ccrewdummie
Amateur
Just another face in the crowd
Posts: 169
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Post by ccrewdummie on Nov 13, 2014 14:42:22 GMT -5
wow. Some things never change
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Post by saugerman on Nov 13, 2014 15:07:09 GMT -5
No cussing?are you serious?You are new aren't you ??Haha new and not a clue....lol
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Post by wildcats34 on Nov 13, 2014 20:10:44 GMT -5
Just trying to maintain my innocence. Equal pay equal work!!! How ever they come to that is fine with me. If that meams me losing my job then im fine with it. I was looking for a job when i found this one. How a union and its employees can be ok with two tiers of pay or let it continue in the future is beyond me.
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Post by Ex-metalman on Nov 13, 2014 20:34:47 GMT -5
I'm totally against 2 tiers ..but it's their co.And we want to get a raise next contract reguardless..Still don't see why people bitch when they agreed to work here?
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Post by legacywannabe on Nov 13, 2014 21:12:48 GMT -5
Nobody should complain at all right now. If you don't like your pay at 15 an hour or at 28 an hour and you haven't had a raise in 10 years. Either shut up and quit or turn a resolution sheet in stating your concern for a change.
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Post by lap65 on Nov 13, 2014 21:57:07 GMT -5
Problem with building more different models is a big difference between now and then. There are more parts on these vehicles now and there is limited space to store stock. Back then there wasn't a million different color combinations on interior trims. So even though the line is capable of running different models, it's not necessarily something that can be done because of the overload of stock. 2 tier is a cheaper way of building cars. If Ford ever has to get rid of 2 tier they will do it at the cost of sacrificing jobs. It will be cheaper for them to have fewer people and run more overtime with faster line speeds. How could i forget that, i deal with it every day. LOL, you are exactly right about parts storage, we are busting at the seams now.
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Post by Grimace on Nov 14, 2014 5:32:38 GMT -5
"explorer, ranger, Mazda Navajo, mercury mountaineer", Don't forget the 2 door explorer sport, eddie bauer, and 2 versions of the sport trac, we built all of these with fewer employees, and line speeds so fast we had to put deer whistles on the units so nobody would get run over. we had multiple frames, multiple engine combinations, multi combination drive trains and axle ratios, multi colored interiors, and our seats were partially assembled in plant. The air guns we used literally lifted people off the ground and tossed the users. (Remember the body bolt back up gun?). When the chains weren't fast enough I was instructed to shove trucks down the line by hand on the moonroof line every day for over a month, in the summer. Most of the drive train parts were about 1/3 bigger and heavier even though we had fewer hoists. This was all before the far superior job safety ergonomic standards that I'm happy we have now. Our quality and production were superior to any other ford plant. We hand installed every seat. Hurt yourself before you got your 90days in?, 90% chance you didn't work here anymore. Go to medical before ya got your 90 and get fired?, its true. I had a new hire woman with a broken arm on my upgrade that had broken her arm on the job 2 weeks before summer shutdown just trying to make it till the holiday, she was hand decking 4x4 spindles (with rotors). Things are better now for everybody than they were. Did we "earn it" like you did? no. Am I upset at your pay rate, fuck yes. Did anybody think it was ok? No! The concessions passed the 2nd time because we were told we were going to lose our own jobs. We did it to protect the retiree pensions as much as possible. We did it because the president of our company went before congress and embarrassingly asked America to help out GM and Dodge because without the suppliers that we shared, we would be closed. Unemployed. We did it because our national union leaders told us we had no choice, we originally voted no. Did you get screwed?, yes. YOU knew the score when you signed up and 90% of us want you to have the same as we have. 10% of the posters on here are giving you shit, please don't piss off everybody else.
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Post by whiskerfish1 on Nov 14, 2014 7:10:48 GMT -5
"explorer, ranger, Mazda Navajo, mercury mountaineer", Don't forget the 2 door explorer sport, eddie bauer, and 2 versions of the sport trac, we built all of these with fewer employees, and line speeds so fast we had to put deer whistles on the units so nobody would get run over. we had multiple frames, multiple engine combinations, multi combination drive trains and axle ratios, multi colored interiors, and our seats were partially assembled in plant. The air guns we used literally lifted people off the ground and tossed the users. (Remember the body bolt back up gun?). When the chains weren't fast enough I was instructed to shove trucks down the line by hand on the moonroof line every day for over a month, in the summer. Most of the drive train parts were about 1/3 bigger and heavier even though we had fewer hoists. This was all before the far superior job safety ergonomic standards that I'm happy we have now. Our quality and production were superior to any other ford plant. We hand installed every seat. Hurt yourself before you got your 90days in?, 90% chance you didn't work here anymore. Go to medical before ya got your 90 and get fired?, its true. I had a new hire woman with a broken arm on my upgrade that had broken her arm on the job 2 weeks before summer shutdown just trying to make it till the holiday, she was hand decking 4x4 spindles (with rotors). Things are better now for everybody than they were. Did we "earn it" like you did? no. Am I upset at your pay rate, fuck yes. Did anybody think it was ok? No! The concessions passed the 2nd time because we were told we were going to lose our own jobs. We did it to protect the retiree pensions as much as possible. We did it because the president of our company went before congress and embarrassingly asked America to help out GM and Dodge because without the suppliers that we shared, we would be closed. Unemployed. We did it because our national union leaders told us we had no choice, we originally voted no. Did you get screwed?, yes. YOU knew the score when you signed up and 90% of us want you to have the same as we have. 10% of the posters on here are giving you shit, please don't piss off everybody else. wildcat 34 ...... Like I said before, be grateful for what was given for us 2 tiers !!!! Well spoken Grimace !!!!
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Post by calvin@ktp on Nov 14, 2014 7:17:13 GMT -5
Grimace...remember I traded jobs with Shaggy because he broke his hand and couldn't use the B&C install gun with his hand in a cast. He worked with a cast on one hand so he wouldn't be fired before his 90 days.
Keep in mind that all of us started out making 70% of full pay. When I was hired it was I think a 18 months. Then it was changed to 3 years. Now it will be at least 5 years. Everyone eventually will be at full pay when their seniority puts them in the top 80%.
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Post by wildcats34 on Nov 14, 2014 10:44:22 GMT -5
Dont mean to piss anybody off by my comments. Probably have though. My bad on that. I get too worked up over all this stuff. What's gonna happen in the next contract nobody knows. ( maybe a few at the top do) Just have to play the cards that are dealt!
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Post by wildcats34 on Nov 14, 2014 10:52:29 GMT -5
Good read grimace! Yeah I need to look outside the box at the big picture and how it affects everyone. $17 would be good if I was 25 and single. Just dont do much with a wife two kids and a mortgage. My problem is if I think it I say it. Probably ought to work on that a bit.
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Post by Ex-metalman on Nov 14, 2014 12:20:06 GMT -5
For real I'm for anybody that works here.All this crap on here is just for fun..I hope they drop the 2 tier bull crap and pay all of us equal..Won't happen tho.that would be going backwards for Ford,only people that go back are us the UAW.I hope we at least ACT like we have some balls next sept..Not for striking unless it's a last option, but at least get us some shit back we deserve..Hell it's been too long ,I don't think people understand how much the cost of everyday shit has gone up since our last raise..
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Post by Grimace on Nov 14, 2014 15:02:43 GMT -5
I remember your sacrifice Calvin, voluntary and unrequested. Impressed the shit out of me.
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Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2014 17:50:27 GMT -5
I remember your sacrifice Calvin, voluntary and unrequested. Impressed the shit out of me. Those were the good ole days! New hires came in at $13 or so an hour and they had each others backs as well as most full time workers. Someone would get hurt and afraid to go to medical because of less than 90 days and "teamwork" solved everything until they healed up. We swapped a few jobs around without our foreman knowing, for about 3 days until a new hire healed from a sprained wrist back in 2002. I only hope and pray our Union can draw us all back together as one and fight for us like the good ole days.
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Post by saugerman on Nov 14, 2014 22:52:17 GMT -5
I remember your sacrifice Calvin, voluntary and unrequested. Impressed the shit out of me. Those were the good ole days! New hires came in at $13 or so an hour and they had each others backs as well as most full time workers. Someone would get hurt and afraid to go to medical because of less than 90 days and "teamwork" solved everything until they healed up. We swapped a few jobs around without our foreman knowing, for about 3 days until a new hire healed from a sprained wrist back in 2002. I only hope and pray our Union can draw us all back together as one and fight for us like the good ole days. The new ones don't have a clue.....we did have each others back...the only other time in my life that I felt that way was when I served with uncle sam....now it's nothing more but divide and conquer
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Post by lap65 on Nov 15, 2014 15:46:28 GMT -5
Thanks Grimace for enlightening our new brothers & sisters on "earning" it & reminding some of us older ones, you forget about some of those things after some time goes by if your not careful, a lot of people would have never made it without help from the older workers when they hired in, including me, I was ready to quit after about 3 weeks. But the reason they were so willing to help is the people they were helping weren't complaining about what they deserved all the time & were actually trying to do their best, so many now are just trying to get out of work.
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ccrewdummie
Amateur
Just another face in the crowd
Posts: 169
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Post by ccrewdummie on Nov 15, 2014 16:07:21 GMT -5
My first 90 days were hell. I fractured my rib 3 rd night on the line. I was trying to seed the rear bumper in and the engineers were still working on the gap because it was to tight therefore making it next to impossible to seed the panel. Fortunately for me I had a legacy working with me and she tried to make the job less painful on me. I couldn't go to medical in fear of losing my job. So I had to just deal with it. Then I got in the cross fire between a QL and utility. QL needed my help and as I went to help, the utility grabbed my arm and jerked me backwards. Again had to keep my mouth shut in fear of losing my job. Almost every girl that started was being verbally sexually harassed by the Supervisor. His opening speech..... I have my favorites. You do right by me I will take care of you. You f&$k me over and you won't be here. I needed this job more then I needed my pride at that time. He eventually got busted and no longer works there. My whole point??? It didn't just happen back in the day. I'm going on 3 yrs and have met a bunch of great people. Legacy and 2 tier.
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Post by william on Nov 20, 2014 7:09:50 GMT -5
Holy crap two years and on fork.Wow
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Post by william on Nov 20, 2014 7:24:38 GMT -5
Been here 22 years and its not the same as it was.Kinda sad.
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Post by lap65 on Nov 21, 2014 10:51:15 GMT -5
Holy crap two years and on fork.Wow There are people that hired in off the street when we came back, that started on a fork.........and they complain about their job, don't have a clue about the line.
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Post by dah1958 on Nov 21, 2014 14:51:10 GMT -5
I do not think most transfers feel that way. I think most people are just ready to be one plant, transfers , native, two tier and legacy. We all have to work and the constant negativity makes it suck! I think most people are ready just to make this work. Don't worry about what them people say LAP is not going anywhere they can take their butts back where they came from if they don't like it at LAP us Lapers really don't care go home congrats on your job at Ford
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ccrewdummie
Amateur
Just another face in the crowd
Posts: 169
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Post by ccrewdummie on Nov 22, 2014 6:38:58 GMT -5
I don't worry to much about what other people think or say. I love it at LAP and grateful to have a job. Unfortunately most people are right about the 2tier. Mostly just the younger crowd. You have complainers from every generation but some of these kids come in thinking it is going to be "easy" money and have the attitude that they deserve more then what they have.while they are on their cell phone playing games ect... It is their first job so they have nothing to compare it to. I don't believe 2 tier will ever go away so I hope Ford will at least give back the things Legacy gave up and was promised back. I know I will eventually roll over to full pay. May be years down the road but if we fight to get back what legacy lost then I have something to look forward to when I do roll over to tier 1, minus the pension.
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Post by wildcats34 on Nov 22, 2014 10:26:28 GMT -5
Roll over? Like that will happen. Most people on this this forum believe that will never happen. At least that's what was said in there posts. Insourced jobs keeps bringing the numbers down.
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Post by saugerman on Nov 22, 2014 11:20:47 GMT -5
why would ford want to do that? no shortage of profits....and the newbies keep rolling in....Two tier is here to stay..hell the Japanese have been doing it for decades...and before you get your undies in knots...no I didn't vote for it nor do I like it....and I don't think the new hires will ever see our pay grade or any of the other things we once had.
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Post by wildcats34 on Nov 22, 2014 12:11:50 GMT -5
My point exactly! Seems to be most peoples thoughts on the topic.
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Post by saugerman on Nov 22, 2014 14:20:23 GMT -5
if only the union had the same enthusiasm for us as they do VW...we might be in a better position than we are in...and if I'm right GM goes up for contract first...doesn't help in the slightest
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Post by saugerman on Nov 22, 2014 14:24:02 GMT -5
My point exactly! Seems to be most peoples thoughts on the topic. don't think that the so called legacy's will be getting over either next contract....It's gonna be a big shit sandwich and we are all gonna get a bite...
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Post by Ex-metalman on Nov 22, 2014 15:56:20 GMT -5
If I'm the Co I'm trying to get the union to up the percentage of lower tier workers for the next several contracts.2023 will be a big retirement ,and 2024,2025.Im hoping for early out or buyout during this period.And I hope they move people up.But I wouldn't bank on it..I heard a rumor of possibly having to work a certain number of years before moving up regardless of how many people retire..
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Post by wildcats34 on Nov 23, 2014 4:57:28 GMT -5
I have a feeling im in that line to accept a shit sandwich myself!
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Post by laptier2 on Nov 27, 2014 7:23:17 GMT -5
I'm hungry too lol
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