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Post by machination on Dec 9, 2014 9:21:54 GMT -5
Would you, as a Legacy worker, support not getting a base-pay raise for the entirety of the next contract if it meant that we could eliminate the two-tier pay system and gain pensions for current and future new hires? With the elimination of "two-tier" their pay could start at/move to 70% of our pay and increase 5%/year until it reaches ours in 3 years, just like it was for us since the 1993 contract when it changed from 18 months. They also don't currently get pensions. TPT's and LTS's would remain unchanged like they always have been. This change would apply to fully hired employees under two-tier.
I hired in at KTP in 1995 on the old heavy truck chassis lines building F800s and school buses.
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Post by blackbird66 on Dec 9, 2014 9:27:55 GMT -5
YES
Once we become the minority our pension will be dependent upon those who have no pension. I see that as a major problem
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Post by machination on Dec 9, 2014 9:28:35 GMT -5
Click the poll button to vote
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Post by buggaman on Dec 9, 2014 9:42:34 GMT -5
Yes, it is the right thing for our brothers and our union.
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Post by justaworker on Dec 9, 2014 12:46:14 GMT -5
Irrelevant question, one doesn't have anything to do with the other. Might as well ask if we would be willing to give up insurance if it created more rainbows.
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Post by noneoftheabove on Dec 9, 2014 15:43:56 GMT -5
Stupid poll!!!!!
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Post by noneoftheabove on Dec 9, 2014 15:48:20 GMT -5
Sorry 2 tier but if I don't get a raise I'm damn sure not voting for you to get one!! Don't hate on me I'm just being honest!!
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Post by Ex-metalman on Dec 9, 2014 16:16:48 GMT -5
I would vote yes if I get my full pension now (20yrs) and wanna bes get full pay ..that's the only way.I want a raise and hell with everyone else .thats just me though.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2014 16:44:18 GMT -5
Sorry but even if this was in writing I would still vote "NO". We gave up too much already as legacy employees and we were promised shit that never materialized. So many things that we have done, the union brothers and sisters before us have done to keep shit like this from happening.
Your International UAW and Local UAW leaders sold you out for 2nd tier wages, not us, the legacy line workers. I don't have the list but someone needs to post everything we have given up already.
You the 2nd tier KNEW WHAT YOU WERE GETTING WHEN YOU CAME THROUGH THE FRONT GATE.
If I went into a nut kicking contest, I think I would know first hand I was going to get kicked in the nuts.
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ccrewdummie
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Post by ccrewdummie on Dec 9, 2014 17:00:46 GMT -5
I would vote no and I'm 2 tier. Even if it was just 40 hrs per wk with the 3% that is still over $1500 a year. The pension is a thing of the past. All companies want to do away with pensions. Some companies are buying the pensions out or converting it to something else once the retiree reach a certain age. 2 tier isn't going away. Some companies want to start a 3 tier. So voting yes would be a pointless vote and wouldn't count anyway. This has nothing to do with me "knowing it all" Google it, read Fortune and several other articles about it. Fords goal was to buy out all salaried pensions by 2014.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2014 17:02:08 GMT -5
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Post by justaworker on Dec 9, 2014 17:32:08 GMT -5
Yeah, pretty shitty little person. Doubt it's a ford employee. |
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Post by machination on Dec 9, 2014 19:49:48 GMT -5
Irrelevant question, one doesn't have anything to do with the other. Might as well ask if we would be willing to give up insurance if it created more rainbows. I doubt we'll get a raise or elimination of 2-tier. It was a hypothetical question to gauge opinions if this came up as a sort of compromise during negotiations. It's hardly irrelevant since it's about 2 HUGE issues of interest to the membership, which will no doubt at least be mentioned during negotiations; would be naïve and obstinately cynical to believe otherwise. If either were to be even the least bit considered it would almost certainly preclude the adoption of the other. This is how one has to do with the other. |
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Post by machination on Dec 9, 2014 19:58:16 GMT -5
Yeah, pretty shitty little person. Doubt it's a ford employee. I'm a monstrous horrible person who points out the obvious in things that relate to fairness and long term solidarity and benefit for all in way so obvious that it tricks people into thinking I was not-so-cleverly baiting and that they are clever enough to discover it. "Yeah, pretty shitty little person. Doubt it's a ford employee." - You are incorrect on both points. This is not factual. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2014 22:07:00 GMT -5
Yeah, pretty shitty little person. Doubt it's a ford employee. I'm a monstrous horrible person who points out the obvious in things that relate to fairness and long term solidarity and benefit for all in way so obvious that it tricks people into thinking I was not-so-cleverly baiting and that they are clever enough to discover it. "Yeah, pretty shitty little person. Doubt it's a ford employee." - You are incorrect on both points. This is not factual. Well you are obviously a 2nd tier employee then with bad figures because what we gave up WAS WAY MORE THAN YOUR GOD DAMMED POCKET CHANGE FIGURE!So go back and tally up all the fucking money that has been taken from the legacy workers then get back to us. If anyone was to trust something as fucking stupid as that shit then they need to be in a mental institute. Seriously! |
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Post by pmooret on Dec 9, 2014 23:08:55 GMT -5
Okay legacy employees, remember many, many, many years ago back when every time you turned around the company was sending us to classes. I remember a pie chart but don't recall the percentages on it and am hoping someone kept a copy of it. The chart broke down into percentages the ENTIRE cost of building a unit, this included things such as stock, launches, corporate salaries, testing, design, facilies, etc. The smallest piece of the pie was HOURLY SALARIES. Nobody needs to give up nothing, their just greedy at the top. Wake up and smell the pie!
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Post by pmooret on Dec 9, 2014 23:10:16 GMT -5
Sorry, "their" should be "they're".
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Post by machination on Dec 10, 2014 0:13:20 GMT -5
I'm a monstrous horrible person who points out the obvious in things that relate to fairness and long term solidarity and benefit for all in way so obvious that it tricks people into thinking I was not-so-cleverly baiting and that they are clever enough to discover it. "Yeah, pretty shitty little person. Doubt it's a ford employee." - You are incorrect on both points. This is not factual. Well you are obviously a 2nd tier employee then with bad figures because what we gave up WAS WAY MORE THAN YOUR GOD DAMMED POCKET CHANGE FIGURE!So go back and tally up all the fucking money that has been taken from the legacy workers then get back to us. If anyone was to trust something as fucking stupid as that shit then they need to be in a mental institute. Seriously! You're obviously someone who's wrong a lot. And my figure was correct. You sound very anti-union and very pro-self. Sorry analspasm but I'm not tallying anything for you. If you can't figure out for yourself what a 3% raise would equal after taxes then I can't help you. I want more money too. Everyone does. Try to see the big picture, instead of having a spastic anus. |
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Post by pmooret on Dec 10, 2014 0:40:14 GMT -5
Hey folks, I clicked on Machination's name to look up his profile and he just registered 15 hours ago. I smell a rat.
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Post by machination on Dec 10, 2014 0:52:59 GMT -5
Hey folks, I clicked on Machination's name to look up his profile and he just registered 15 hours ago. I smell a rat. Theres a spot on the left under people's names that shows how many posts we have made. I had made 9 when you cleverly looked up my profile to try to determine how new it was. Good job! |
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Post by justaworker on Dec 10, 2014 0:55:06 GMT -5
Hey folks, I clicked on Machination's name to look up his profile and he just registered 15 hours ago. I smell a rat. Yeah, saw when he registered. It was obvious, but it was a failure so it's fun to watch. Dumbest poll I've ever seen. |
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Post by pmooret on Dec 10, 2014 1:17:20 GMT -5
That's why I didh't dignify it with a vote.
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Post by justaworker on Dec 10, 2014 1:29:04 GMT -5
His poll was essentially, would you give up a 3% raise so I can get a 33% raise. Lol
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Post by machination on Dec 10, 2014 1:58:04 GMT -5
His poll was essentially, would you give up a 3% raise so I can get a 33% raise. Lol How would I get a 33% raise? LOL I'm NOT a new hire people. I made 75k last year I can afford to strengthen our union and solidarity. Keep the "gimme-mine to hell with everyone else" in mind when you need those new hires years from now. Don't ever complain about the "union" when you don't even believe in being united yourself. The "union" that you wish was stronger is just going to get weaker and weaker precisely because of the lack of unity and the "me myself and I" mentality that you and so many other people have shared for years. And when the union is broken and the new hires are older and resent the retirees we'll all pay for it, and that includes you unfortunately. I want whats best for all of us for the long haul. I'm good with my money and should be fine anyway. Best of luck to the rest of you. Without solidarity we have no union. That's not the elected officials fault. It's yours. Sadly, way too many workers don't seem to understand solidarity. How can you expect, even demand, that the organization do so much more for members who could care less for the guy working next to them. It's insanely hypocritical for someone to complain about the union not caring about the workers when the person complaining couldn't give a squat about them either. The mentality seems to be "It's all about me, gimme mine!" while the guy next to you makes half as much, no pension, and is doing the same, if not harder, work. And don't gimme that "They gotta pay their dues!" crap. We got to top pay in 3 years. Anyone hired before the 1993 contract got it in 18 months. The new hires will pay their dues alright, and much less pay and with a much more perilous future. Don't expect them to forget if we didn't have their backs when payback time rolls around. So much for solidarity. |
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Post by justaworker on Dec 10, 2014 2:45:55 GMT -5
Nobody disagrees, but that ship has sailed. These plants passing the last contract sealed the deal.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2014 7:59:26 GMT -5
He is either lying about being a 2nd tier or he is (I)UAW suck ass sent here to stir shit up.
People like this piss me off because they are shit stain to the original UAW pride.
Keep on Trolling.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2014 8:01:38 GMT -5
Hey folks, I clicked on Machination's name to look up his profile and he just registered 15 hours ago. I smell a rat. Yeah, saw when he registered. It was obvious, but it was a failure so it's fun to watch. Dumbest poll I've ever seen. And it will only downward spiral from here. He needs attention. |
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Post by saugerman on Dec 10, 2014 10:19:20 GMT -5
maybe we should have a poll to see if we think he is a scumbag?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2014 10:24:30 GMT -5
He is either lying about being a 2nd tier or he is (I)UAW suck ass sent here to stir shit up. People like this piss me off because they are shit stain to the original UAW pride. Keep on Trolling. The prideful UAW originals would be disgusted to see folks like you contribute to the destruction of our solidarity. Workers who stick together and look out for each other deserve a raise. People like you who don't give a crap about anyone but yourself don't deserve a raise, or any other benefit that you've gained on the backs of the old timers who looked out for each other. Put that in your pipe and smoke it twitchy anus. Personal attacks now? Yep, Just another UAW suck ass. Probably an appointed position. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2014 10:26:26 GMT -5
maybe we should have a poll to see if we think he is a scumbag? Yes he/she is. This is the person that sits in the front row of every UAW meeting and claps their hands every time one of the almighty speak. This is the type of person that has divided the UAW and will only keep making matters worse. Because of trash like this, this is why I would vote for Kentucky to be a right to work state and I never would of said this 10 years ago when the union workers were the definition of Solidarity. . But scum like the OP have tarnished everything the UAW stands for. |
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