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reality
Oct 13, 2011 15:26:27 GMT -5
Post by Ktp1989 on Oct 13, 2011 15:26:27 GMT -5
First of all the public image about Union workers is terrible already and always has been...so that's not an issue to me.
Let's think for a minute the things affected by Ford and the UAW if we go on strike. Ford loses about 17 mil per day based on last years profit...not to mention the view of the company in the publics eyes which is about as good as it has been in a long time. The UAW loses 41,000 union paying members if the company were to replace us with scab workers which works out to about 30 mil per year in lost dues. Also, hiring 40,000 scabs would be a nightmare for quaility and who is going to train them and get up and running on these jobs...management? A strike will be an extreme measure...they will bargain and avoid this. Do you really think Ford is prepared to lose 6 months of production and take a P.R. hit and lose the quailty they are achieving now all for a COLA adjustment or other add on to pass this contract...can't see it.
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Post by ktpelec on Oct 13, 2011 16:06:08 GMT -5
It would be extreme, but Toyota took many years to change it's image also. Now they are #1 in the world without a union work force, you can bet that Ford would like that advantage also.
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reality
Oct 13, 2011 16:09:16 GMT -5
Post by elmer on Oct 13, 2011 16:09:16 GMT -5
We have to draw a line if not as soon as they have a bad Quarter Ford and the UAW will be back asking us to give up those $1500 inflation checks.
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reality
Oct 13, 2011 16:12:29 GMT -5
Post by informer on Oct 13, 2011 16:12:29 GMT -5
Yeah, you have worked your asses off and deserve more, but striking and giving your job up to a scab doesn't get you more! You do get a situation where you have to look for a new job. Do you have a line on a job who is going to hire an ex Ford Union Worker who went on strike? Will you be able to afford to continue to pay your house payment, your auto payment, your loan payments, your credit cards? Will you still be able to pay your kids' tuition? Will you have grocery money? Will your spouse want to stay and deal with life on that level? They are used to the good life... Sadly, those are the things you must think about. The alternative ...stay and fight..with a job!
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reality
Oct 13, 2011 17:02:53 GMT -5
Post by watchmen on Oct 13, 2011 17:02:53 GMT -5
So many of you are ready to risk going on strike and loosing tens of thousands of dollars or job entirely, fords insurance and picking up the crappy UAW insurance, and leave your fate of your career in the same hands as the incompetent IUAW leaders who lead u into this mess to begin with? Do u honestly believe King will lead u out of the strike into a better position that u are now? This current leadership will just make things worse for us if we strike. It's nothing we the membership have done. We are not cowards. What we need is a IUAW leader we believe in. Till then we are at the mercy of the company.
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86gn
New Member
Posts: 43
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reality
Oct 13, 2011 18:15:08 GMT -5
Post by 86gn on Oct 13, 2011 18:15:08 GMT -5
Federal law isn't on our side for a strike, they can hire replacement workers. And doesn't LAP have 17,000 applications from a couple months ago? A strike will not end well for us. Don't you think Ford would love to get rid of the $28 employees? They will have no problem finding workers and they have management to train them. It may take a little while but it can be done. "What would I do If I didn't work at Ford" you would be lucky to find a job making $14.00 an hour with no benefits at a job that really sucks. Then you will be wishing you were still back at Ford everyday. It was only a couple years ago that Ford was losing money, they are making money now but they still have 14 billion in debt. Probably because they didn't take the bailout and a lot of people are buying Ford because of that. Let them get a better foot hold before we start demanding anything back. Also the public perception of the UAW is that we are all over paid greedy asses, by voting this down we will fuel that. Something to think about. Good post, the whole country seems to be against unions and if we did go on strike I dont see any support from the public. Yes people can call them scare tactic's or whatever ya need to say but all of it could happen. Do I think this contract is poor(yes) but workable. I see we get the best deal of the big 3 in this bad economy. I agree that international is a bunch of overpaid dic*s and think we need to find a way to get better leadership in there.
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reality
Oct 13, 2011 18:18:59 GMT -5
Post by ScottR@KTP on Oct 13, 2011 18:18:59 GMT -5
Can the media or average citizen disrespect us anymore than they already do...I don't think so, so fuck them all.
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reality
Oct 13, 2011 20:00:25 GMT -5
Post by imdadd on Oct 13, 2011 20:00:25 GMT -5
Yes, this contract sucks to no end. Unfortunately our fearless leaders have put themselves in a no win situation. We vote down this contract and the UAW goes back to ford and tells them this contract we just negotiated with you sucks can we have a little extra.........please. Al and Bill will laugh them from the room. Uaw has lost credibility and we pay for it.
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reality
Oct 13, 2011 20:19:43 GMT -5
Post by pmooret on Oct 13, 2011 20:19:43 GMT -5
It seems from what I've read that most strikes occur directly from the negotiating table without any sort of agreement being presented to the membership. In our case it is very easy for Ford to say that they had tendered an offer in good faith, an offer which is clearly more lucrative than those of it's competitors. So yes, they can make a case for permanent replacement workers. If anyone agreed with Ford that they tendered an offer in good faith then they should also agree that we should get our concessions back because Ford also tendered the concession agreement in good faith.
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reality
Oct 13, 2011 21:20:46 GMT -5
Post by nvsked1 on Oct 13, 2011 21:20:46 GMT -5
So many of you are ready to risk going on strike and loosing tens of thousands of dollars or job entirely, fords insurance and picking up the crappy UAW insurance, and leave your fate of your career in the same hands as the incompetent IUAW leaders who lead u into this mess to begin with? Do u honestly believe King will lead u out of the strike into a better position that u are now? This current leadership will just make things worse for us if we strike. It's nothing we the membership have done. We are not cowards. What we need is a IUAW leader we believe in. Till then we are at the mercy of the company. EVERYBODY SHOULD READ THIS POST UNTIL YOU HAVE IT MEMORIZED .... Couldn't agree more!!
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reality
Oct 13, 2011 21:26:46 GMT -5
Post by mustcmedrink on Oct 13, 2011 21:26:46 GMT -5
It would be extreme, but Toyota took many years to change it's image also. Now they are #1 in the world without a union work force, you can bet that Ford would like that advantage also. Yes they are #1 in the world, AND their CEO made 1.3 million last year, and yes that includes his bonus of $300k.
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reality
Oct 13, 2011 21:35:06 GMT -5
Post by grimbold on Oct 13, 2011 21:35:06 GMT -5
If anyone agreed with Ford that they tendered an offer in good faith then they should also agree that we should get our concessions back because Ford also tendered the concession agreement in good faith. No, I'm sorry, when everything was suspended for the duration of the last agreement, that was all it meant - suspended for the duration of the last agreement. There was no language to compel Ford to return them to us in the new agreement or at some defined point of profitability or anything. It would have been up to our negotiators to try and get them returned. Apparently they were not able to do so.
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Mr Happy
Novice
Hope your friggin happy with your YES vote:(
Posts: 212
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reality
Oct 13, 2011 21:41:02 GMT -5
Post by Mr Happy on Oct 13, 2011 21:41:02 GMT -5
Scare tactics at it's best what is bad is the international is releasing them. Do you really think the international would call a strike? Let me give you this scenario. We strike company puts in scabs(not going to happen) 1 month later Fiat and GM cry foul because they are not competitve anymore and want their union busted so they to can pay low wages 1 1/2 months later with no big 3 to suck the dues out of..... no more uaw now they bust......
They WILL go back to the table they can't afford not to.
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reality
Oct 13, 2011 23:09:14 GMT -5
Post by TonyV on Oct 13, 2011 23:09:14 GMT -5
I appreciate all of the above posts. Brandonf, welcome to the board sir. After working with you on the line, I will personally vouch for your character. You read the materials, formulate questions, ask the right people, and double check your hunches. You are a great family man and others should learn from your example. I will always miss the in depth conversations I shared with you.
Regardless of this vote sir, you will always have my respect.
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reality
Oct 13, 2011 23:22:45 GMT -5
Post by dave7293 on Oct 13, 2011 23:22:45 GMT -5
Scare tactics at it's best what is bad is the international is releasing them. Do you really think the international would call a strike? Let me give you this scenario. We strike company puts in scabs(not going to happen) 1 month later Fiat and GM cry foul because they are not competitve anymore and want their union busted so they to can pay low wages 1 1/2 months later with no big 3 to suck the dues out of..... no more uaw now they bust...... They WILL go back to the table they can't afford not to. Yep.....I wounder how many they did scare from no to yes? Settles should goto jail for extortion. Extortion - What is it? criminal-law.freeadvice.com/criminal-law/violent.../extortion.htm Sep 28, 2011 - Extortion is a crime in which one person forces another person to do something against his will, generally to give up money or other property, by threat of ...
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reality
Oct 14, 2011 0:33:39 GMT -5
Post by coconut on Oct 14, 2011 0:33:39 GMT -5
no one is going to change my mind. No No and triple No
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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reality
Oct 14, 2011 13:59:45 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2011 13:59:45 GMT -5
Yeah, you have worked your asses off and deserve more, but striking and giving your job up to a scab doesn't get you more! You do get a situation where you have to look for a new job. Do you have a line on a job who is going to hire an ex Ford Union Worker who went on strike? Will you be able to afford to continue to pay your house payment, your auto payment, your loan payments, your credit cards? Will you still be able to pay your kids' tuition? Will you have grocery money? Will your spouse want to stay and deal with life on that level? They are used to the good life... Sadly, those are the things you must think about. The alternative ...stay and fight..with a job! informer? really? your spouse? if your spouse is only with you because you work at ford,she/he will better deal you at the first chance anyway.thats the one thing i am sure wouldnt change. personally i never missed a meal in my pre ford days. i have been on strike before. it was a blast til the day the plant closed.throwing chicken wing bones at the vance security thugs as they drove by. memories.i was younger then, but im still voting no.NO.
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