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Post by autoslave502 on Aug 6, 2014 11:53:59 GMT -5
Finally..some tier 1 admitting they were fooled rather than lying and saying they voted the two tier down.amazing.
Y does it seem that tier 2 has to suffer because tier 1 employees have been making $30/HR for a decade.yet most of u live out of your means and weren't able to save anything? Its not our fault u pissed your money away. Lets face it. If any tier 1 needs a raise.notice I said need.not want!. If they need a raise its because there own fuckups.not ours.u all honestly think its fair that we work same hours.we sweat.we bleed the same as u. Yet we should b pit on the backburner.get real
Mark my words tier 2 employees. Tier 1 will sell us out for a .50cent raise.none of them give 2 shits about the future of Ford.they only care about what's happening now at Ford and themselves.
All I can say is this.come September 2015. U better get your strike shoes on!!
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Post by gator on Aug 6, 2014 12:16:06 GMT -5
Tier 1 or tier 2, regardless don't forget, yes Ford wanted the lower wages but they also wanted all of this fighting and arguing within because of the separation. You can bet they will use that to their advantage come contract time. Be very cautious of the dangling carrot for both tiers, Ford loves a split vote it shows strife. I have worked at a 2 tier company before and no good comes from the separation.
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Post by justaworker on Aug 6, 2014 12:18:55 GMT -5
Oh, I voted against two tier. It was concessions we were lied to about. And there will be no strike, that's a guarantee. Also, there will always be a two tier system. I will say again, if that's a deal breaker for you... Get out.
Hate to be negative, really do. But the days of the auto industry being great paying jobs with great benefits are over.
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Post by ihatemyjob on Aug 6, 2014 12:31:51 GMT -5
Oh, I voted against two tier. It was concessions we were lied to about. And there will be no strike, that's a guarantee. Also, there will always be a two tier system. I will say again, if that's a deal breaker for you... Get out. Hate to be negative, really do. But the days of the auto industry being great paying jobs with great benefits are over. Yep and on top of that. When the two tier was voted in everyone was terrified of losing their job. And anyone who thinks employees were worried about future employees at that point is an idiot. Tier 2 can piss and moan all they want, they didn't sit thru that town hall meeting where we were told we were being laid off and they didn't have to get up that morning and watch the news when Ford announced what plants they were closing. They crying about something they never had while the legacy employees had to worry about losing what we had.
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Post by antbanks on Aug 6, 2014 12:41:56 GMT -5
DIVIDE AND CONQUER, that's what FORD MOTOR COMPANY wants.
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Post by justaworker on Aug 6, 2014 12:42:45 GMT -5
We went through a lot during those years. Newer employees haven't had to do that. But, they will. It all comes in cycles, the day will come when sales tank and we lose a shift. That's how this industry works.
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Post by wildcats34 on Aug 6, 2014 13:30:51 GMT -5
Well at least if it goes through a down cycle and we lose jobs, I won't be losing much. The money two tier makes can be made else where. Maybe more. I stay for the prospect of making decent money one day. You speak of town halls and plant closures. Scare tactics! I believe ford had a master plan going forward and dont really think concessions you all voted mattered to the extent you all think. Bottom line is as a whole ford built a very average product. And in some models below average. Yes the recession was going to hurt all! But look at the product line now versus ten years ago. I think they realized they had to make improvements. They did starting with ford edge.
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Post by antbanks on Aug 6, 2014 13:35:12 GMT -5
Anyone out there willing to let FORD MOTOR COMPANY take more from us.
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Post by ihatemyjob on Aug 6, 2014 14:07:30 GMT -5
Well at least if it goes through a down cycle and we lose jobs, I won't be losing much. The money two tier makes can be made else where. Maybe more. I stay for the prospect of making decent money one day. You speak of town halls and plant closures. Scare tactics! I believe ford had a master plan going forward and dont really think concessions you all voted mattered to the extent you all think. Bottom line is as a whole ford built a very average product. And in some models below average. Yes the recession was going to hurt all! But look at the product line now versus ten years ago. I think they realized they had to make improvements. They did starting with ford edge. Ask St. Louis, Minnesota and the other closed plants about the scare tactics. Ask the people who didn't make the cut to stay on the one shift that ran for a year at LAP and got laid off about scare tactics. It wasn't just scare tactics. That's why LAP has transfers from 50 plants. Plants closed and people lost their jobs. And had Ron Gettlefinger not been IUAW president at that time then LAP would likely be closed today because it was on the list as a possible closure. So you can think what you want, but those are the facts.
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Post by saugerman on Aug 6, 2014 14:13:48 GMT -5
Finally..some tier 1 admitting they were fooled rather than lying and saying they voted the two tier down.amazing. Y does it seem that tier 2 has to suffer because tier 1 employees have been making $30/HR for a decade.yet most of u live out of your means and weren't able to save anything? Its not our fault u pissed your money away. Lets face it. If any tier 1 needs a raise.notice I said need.not want!. If they need a raise its because there own fuckups.not ours.u all honestly think its fair that we work same hours.we sweat.we bleed the same as u. Yet we should b pit on the backburner.get real Mark my words tier 2 employees. Tier 1 will sell us out for a .50cent raise.none of them give 2 shits about the future of Ford.they only care about what's happening now at Ford and themselves. All I can say is this.come September 2015. U better get your strike shoes on!! No one told you about what you where in for for? and you STILL took the job?
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jsf
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Post by jsf on Aug 6, 2014 14:51:23 GMT -5
I know some people who sat in on the important meetings about our plants future at the time and know for a fact our plant was slated to close. Mark Fields came here and the last thing he told our union leaders and plant manager at that time was how he couldn't stress enough for LAP to not be a burden to Ford right now. So we went without heat in the building water and electric rationing couldn't even get anything from general stores to run production all to keep LAP in the black. It was a scary time here at LAP and almost everyone here had 10years or more in so I know we all did what we had to do to save this plant and our jobs. All the two tier people I know would do the same thing in the future to save your jobs if it comes to that point again. If not for the concessions we made and Gettlefinger not being from this plant and doing what we did to keep this plant in the black this plant would not be here today not only for the legacy people but for the two teir employees also... I've been here going on 23 years and I know That is the facts....
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Post by Bcrew4life on Aug 6, 2014 14:51:53 GMT -5
Finally..some tier 1 admitting they were fooled rather than lying and saying they voted the two tier down.amazing. Y does it seem that tier 2 has to suffer because tier 1 employees have been making $30/HR for a decade.yet most of u live out of your means and weren't able to save anything? Its not our fault u pissed your money away. Lets face it. If any tier 1 needs a raise.notice I said need.not want!. If they need a raise its because there own fuckups.not ours.u all honestly think its fair that we work same hours.we sweat.we bleed the same as u. Yet we should b pit on the backburner.get real Mark my words tier 2 employees. Tier 1 will sell us out for a .50cent raise.none of them give 2 shits about the future of Ford.they only care about what's happening now at Ford and themselves. All I can say is this.come September 2015. U better get your strike shoes on!! Me & most legacy employees feel the tier 2 pay and benefits suck but you did agree to them when you hired on. Hopefully you will see an increase in pay come next contract, I'd be willing to give up a dollar an hour (but no more & no benefits lost) to help.
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Post by wildcats34 on Aug 6, 2014 15:27:16 GMT -5
I would be willing to see an $11 increase in pay before anybody else gets a raise.
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Post by wildcats34 on Aug 6, 2014 15:36:55 GMT -5
Jsf I'm sure there a lot of truth to that. But I would say mark fields did that through out the ford system. And I'm sure theres not a 100 percent honesty in everything he told you all. I would say if it took telling a lie to save a buck it would be done.That being said I imagine they were very trying times. Look ford accomplished the division they wanted in the union. Until there equal pay for equal work the infighting and bitching will get worse. Its just going to be harder for you to get a raise with out bumping us up.
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jsf
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Post by jsf on Aug 6, 2014 15:56:13 GMT -5
Jsf I'm sure there a lot of truth to that. But I would say mark fields did that through out the ford system. And I'm sure theres not a 100 percent honesty in everything he told you all. I would say if it took telling a lie to save a buck it would be done.That being said I imagine they were very trying times. Look ford accomplished the division they wanted in the union. Until there equal pay for equal work the infighting and bitching will get worse. Its just going to be harder for you to get a raise with out bumping us up. May be true, but without a crystal ball to see the future, most people couldn't take the chance
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jsf
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Post by jsf on Aug 6, 2014 16:01:54 GMT -5
I believe like you do equal pay for equal work, hope it works out for everyone.I can honestly say I voted no to that contract but I can see why people voted for it also. Now that the tables are turned now is the time to band together to get it back... I believe that if everyone voted no to that contract it still would have passed I have no confidence on all the shady deals that goes on with this union anymore just my two cents
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Post by wildcats34 on Aug 6, 2014 16:39:54 GMT -5
Your probably right!
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Post by justaworker on Aug 6, 2014 17:05:57 GMT -5
I would be willing to see an $11 increase in pay before anybody else gets a raise. I want an $11 an hour raise as well. But neither is ever going to happen.
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Post by wildcats34 on Aug 6, 2014 17:44:07 GMT -5
Hope your wrong for at least one of us.
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Post by justaworker on Aug 6, 2014 17:50:06 GMT -5
Me too wildcats... Me too.
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Post by pmooret on Aug 6, 2014 19:00:18 GMT -5
I know some people who sat in on the important meetings about our plants future at the time and know for a fact our plant was slated to close. Mark Fields came here and the last thing he told our union leaders and plant manager at that time was how he couldn't stress enough for LAP to not be a burden to Ford right now. So we went without heat in the building water and electric rationing couldn't even get anything from general stores to run production all to keep LAP in the black. It was a scary time here at LAP and almost everyone here had 10years or more in so I know we all did what we had to do to save this plant and our jobs. All the two tier people I know would do the same thing in the future to save your jobs if it comes to that point again. If not for the concessions we made and Gettlefinger not being from this plant and doing what we did to keep this plant in the black this plant would not be here today not only for the legacy people but for the two teir employees also... I've been here going on 23 years and I know That is the facts.... From what I heard and was told during that time we were slated to close. When we didn't close I was told that Joe Bobner, out plant manager at that time, worked tirelessly to keep that from happening and remaining open was attributed to his efforts. I believe that he made many trips to Frankfort too. And your right about not being able to get anything from the General Store, they even stopped supplying us with windex to clean our safety glasses. My other two cents worth: When the introduction of the two tier system started several legacy employees theorized that the eventual goal of this was to bring legacy employees down to the two tier wage and it looks like it may happen. The last contract we didn't get a raise and the two tier employees did, the first step in closing tha gap. I have read somewhere that our International has said that we will not get a raise on this next contract but that they were working on bringing up the wage of the two tier employees, step two in closing the gap. Over time the gap will be closed and the wage that the legacy employees make will not longer be quite so attractive. BTW, I voted no to all concessions. Mulally was making WAY to much money for us to give up anything. Besides, the cost of labor is the smallest percentage of the total cost of building a vehicle. Remember the pie charts from the classes we took!
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Post by wildcats34 on Aug 6, 2014 19:17:14 GMT -5
I was not here for all the town hall meetings. But as an outsider the way I understand it the main reason lap is open is the generous tax incentives from Frankfort. I think it was a decent amount more tax dollars for lap than other assembly plants in other states. So my point earlier concessions didn't play that big of a role in keeping lap open. Once again I wasn't here so if what im saying isn't true please let me know. Its just how I understand it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2014 19:29:51 GMT -5
Finally..some tier 1 admitting they were fooled rather than lying and saying they voted the two tier down.amazing. Y does it seem that tier 2 has to suffer because tier 1 employees have been making $30/HR for a decade.yet most of u live out of your means and weren't able to save anything? Its not our fault u pissed your money away. Lets face it. If any tier 1 needs a raise.notice I said need.not want!. If they need a raise its because there own fuckups.not ours.u all honestly think its fair that we work same hours.we sweat.we bleed the same as u. Yet we should b pit on the backburner.get real Mark my words tier 2 employees. Tier 1 will sell us out for a .50cent raise.none of them give 2 shits about the future of Ford.they only care about what's happening now at Ford and themselves. All I can say is this.come September 2015. U better get your strike shoes on!! No one told you about what you where in for for? and you STILL took the job? This. MSD is hiring at $16 an hour. And you know as soon as you go there you will put up with Shit on a daily basis. The signing bonus and scare tactics by Jimmy Settles and the goons up north will be enough to get the "Weak" members to vote yes on the next shitty contract.
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Post by justaworker on Aug 6, 2014 19:30:38 GMT -5
I was not here for all the town hall meetings. But as an outsider the way I understand it the main reason lap is open is the generous tax incentives from Frankfort. I think it was a decent amount more tax dollars for lap than other assembly plants in other states. So my point earlier concessions didn't play that big of a role in keeping lap open. Once again I wasn't here so if what im saying isn't true please let me know. Its just how I understand it. Nobody knows for sure, one thing is certain... Economies of scale. Basic economic principle, two plants close together an absorb many of the same costs. Ktp, Imo, is the reason we are here now.. And why this is a safe plant.
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jsf
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Post by jsf on Aug 6, 2014 19:38:11 GMT -5
The tax incentives was a big part of the equation for sure but I think the reason we stayed open is solely do to the company getting other things in exchange for pleasing Gettlefinger and the plant he came from and felt an obligation to
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Post by justaworker on Aug 6, 2014 19:45:01 GMT -5
I've never believed the gettlefinger theories. Those are billion dollar decisions, the home plant of a guy wouldn't factor in. Much more union leadership from up north, and they took the hardest hits.
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Post by ihatemyjob on Aug 6, 2014 19:51:46 GMT -5
You better believe Gettlefinger played a huge part in LAP staying open.
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Post by justaworker on Aug 6, 2014 19:56:29 GMT -5
You better believe Gettlefinger played a huge part in LAP staying open. How so, what part?
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Post by ihatemyjob on Aug 6, 2014 20:08:16 GMT -5
Neither do the Ford Explorers, Sport Tracs and Mercury Mountaineers produced at the Louisville Assembly Plant, at least not in their current form. Yet Louisville is the home plant of UAW President Ron Gettelfinger, and sources say the company does not want to embarrass him by shutting it down. From The Detroit News: www.detroitnews.com/article/20071023/AUTO01/710230390#ixzz39fEFZQw1And I've heard from someone that plays golf with him that he really went to bat to make sure LAP was saved.
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Post by justaworker on Aug 6, 2014 20:10:58 GMT -5
Oh, I'm sure he wants to take credit for it... No doubt.
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