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Post by laptier2 on Jul 17, 2014 13:13:42 GMT -5
I've only had one non union job in my life, Humana there turnover rate is ridiculous. I mean a woman literally lost her job because she was allergic to latex ballons etc... Point being bet ur ass if it was a union job shed stille be there!!!! Non union jobs can basically fire u and make shit up to avoid lawsuits, there not idiots at those places. Dynacraft, another one (I never worked there) but knew at least 5 people that had 10+ years and laid off while they just hired in 30 or so people and they lay off the ones that are making $20 plus a hour!!!!! Were they shitty workers I have no clue never worked with any of them but I as said earlier if they were union well I'd say they prob would be in there 16+ years with the sorry ass non union co. Yeah we can bet each and every one of you all wouldn't rather work at Toyota because some of these ungrateful lazy ass people here would have been terminated long ago!!!!! A lot was given up I know I've heard and heard all about but in reality it's prob gonna get even worse that's what these damn giant corporations worry about is how much of a bonus they get in any possible way. Gotta think really they just worry about costs!!!
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Post by rrisley on Jul 17, 2014 13:27:58 GMT -5
let me explain no dog in the fight When you hired in Ford told you what you where going to get and you still have that or more right? We older ones reopened the contract and gave up concessions to keep ford alive..so we don't.. When we voted on this matter were where you sitting in the union hall? ? thats right you were not there All of the older employees had to go home and tell our families that we hoped we did the right thing and hopefully we would be still there afterwards or at least sitting on the bubble..you did not. We have done 10 years plus without a wage increase (unlike Ford Management or our union) you have not. While two tier does suck and believe us older ones we don't like it either it is here to stay for the foreseeable future..at the time it was the only way to keep Ford solvent (and for For family to keep controlling interest stock..we found that out later) you did not. It was this sacrifice that kept the doors open and you new hires a way to get in the door; again you were not there. I am sorry CAT put it up your ass but that's not Ford nor does it pertain to Ford...sorry. So yes we older ones are tired of empty promises by our union and want to make them accountable for what we feel we want and need in fairness while everyone but the line worker sees the money....So I stand by my comment you have no dog in the fight...It will come around for the new hires...but lets do the right thing for the ones that made it happen and the retirees that did so much before us only to have the great UAW squander it with stupid crap through mismanagement and cronyism.(So don't drink their koolaid thinking the UAW has godlike powers and will do the right thing by us) they haven't so far. . I'm not saying the union is perfect by any means, however, I do believe that withdrawing from the union isn't the answer and is only going to serve to weaken us.
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Post by laptier2 on Jul 17, 2014 13:29:39 GMT -5
Btw me saying I've heard and heard all about is not sarcasm or being a ass, I could not fathom going without a raise for 10 years regardless if I made $28 or $30 a hour!!!!!
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Post by cal50 on Jul 17, 2014 15:30:14 GMT -5
Again, to deny there is a real, well documented, and successful effort, by very powerful individuals to weaken or eliminate unions in the US is absurd... Try re-reading & thinking about what I said: Threats to join a union and threats to not join or form a union is two way street and not mutually exclusive. You can cherry pick parties on both sides of a pro or anti union mindset. The bottom line is people are free to organize but yet many do not becasue THEY feel the return is not worth the outlay. You are trying to blame the lack of union participation solely on some exterior force and not the workers choice. If people truly want to form or join a union they can, its when they CHOOSE not to the blame game starts.
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Post by ktpelec on Jul 17, 2014 16:42:24 GMT -5
RTW is just the latest successful tactic used against unionized workers. As I posted, it happened to Steel workers, Textile workers and many other powerful unions decades before RTW.
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Post by cal50 on Jul 17, 2014 17:53:46 GMT -5
RTW is just the latest successful tactic used against unionized workers. As I posted, it happened to Steel workers, Textile workers and many other powerful unions decades before RTW. Giving people their own choice is a tactic ? Used against union worker ? Explain how giving individual workers a choice is using something against those same workers? Plain & simple IF the membership is happy with the representation they receive for the dues charged then RTW laws have zero impact on the unions head count. Now if some of those same people feel they are not getting a worthwhile return for the amount of dues paid then look for those individuates to opt out. If the membership is happy then RTW laws will have little impact, if unhappy the worker now has a voice and the union has to listen . The union tossed out one of its principals of equal pay for equal work.....as long as those 2nd tier or lower paid worked paid dues. Want to guess how those people will decide when given the choice? Its similar to getting crappy food or service from a restaurant, it soon goes out of business because it fails to serve its customers. The UAW needs a wake up call and should start serving its membership better because when people have personal choice instead of forced membership the results might be like the bad restaurant.
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Post by justaworker on Jul 17, 2014 18:43:30 GMT -5
RTW is just the latest successful tactic used against unionized workers. As I posted, it happened to Steel workers, Textile workers and many other powerful unions decades before RTW. Giving people a choice is not a tactic.. Its a choice. I hate the iuaw with an intense passion, but we have to have a union in this work environment. But let's never, ever, act like having a choice is ultimately bad for the workers.
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Post by cal50 on Jul 18, 2014 12:04:40 GMT -5
RTW is just the latest successful tactic used against unionized workers. As I posted, it happened to Steel workers, Textile workers and many other powerful unions decades before RTW. Giving people a choice is not a tactic.. Its a choice. I hate the iuaw with an intense passion, but we have to have a union in this work environment. But let's never, ever, act like having a choice is ultimately bad for the workers. Nailed it. Going back several years if there was an issue or problem I felt the union had the ability to get involved and make something happen. Today it "feels" like we are getting double teamed from the company AND the union. I expect that from the companies perspective but not a willing participant from the union that we are paying for.
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Post by ktpelec on Jul 18, 2014 13:23:12 GMT -5
I understand that you "feel" that way... but how did this happen? What happened over the last few decades to put this once powerful union that could bring auto production in the US to a stop? Contractual issues/language? Foreign car manufacturers? The loss of hundreds of thousands of good paying manufacturing jobs in the US? As far as RTW, if you don't want to belong to the union fine... but one shouldn't get to expect the same pay and benefits that members have.
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Post by cal50 on Jul 18, 2014 16:54:07 GMT -5
I understand that you "feel" that way... but how did this happen? What happened over the last few decades to put this once powerful union that could bring auto production in the US to a stop? Contractual issues/language? Foreign car manufacturers? The loss of hundreds of thousands of good paying manufacturing jobs in the US? As far as RTW, if you don't want to belong to the union fine... but one shouldn't get to expect the same pay and benefits that members have. Again you miss the obvious answer stated before that union/s became self serving and hurt themselves. The UAW gave themselves numerous black eyes on the workers tab & still doing so. scottrlap.proboards.com/thread/7990RTW is what it is and I have no animosity for or against it. With the current IUAW / UAW representation our wages & benefits have decreased and our dues just went up 25%. Exactly what is the membership gaining with that 25% increase? (See self serving mentioned above / 1st sentence)
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Post by kwlap on Jul 19, 2014 10:01:39 GMT -5
RTW will make the IUAW accountable.Time to put away the golf clubs and suntan lotion and do something for your paying members.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2014 19:58:10 GMT -5
RTW will make the IUAW accountable.Time to put away the golf clubs and suntan lotion and do something for your paying members. Don't forget: Coming in one hour late and leaving 2 hours early and taking 2 hour lunches. Riding bikes with the mayor while getting paid to be in the office. Getting paid every Sunday 12 hours when not even in the plant or union hall. Spending more time on phone with family and friends instead of taking care of your people. And Im sure there is a lot more you can add on.
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Post by saugerman on Jul 19, 2014 22:06:25 GMT -5
RTW will make the IUAW accountable.Time to put away the golf clubs and suntan lotion and do something for your paying members. Don't forget: Coming in one hour late and leaving 2 hours early and taking 2 hour lunches. Riding bikes with the mayor while getting paid to be in the office. Getting paid every Sunday 12 hours when not even in the plant or union hall. Spending more time on phone with family and friends instead of taking care of your people. And Im sure there is a lot more you can add on. could not of said it better
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Post by new2ford on Jul 19, 2014 23:15:20 GMT -5
Also, going to Florida every year for "Summer School" courtesy of the membership, while the things we voted on in the contract - wifi, clothing voucher, new gym etc., remain words in a useless document.
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Post by tiger66 on Jul 21, 2014 3:28:37 GMT -5
If the union is doing their job they should have absolute zero-fear of RTW. Next contract is going to be huge on this union!!!!!
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Post by Bcrew4life on Jul 21, 2014 20:11:20 GMT -5
How could anyone be dumb enough to believe RTW could be anything but disastrous for all working people?! RTW is just another right wing plot to destroy unions once and for all. Without the UAW we would ALL be fucked!!! Ford would take away hard fought for benefits,lower wages and anything else they want to do, and we could do absolutely nothing about it. I wonder how many people that are bitching about the UAW even bother to vote?
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Post by cal50 on Jul 22, 2014 0:54:54 GMT -5
RTW is just another right wing plot to destroy unions once and for all. Total union membership of all unions in the USA is around 7% total. Are you really suggesting the republican party controls 93% of the work force union participation ? The only "threat" RTW poses is giving individual workers a voice / choice that the union HAS to listen to.
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Post by laptier2 on Jul 22, 2014 4:21:15 GMT -5
How could anyone be dumb enough to believe RTW could be anything but disastrous for all working people?! RTW is just another right wing plot to destroy unions once and for all. Without the UAW we would ALL be fucked!!! Ford would take away hard fought for benefits,lower wages and anything else they want to do, and we could do absolutely nothing about it. I wonder how many people that are bitching about the UAW even bother to vote? Right on Brother!!!!!
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Post by axleman on Jul 22, 2014 5:18:46 GMT -5
How could anyone be dumb enough to believe RTW could be anything but disastrous for all working people?! RTW is just another right wing plot to destroy unions once and for all. Without the UAW we would ALL be fucked!!! Ford would take away hard fought for benefits,lower wages and anything else they want to do, and we could do absolutely nothing about it. I wonder how many people that are bitching about the UAW even bother to vote? Ford would take away hard fought for benefits?? They already did,gave themselves a raise, and the IUAW did nothing but raise OUR dues. So what has the IUAW done for US,the membership latley but screw us. RTW will hold their feet to the fire, and that scares the hell out of them thats way they fight so hard against it. If they do their job (IUAW) they have nothing to fear. And yes I vote every time.
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Post by fordlapworker1993 on Jul 22, 2014 6:34:01 GMT -5
How could anyone be dumb enough to believe RTW could be anything but disastrous for all working people?! RTW is just another right wing plot to destroy unions once and for all. Without the UAW we would ALL be fucked!!! Ford would take away hard fought for benefits,lower wages and anything else they want to do, and we could do absolutely nothing about it. I wonder how many people that are bitching about the UAW even bother to vote? Ford would take away hard fought for benefits?? They already did,gave themselves a raise, and the IUAW did nothing but raise OUR dues. So what has the IUAW done for US,the membership latley but screw us. RTW will hold their feet to the fire, and that scares the hell out of them thats way they fight so hard against it. If they do their job (IUAW) they have nothing to fear. And yes I vote every time. And how bad do you think it would be without the UAW? Nobody is happy with the union right now but signing out of the union is not the answer!
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Post by axleman on Jul 22, 2014 9:10:19 GMT -5
Ford would take away hard fought for benefits?? They already did,gave themselves a raise, and the IUAW did nothing but raise OUR dues. So what has the IUAW done for US,the membership latley but screw us. RTW will hold their feet to the fire, and that scares the hell out of them thats way they fight so hard against it. If they do their job (IUAW) they have nothing to fear. And yes I vote every time. And how bad do you think it would be without the UAW? Nobody is happy with the union right now but signing out of the union is not the answer! Never said I wanted to do away with the UAW. I just want them to be more accountable to the membership, the way it's set up now IUAW isn't accountable, alot of uaw officials want to go "international" so they toe the line so to speak and nothing changes. If you the local member control the "purse" IUAW will start to listen. Money is power people it's time to take our union back. RTW will force the union to work for their membership instead of useing us as a "cash cow" for all their political crap and membership drives that have accomplished very little for our hard earned dollars.If the union takes care of the membership workers in non-union shops will hear and see the benefits of having a union. VW workers saw no real benefit and voted accordingly, and the BS about the Koch bros. and politicians scaring workers is just BS from a failed attempt by our IUAW to unionise a plant that wanted to be unionised. The VW workers aren't stupid they saw no benefits of a union. That bad perception is the IUAW's fault not the politicians. I just want to see a strong UAW again, thats all.
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Post by Ex-metalman on Jul 22, 2014 12:22:38 GMT -5
Toyota isn't union and they are way ahead of us and FORD on all fronts..But I still think that the UNION is the only way to go.
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Post by lap65 on Jul 22, 2014 12:37:47 GMT -5
Toyota isn't union and they are way ahead of us and FORD on all fronts..But I still think that the UNION is the only way to go. My brother works at Toyota. They are about even with us on many fronts behind on many others.
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Post by Bcrew4life on Jul 22, 2014 15:14:46 GMT -5
If the UAW wasn't in this Kentucky Toyota employees would be at the same level of pay & benefits as the automakers in the south. And that isn't even close to what they're getting now. That's a fact!
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Post by lap65 on Jul 22, 2014 18:53:27 GMT -5
If the UAW wasn't in this Kentucky Toyota employees would be at the same level of pay & benefits as the automakers in the south. And that isn't even close to what they're getting now. That's a fact! exactly
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Post by Ex-metalman on Jul 25, 2014 4:37:14 GMT -5
IFS a BIG word!!!
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Post by Grimace on Jul 25, 2014 12:33:30 GMT -5
" and the BS about the Koch bros." BS about the Koch bros? Forbes article: Koch Brothers Behind Wisconsin Effort To Kill Public Unions As the nation focuses on the efforts of Governor Scott Walker to take away collective bargaining rights from public employees in Wisconsin, new information is coming to light that reveals what is truly going on here. Mother Jones is reporting that much of the funding behind the Walker for Governor campaign came from none other than uber-conservatives, the infamous Koch Brothers. What’s more, the plan to kill the unions is right out of the Koch Brothers play book.Koch-backed groups like Americans for Prosperity, the Cato Institute, the Competitive Enterprise Institute, and the Reason Foundation have long taken a very antagonistic view toward public-sector unions. Several of these groups have urged the eradication of these unions. The Kochs also invited Mark Mix, president of the National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation, an anti-union outfit, to a June 2010 confab in Aspen, Colorado; Via Mother Jones If you are reluctant to believe that this is a coordinated attack, consider this- This afternoon, Marty Beil, executive director of the Wisconsin Public Workers Union, sent a message to the Governor’s office agreeing to the cuts to pension & welfare benefits sought by Walker in his bill. The governor’s response was “nothing doing.” He wants the whole kit and kaboodle – the end of the collective bargaining rights of the public unions. As noted in my earlier post, this is, indeed, the first shot in the final battle to end unionism in America. UPDATE: The Americans for Prosperity group, a Tea Party group that is a Koch Brothers front, has put up a website and petition called www.standwithwalker.com. The website attacks all collective bargaining – not just for public employees’ unions. Americans for Prosperity is also organizing a rally tomorrow in Wisconsin to support Gov. Walker. Why are the Koch Brothers so interested in Wisconsin? They are a major business player in the state. This from Think Progress: Koch owns a coal company subsidiary with facilities in Green Bay, Manitowoc, Ashland and Sheboygan; six timber plants throughout the state; and a large network of pipelines in Wisconsin. While Koch controls much of the infrastructure in the state, they have laid off workers to boost profits. At a time when Koch Industries owners David and Charles Koch awarded themselves an extra $11 billion of income from the company, Koch slashed jobs at their Green Bay plant: Officials at Georgia-Pacific said the company is laying off 158 workers at its Day Street plant because out-of-date equipment at the facility is being replaced with newer, more-efficient equipment. The company said much of the new, papermaking equipment will be automated. [...] Malach tells FOX 11 that the layoffs are not because of a drop in demand. In fact, Malach said demand is high for the bath tissue and napkins manufactured at the plant. You really have to wonder how long it will take for Tea Party devotees to realize just how badly they are being used.
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Post by dowhat12 on Jul 25, 2014 15:17:26 GMT -5
Toyota isn't union and they are way ahead of us and FORD on all fronts..But I still think that the UNION is the only way to go. My brother works at Toyota. They are about even with us on many fronts behind on many others. Care to explain what you mean by Toyota being way ahead on all fronts.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2014 16:33:50 GMT -5
Koch brothers may hate unions. Doesn't mean all Republicans hate unions. Our union is also supported by socialist groups. Hmm, socialism: Part of socialism is not getting to vote for a president. Point of this post is that our union dues are being pissed away. The Republicans aren't the ones pissing our money away.
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Post by justaworker on Jul 25, 2014 17:44:20 GMT -5
Its always alot easier to point your finger and try to convince yourself, and everybody else, that others are the reason for your problems. It's not easy to look in the mirror. To see your mistakes, and try to learn from them and move forward.
It's time for the union to look in that mirror. See their errors, and realize what their main purpose is to begin with. Their job is not to sustain themselves in prosperity, but to empower us.. The dues paying members... They are supposed to be there for us, yet they have come to believe that it is us that is supposed to be their for them.
Iuaw, wake up. Look in that mirror. Do you like what you have become? Then splash some water on your battered face, regroup, and get back to representing your base.
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