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Post by 1tier4all on Oct 12, 2014 3:50:18 GMT -5
I was speaking to someone from another local about how each of their quality leaders are voted into position rather than exclusively seniority. I find this to be a reasonable process for the position given the amount of responsibility and authority it holds. I hear valid complaints about many quality leaders from different shifts areas etc. Some complaints about job performance others about harassment. My thought is would it be possible to instill a voting process; maybe a process the union representation would consider? Feel free to chime in if anyone has any comments or information.
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Post by Mark Thomas on Oct 12, 2014 7:00:54 GMT -5
Not interested in voted in QLs ! Most important, it eliminates yet another position that senior brothers and sisters can cool their heels in after so to say, serving their time on the line. We all need jobs that are less demanding on the body after time if we are to make it to the end.
Most people have the wrong idea on the quality leaders job anyway. They are not in that position to serve you the line worker. Read the title.. it is a job just like every other position in the plant. Their job is to control the defects/quality/stock issues within their zone. Yes they are there to handle extreme emergency issues that may occur with the area also, medical and such. But baby sitter is not part of the deal.
Now, what exactly are you asking for from your QL would be more interesting to hear.
If you think voting in your best buddy/ friend whatever in as your QL. I can say from working under a few at KTP. You're in for a rude awakening. Can you say in the clik, because if your not, you will be just as unhappy as I guess you are now. plus you will now have nothing to look forward to as you get up in age and your body can not deal with the line. Because you voted to rid yourself of yet another senior job !
I can't speak for all QLs, but I as a repairman C crew on the motor line work behind 4 QLs, and they all go IMO beyond their job description to accommodate their people.
But you guys are the future so what you decide is what you live with.
PEACE
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Post by justaworker on Oct 12, 2014 19:13:32 GMT -5
Very well said, mark.
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Post by jfalcon on Oct 12, 2014 21:25:41 GMT -5
^^^^^^^I Agree ^^^^^^
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Post by blackbird66 on Oct 13, 2014 6:53:58 GMT -5
I'm at KTP and we elect team leaders. I've worked in plants where it was a seniority bid job. The horror stories are true. I much prefer elected team leaders. I no more want my team leader to be a bid job, than I would want my union rep to be a bid job
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2014 8:52:29 GMT -5
I'm at KTP and we elect team leaders. I've worked in plants where it was a seniority bid job. The horror stories are true. I much prefer elected team leaders. I no more want my team leader to be a bid job, than I would want my union rep to be a bid job Yep. When you get QL's with 20+ years, most of these guys feel they have done their time with Ford and are not obligated to fix your "F**k-Up", let you go to the bathroom or open your stock. Don't believe this? Just go to the west side chasis area on A crew. Seen my QL post on Facebook that he had his dogs at the Vet, same time we had a major break down. He said if you need him to text him. I guess a 30 - 40 minute wait each time is about right since he lives about 15 miles away from the plant.
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Post by brundog2020 on Oct 13, 2014 12:53:26 GMT -5
QL's aren't all bad. I have 27yrs in and i take care of my people. I give P-breaks regularly to my people and i do have a couple that abuse me every day when they take 20-25minutes every day sometimes 2 to 3 times a day is that fair? I work metal line bodyshop and i can assure you i'm not on my rear-end every day. I worked 3 years at KTP and they do elect teamleaders but that is done by popularity not best man for the job and if you aren't in the clique so to speak you don't get special treatment he only needs to keep half plus one happy to keep job!but like someone said majority spoke over there and thats the way it is done. There are ways to get a teamleader disqualified at both plants if he doesn't do his job,make management aware along with union rep!
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Post by blackbird66 on Oct 13, 2014 13:14:55 GMT -5
QL's aren't all bad. I have 27yrs in and i take care of my people. I give P-breaks regularly to my people and i do have a couple that abuse me every day when they take 20-25minutes every day sometimes 2 to 3 times a day is that fair? I work metal line bodyshop and i can assure you i'm not on my rear-end every day. I worked 3 years at KTP and they do elect teamleaders but that is done by popularity not best man for the job and if you aren't in the clique so to speak you don't get special treatment he only needs to keep half plus one happy to keep job!but like someone said majority spoke over there and thats the way it is done. There are ways to get a teamleader disqualified at both plants if he doesn't do his job,make management aware along with union rep! Regardless of how people get selected for these jobs, we are talking about people. People who are not perfect, and bring various bags of luggage with them. Either system can bet you a good, or bad coworker. It is folly to lump all of them together, and does disservice to those who take pride in their work, and treat others with the dignity and respect that they often do not receive themselves
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2014 13:17:02 GMT -5
QL's aren't all bad. I have 27yrs in and i take care of my people. I give P-breaks regularly to my people and i do have a couple that abuse me every day when they take 20-25minutes every day sometimes 2 to 3 times a day is that fair? I work metal line bodyshop and i can assure you i'm not on my rear-end every day. I worked 3 years at KTP and they do elect teamleaders but that is done by popularity not best man for the job and if you aren't in the clique so to speak you don't get special treatment he only needs to keep half plus one happy to keep job!but like someone said majority spoke over there and thats the way it is done. There are ways to get a teamleader disqualified at both plants if he doesn't do his job,make management aware along with union rep! Not saying everyone with 20+ years are bad, some guys are work-a-holics but the ones Im talking about sit at the picnic tables in back of west chasis falling asleep there or in a cubby hole on their line while their people are needing them. They don't disqualify anymore at LAP. They move the QL that people complain about to another line. Kind of like the Catholic priest did in the churches with molesters. You keep moving them around so no one knows what they are getting.
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Post by Bcrew4life on Oct 13, 2014 14:04:49 GMT -5
I know there are some QL's that aren't worth a shit, but our QL in body closure on B crew treats us right. And the QL's on the door line & metal line are damn good too. Now when you get over to bodyside that's a different story.
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Post by lap65 on Oct 13, 2014 18:49:01 GMT -5
Only know of one bad one in our part of trim, they were much much worse when I hired in than they are now,if you are waiting 30 -40 minutes before he /she comes & you have a repair, they should be getting into trouble alot because repairs arent supposed to get that far away. If they dont open your stock, then you cant do your job...on them not you. If you wait past the alotted time to go to the bathroom, shut the line down & go. You will get someones attention fast.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2014 20:07:57 GMT -5
Only know of one bad one in our part of trim, they were much much worse when I hired in than they are now ,if you are waiting 30 -40 minutes before he /she comes & you have a repair, they should be getting into trouble alot because repairs arent supposed to get that far away. If they dont open your stock, then you cant do your job...on them not you. If you wait past the alotted time to go to the bathroom, shut the line down & go. You will get someones attention fast. Go out in the repair part of the shop and see what comes down the line for repairs. Same stuff everyday all day. Simple stuff and lazy stuff. Some in QLS, some not. I don't know how they get away with this crap.
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Post by justaworker on Oct 13, 2014 20:45:03 GMT -5
Some in the plant believe the ql is like their babysitter. They're not. They have a specific job to do, just like the rest of us. As far as repairs, we've done away with all the repair jobs, and management won't let the line stop to be fixed in zone. Quantity is what's important.
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Post by fordguru on Oct 14, 2014 9:15:04 GMT -5
The 2nd tier folks will favor a voting system in most cases. It gives low seniority a chance of getting off line. I have worked both. I much favor Traditional seniority operating system over the Modern operating system. That said I have 16+ years of line work and my body is breaking down. I need an offline option! Folks abuse bathroom breaks in my zone my guy spends at least half time online with set time bathroom breaks for several folks before and after lunch @ set times.. SMH..
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Post by 1tier4all on Oct 15, 2014 1:39:22 GMT -5
I believe that my initial post may have been misinterpreted. First and foremost I did not create this thread to whine about or discredit anyone. I simply feel as if in some cases I've seen abuse of the position. I'm talking about those whom are out to throw any line worker under to management just for a pat on the back. Some quality leaders act more as company supervisors than union brothers. I do not expect anything from my quality leader. No special treatment including excessive bathroom breaks, leaving early, additional breaks, etc. I believe just as any other employee they should simply do their job to the best of their ability. I certainly don't mind what they do throughout the shift it's none of my business but when a quality leader threatens operators, harasses them in a manor such as screaming cursing and generally demeaning another employee. That is wrong. When an operator has an issue on the job I've seen them go straight to management rather than investigating if there is an actual problem or operator performance. The other incidents I've seen are special favors given to friends or females and once complaints are made the operator is blamed by the quality leader as they have managements ear. Or how about general laziness which is not my business as I said but if a quality leader does nothing but spend their days watching tv, napping, and bar hopping leaving their responsibilties to a utility and as soon as something goes wrong while they are doing these things once again throw anyone under the bus to management to get out of their incompetence. Especially when some of them cannot hold a job during a bathroom break or volunteer day. As I said I know there is plenty of good quality leaders and just as with any job description there are good ones and bad ones. I am a utility and have covered as a quality leader several times so I understand the resonsibilties and hear all the complaints. With all that said I'm sure there is flaws to voting in quality leaders, however as it stands if you have a terrible quality leader whom everyone in the area cannot stand and leaves to other areas/shifts to avoid there is nothing that can be done. However if we had a voting system you have the opportunity to vote in and out and if everyone exercises that right I'm sure the right person for the job will be in place atleast more so than now.
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Post by noneoftheabove on Oct 17, 2014 12:39:33 GMT -5
We have already lost clean up which were bid jobs,which when u get further down the road will no long be something to look foward to.So what the hell we should take all bid jobs out and let everybody die on the line!!!after all its not like seniority means anything!!!so as far as your thought I not only say no..I say HELL NO!!!!
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Post by blackbird66 on Oct 17, 2014 16:22:36 GMT -5
We have already lost clean up which were bid jobs,which when u get further down the road will no long be something to look foward to.So what the hell we should take all bid jobs out and let everybody die on the line!!!after all its not like seniority means anything!!!so as far as your thought I not only say no..I say HELL NO!!!! Clean up was an entire department. PMHV repair/ Maintenance department could be out sourced Material Handling could be outsourced Outsourcing is not the same argument as the vote/bid debate. Some people will do all 30 years on the line. A handful of people had good bid jobs in less than 3 years. Some will get good bid jobs just 3 years away from retirement. Some never will. And some will be stuck on nights for almost their entire 30 years. Seniority is luck of the draw. The new hire/ retirement rotation happens in large waves. There is no way to create enough bid jobs to get everyone off the assembly line as they age.
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Post by bogeybush on Oct 17, 2014 17:35:23 GMT -5
I had a QL job in trim for about a year and a half. Couldn't bid off that damn babysitting job fast enough. You people who think the QL is there to make life easier on you are some selfish a-holes. I tried to give people smoke breaks and pee calls as soon as they asked for one. A lot of the time I would go to them and see if they needed to go. What did I get in return? People staying gone for 25 minutes....people who needed to poop 10 minutes after break or lunch EVERY DAY...and a SH#$load of repairs going right past me because I was on YOUR job instead of mine. You can keep it.
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Post by noneoftheabove on Oct 17, 2014 21:15:34 GMT -5
My point is we have already lost to many bid jobs we don't need to lose anymore!!I've worked MOA and its not all it cracked up to be.if u think you ql is bad now go ahead and start that voting crap you will be sorry..most people on the line have a false belief that their ql is their relief person and those who do can go suck a you know what!!!as far as g.u.covering most of u don't do half the ql job!!notice I said most!!!peace I'm out!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2014 21:59:37 GMT -5
Rumor is this next contract we are team concept or what ever they call it. Either way, we're screwed.
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Post by gocards on Oct 21, 2014 13:24:34 GMT -5
I don't understand what some people expect from your Team Leaders.They are not your boss in most cases they just are relaying thier message from your supervisor. If the supervisor does his job properly then they would be the one taking the grief in most cases instead of your TL. But since management just wants quanity off the line they keep peace by letting the operator take as many pee call as they want. They can miss things all day as long as the TL fixes the repairs and relieve you for your pee calls trucks keep going off hte line they are happy. In most cases you have a lot of the abusers not go to the bathroom on breaks or lunch they just go 4 times a day everyday on the TL. Thats your problem. If you have to go, go and come back and their would be no issue but they want to go 10-15 minutes 4 times a day everyday. Who really is the problem here the abuser or the TL who is tired of getting abused. Remember also management took away smoking not your TL. and if you are mad at the Company and spend more time you are only hurting your team and the TL.
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Post by Bcrew4life on Oct 21, 2014 15:07:43 GMT -5
If Quality Leaders didn't do half the Supervisors work they'd have plenty of time to be"Quality Leaders". They are not "Team Leaders" yet. And anyone that votes for a contract that allows LAP to go from a COA to MOA is crazy. There is so much animosity at LAP now and Teams would only create more.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2014 18:37:53 GMT -5
If Quality Leaders didn't do half the Supervisors work they'd have plenty of time to be"Quality Leaders". They are not "Team Leaders" yet. And anyone that votes for a contract that allows LAP to go from a COA to MOA is crazy. There is so much animosity at LAP now and Teams would only create more. Once established the Team Leaders will be replacing/phasing out line foremen. The temporary supervisors will be gone.
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Post by effuford on Oct 22, 2014 0:52:35 GMT -5
Someone explain this whole team leader change or whatever to me. Phasing out supervisor? If my ql becomes my boss and starts telling me what to do I'll be making a big statement then walking out the door. My ql is a lazy sack of shit. Always messed up. Leaving to go get messed up while the line is running. Bullshitting. Not doing our repairs. Not giving restroom breaks. And if that becomes my boss I'm out. So do explain this change to me.
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Post by justaworker on Oct 22, 2014 2:17:16 GMT -5
Someone explain this whole team leader change or whatever to me. Phasing out supervisor? If my ql becomes my boss and starts telling me what to do I'll be making a big statement then walking out the door. My ql is a lazy sack of shit. Always messed up. Leaving to go get messed up while the line is running. Bullshitting. Not doing our repairs. Not giving restroom breaks. And if that becomes my boss I'm out. So do explain this change to me. It's nothing to worry about... Wont happen. But that's kind of the idea behind team concept. Team leaders doing more management work.
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Post by jsf on Oct 22, 2014 14:56:44 GMT -5
We were told that our plants quality was terrible and our first time thru numbers were terrible and that if things don't change Detroit was looking to move the Escape and Lincoln to other plants and close LAP. Was told by management in QLEADER meetings sunday and Monday night and to tell everyone else so that's what I'm doing, take it for what it's worth...
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Post by justaworker on Oct 22, 2014 15:13:03 GMT -5
We were told that our plants quality was terrible and our first time thru numbers were terrible and that if things don't change Detroit was looking to move the Escape and Lincoln to other plants and close LAP. Was told by management in QLEADER meetings sunday and Monday night and to tell everyone else so that's what I'm doing, take it for what it's worth... You got lied to.
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Post by effuford on Oct 22, 2014 16:14:59 GMT -5
We were told that our plants quality was terrible and our first time thru numbers were terrible and that if things don't change Detroit was looking to move the Escape and Lincoln to other plants and close LAP. Was told by management in QLEADER meetings sunday and Monday night and to tell everyone else so that's what I'm doing, take it for what it's worth... Yeah. That's just fear mongering to get people to do more work. What's your supervisors name?
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Post by lap65 on Oct 22, 2014 16:46:00 GMT -5
Hmm.....interesting just a few weeks ago it was being spread how happy Detroit was with us & we were getting another vehicle & buying land to expand & ..........hmmm.
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Post by noneoftheabove on Oct 22, 2014 16:47:23 GMT -5
Would that supervisor happen to be the smallest one of them all with the initials K.T...biggest azz of them all!!
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