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Post by machination on Dec 9, 2014 9:27:51 GMT -5
Would you, as a Legacy worker, support not getting a base-pay raise for the entirety of the next contract if it meant that we could eliminate the two-tier pay system and gain pensions for current and future new hires? With the elimination of "two-tier" their pay could start at/move to 70% of our pay and increase 5%/year until it reaches ours in 3 years, just like it was for us since the 1993 contract when it changed from 18 months. They also don't currently get pensions. TPT's and LTS's would remain unchanged like they always have been. This change would apply to fully hired employees under two-tier.
I hired in at KTP in 1995 on the old heavy truck chassis lines building F800s and school buses.
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Post by machination on Dec 9, 2014 9:34:50 GMT -5
click the poll button to vote
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Post by nra4life on Dec 9, 2014 10:50:29 GMT -5
In my personal opinion the new setup is better than the pension. The pension could dissapear tomorrow, we would get pennies on the dollar for its value. The new program is in the employees name, its yours, if you die its your wifes or kids. Wish they would buy my pension out & put it in a fund that is in my name. Dont trust that pension. I will vote NO on any contract off that does not include COLA coming back. Thats my line in the sand.
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Post by Ktp1989 on Dec 9, 2014 11:46:46 GMT -5
Two tier needs to be eliminated...period. I have been an employee for 26 years and just like everyone else have not had a raise in nearly 12 years...but two tier is priority 1 in my opinion.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2014 12:10:32 GMT -5
In my personal opinion the new setup is better than the pension. The pension could dissapear tomorrow, we would get pennies on the dollar for its value. The new program is in the employees name, its yours, if you die its your wifes or kids. Wish they would buy my pension out & put it in a fund that is in my name. Dont trust that pension. I will vote NO on any contract off that does not include COLA coming back. Thats my line in the sand. What?  A pension pays you for life and contains health benefits and is at least somewhat guaranteed by erisa. The only way it disappears is if we vote it away. It's the 401k that can disappear tomorrow. I don't often post here but this one is so ignorant I had to. Ive voted no on every contract to date. '99 hire here |
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Post by rockyt on Dec 9, 2014 12:25:12 GMT -5
Why is this an either/or question? We should demand both a raise for the Legacy employees and elimination of 2 tier.
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Post by justaworker on Dec 9, 2014 12:49:24 GMT -5
Why is this an either/or question? We should demand both a raise for the Legacy employees and elimination of 2 tier. Yeah, one has nothing to do with the other. May not even be a ford employee that started this. |
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Post by nra4life on Dec 9, 2014 12:49:30 GMT -5
In my personal opinion the new setup is better than the pension. The pension could dissapear tomorrow, we would get pennies on the dollar for its value. The new program is in the employees name, its yours, if you die its your wifes or kids. Wish they would buy my pension out & put it in a fund that is in my name. Dont trust that pension. I will vote NO on any contract off that does not include COLA coming back. Thats my line in the sand. What? A pension pays you for life and contains health benefits and is at least somewhat guaranteed by erisa. The only way it disappears is if we vote it away. It's the 401k that can disappear tomorrow. I don't often post here but this one is so ignorant I had to. Ive voted no on every contract to date. '99 hire here Wow, you really should research exactly how a pension plan works, who funds it, and who gaurantees it. It does pay a lifetime...yours...so if you drop dead 6 months after doing your 30 your pension is history. If the company is placing money into an account in YOUR name for 30 years & you drop dead 6 months after you retire. YOU decide who gets what is left. I had a parent that was retired have their pension go into default, the governement agency that "gaurantees" the pension pays about 40% of what is should have been. Give me my money in an account in MY name, no way do i trust the company or union to gaurantee my pension & if you do, you my friend are the ignorant one. |
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Post by tiger66 on Dec 9, 2014 13:15:31 GMT -5
The workers that have been here for years expect a nice raise this time. We have been at the same pay for years and it was not us that did the two-tear thing it was your union and company. You want a raise? So do I. Think about this: it's 2025 and ur making the same thing you did in 2015.
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Post by blackbird66 on Dec 9, 2014 13:45:25 GMT -5
What? A pension pays you for life and contains health benefits and is at least somewhat guaranteed by erisa. The only way it disappears is if we vote it away. It's the 401k that can disappear tomorrow. I don't often post here but this one is so ignorant I had to. Ive voted no on every contract to date. '99 hire here Wow, you really should research exactly how a pension plan works, who funds it, and who gaurantees it. It does pay a lifetime...yours...so if you drop dead 6 months after doing your 30 your pension is history. If the company is placing money into an account in YOUR name for 30 years & you drop dead 6 months after you retire. YOU decide who gets what is left. I had a parent that was retired have their pension go into default, the governement agency that "gaurantees" the pension pays about 40% of what is should have been. Give me my money in an account in MY name, no way do i trust the company or union to gaurantee my pension & if you do, you my friend are the ignorant one. I know how a pension works. What I'm not so sure of is VEBA. Though a pension is not 100% guaranteed it is safer than a 401k. You already have a 401k TESPHE. It is just no matched by FoMoCo. Matching 401ks are a huge benefit to companies over a traditional pension. I think the majority prefers a traditional pension. |
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Post by tryingtomakeit on Dec 9, 2014 15:48:28 GMT -5
For me, I have to see hourly raises, return of COLA, time and a half on C crew Saturdays, end of 2 tier, and return of retiree Christmas bonus to begin with, or its an automatic NO.
After that, Id like to see some matching by the co for everyones tesphe. Id like to see the minute back on our hourly break. These are all things that I think we as the rank and file have EARNED, by our sacrifices to help the co out in dark times. Its what is right.
Id also like to see a system of self policing by the hourly employees put into effect. Set up a court, and handle violations in house using a point system to penalize offending workers. And for each violation we could take some pay away for the violations, like
-.50 for any grown ass man\woman sucking on a chrome dildo, er I mean e-cig on the plant floor. you look like a douche.
-.50 for any adult over the age of 21 wearing ear gauges. Our greatest generation didn't die on the beaches on D-Day so you could look like a circus freak at work. Show some respect.
-.25 For neck tattoos, just because.
-.50 For sagging pants. Again, youre an adult, and you know that's a prison thing advertising for companionship, right?
-1.00 For any new hire wearing a Class of 2013, shirt. The majority of us are old and worn out. We don't need to be reminded of it.
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Post by driveshaftgrunt on Dec 9, 2014 17:32:45 GMT -5
BARE minimum should be elimination of two tier...........or just fold the union up.
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Post by machination on Dec 9, 2014 19:45:01 GMT -5
Why is this an either/or question? We should demand both a raise for the Legacy employees and elimination of 2 tier. I doubt we'll get a raise or elimination of 2-tier. It was a hypothetical question to gauge opinions if this came up as a sort of compromise during negotiations. I think it's unlikely we'll get either, but there is NO WAY we would get both. We could demand valet parking for gate 0 too but its not going to happen. |
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Post by machination on Dec 9, 2014 20:31:41 GMT -5
For me, I have to see hourly raises, return of COLA, time and a half on C crew Saturdays, end of 2 tier, and return of retiree Christmas bonus to begin with, or its an automatic NO. After that, Id like to see some matching by the co for everyones tesphe. Id like to see the minute back on our hourly break. These are all things that I think we as the rank and file have EARNED, by our sacrifices to help the co out in dark times. Its what is right. Id also like to see a system of self policing by the hourly employees put into effect. Set up a court, and handle violations in house using a point system to penalize offending workers. And for each violation we could take some pay away for the violations, like -.50 for any grown ass man\woman sucking on a chrome dildo, er I mean e-cig on the plant floor. you look like a douche. -.50 for any adult over the age of 21 wearing ear gauges. Our greatest generation didn't die on the beaches on D-Day so you could look like a circus freak at work. Show some respect. -.25 For neck tattoos, just because. -.50 For sagging pants. Again, youre an adult, and you know that's a prison thing advertising for companionship, right? -1.00 For any new hire wearing a Class of 2013, shirt. The majority of us are old and worn out. We don't need to be reminded of it. Although I agree in principle with some of your points, there are some other violations that should be considered as well. -.50 for rednecks (or anyone, but it's mostly rednecks) who pretend to know what they're talking about and like to boast when in truth they don't have any idea what the hell they're talking about, but are firm enough in their ignorance that they manage to convince other people of the validity of their bullshit. They don't know that we know who they are. -.75 for people who complain loudly about any particular contract book (That book there is worthless!) when they've never actually read it and are directly, presently benefitting greatly from any particular part of it, while they're dismissing it. It's just ridiculous. non violation: +.50 for people who complain loudly about a particular aspect of the contract after having read and properly understood said aspect, and do so articulately so the rest of us know what the hell you're talking about. (Not +.75 because people should be penalized more for stupidity than rewarded for what they should already know.) -.50 for people who help bosses work (they aren't supposed to work, there are good reasons for this...) -.50 for people who have worked here 10+ years and dont know one or more of the following: How much break time they get, whether per hour, or for working any number of hours, which would involve calculation (5xH). That working holidays isn't mandatory...... That we get a bonus every June under the current contract. That means next June too...But not necessarily the one after that... That you should be able to know what time 9.3, 10.2, or 10.6 translates into within 5 seconds. How to easily get a copy of every volume of the contract so you dont have to be at the mercy of others for information (see 1st penalty above). -1.00 for people who have worked here 20+ years and dont know one or more of the above. I mean, seriously. Before anybody's belt buckles start spinning, I'm just kidding. About the pay penalty. |
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Post by machination on Dec 10, 2014 0:56:51 GMT -5
Why is this an either/or question? We should demand both a raise for the Legacy employees and elimination of 2 tier. Yeah, one has nothing to do with the other. May not even be a ford employee that started this. If either were to be even the least bit considered it would almost certainly preclude the adoption of the other. This is how one has to do with the other. And I hate to be the one to point out the obvious, but Ford doesn't give a crap what we demand if they know we aren't united. Trust me, the company is very much united. |
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Post by fordworker95 on Dec 10, 2014 12:47:32 GMT -5
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Post by TonyV on Dec 10, 2014 16:09:40 GMT -5
Priorities for the contract should be:
1) Get retirees a raise
2) Get rid of 2-tier
3) Get COLA back (it gives you more than the raise will)
4) Pay raise
All of this should be done without changing any present benfit - pension, health insurance, etc.
It is time to stand together as one.
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Post by william on Dec 10, 2014 16:54:03 GMT -5
Legacy workers should get a minimum of $5 raise. Decade is too long to wait for a raise enough is enough.
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Post by william on Dec 10, 2014 17:08:10 GMT -5
That article says six thousand dollar signing bonus they need to call it what it is 3000 after the government gets their part
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Post by Ex-metalman on Dec 10, 2014 17:26:49 GMT -5
1)get a raise of substantial amount.. 2)get lowered tier a raise.(2 tier will never leave,it should of been fought the first time it was offered)like a strike? 3)get our holidays back. 4)get 1 min per hour break back .its a real bitch when your on a 10.7 schedule.that minute matters 5)Take care of the retirees .I mean they gave their whole life in here.Hopefully they are set financially .Most I know live a great life so keep it that way! 6)4 family days .we get 2 does that mean your family is only important 2 times thru the contract?How about a day a year ? 7)stop all the out sourcing.How many supervisors are going to retire only to come back in and check parts for a ungodly price.(I'm sure) If they have that much money to waste,how about a raise for all of us ? |
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Post by justaworker on Dec 10, 2014 17:43:00 GMT -5
That article says six thousand dollar signing bonus they need to call it what it is 3000 after the government gets their part Huh??? |
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Post by machination on Dec 10, 2014 20:16:43 GMT -5
Justaworker, as a moderator would you please clarify for me and everyone else why you considered removing my thread which covered this topic on the LAP forum. By the way, the poll was posted in both forums so that people who only read the forum that pertains to their plant could comment and/or vote, which is precisely why we have a forum for each plant, and this is a major issue for all plants. I don't believe I've violated any forum rules that would warrant the removal of my thread or poll. Please clarify why it was considered for removal.
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Post by justaworker on Dec 10, 2014 20:47:10 GMT -5
Justaworker, as a moderator would you please clarify for me and everyone else why you considered removing my thread which covered this topic on the LAP forum. By the way, the poll was posted in both forums so that people who only read the forum that pertains to their plant could comment and/or vote, which is precisely why we have a forum for each plant, and this is a major issue for all plants. I don't believe I've violated any forum rules that would warrant the removal of my thread or poll. Please clarify why it was considered for removal. Because the way you worded it, it's obvious trolling. Now quit whining so much. |
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Post by machination on Dec 11, 2014 11:59:13 GMT -5
The KTP board seems more supportive of their union brothers than the LAP board. So much for "Happy Land"  |
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ktpgirl
Amateur
A journey of 1,000 miles begins with a single step.
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Post by ktpgirl on Dec 11, 2014 13:56:26 GMT -5
Here we go with the guilt trip. Let me ask this. Would new hires give up raises so employees with 10+ years could get a raise that we so rightfully deserve? I will never vote for a contract that doesn't benefit me. I hope all employees win with this contract but when it's all said, it's my house payment and kids I pay for and that's what I care most about.
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Post by saugerman on Dec 11, 2014 14:18:42 GMT -5
Here we go with the guilt trip. Let me ask this. Would new hires give up raises so employees with 10+ years could get a raise that we so rightfully deserve? I will never vote for a contract that doesn't benefit me. I hope all employees win with this contract but when it's all said, it's my house payment and kids I pay for and that's what I care most about. bingo couldn't of said it better |
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Post by saugerman on Dec 11, 2014 14:21:59 GMT -5
For me, I have to see hourly raises, return of COLA, time and a half on C crew Saturdays, end of 2 tier, and return of retiree Christmas bonus to begin with, or its an automatic NO. After that, Id like to see some matching by the co for everyones tesphe. Id like to see the minute back on our hourly break. These are all things that I think we as the rank and file have EARNED, by our sacrifices to help the co out in dark times. Its what is right. Id also like to see a system of self policing by the hourly employees put into effect. Set up a court, and handle violations in house using a point system to penalize offending workers. And for each violation we could take some pay away for the violations, like -.50 for any grown ass man\woman sucking on a chrome dildo, er I mean e-cig on the plant floor. you look like a douche. -.50 for any adult over the age of 21 wearing ear gauges. Our greatest generation didn't die on the beaches on D-Day so you could look like a circus freak at work. Show some respect. -.25 For neck tattoos, just because. -.50 For sagging pants. Again, youre an adult, and you know that's a prison thing advertising for companionship, right? -1.00 For any new hire wearing a Class of 2013, shirt. The majority of us are old and worn out. We don't need to be reminded of it. you seem to have a thing about prison and chrome dildos....not judging just making an observation |
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Post by machination on Dec 11, 2014 16:13:51 GMT -5
I was hoping this poll would provoke a good, strong discussion of this issue, and I'm glad it has. One thing is certain: We, as workers who only have the good aspects of what we have (the middle-class life) due to the efforts of decades of unionized negotiation and the blood, sweat, and tears of the parents and grandparents and beyond that came before us, who fought harder for what we have than we have, must be united and have each others backs. We don't want to be the generation of workers that failed to help the next. We must be united. That's what a real union and brotherhood, that everyone seems to say they want, is.
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Post by lap65 on Dec 12, 2014 12:40:41 GMT -5
For me, I have to see hourly raises, return of COLA, time and a half on C crew Saturdays, end of 2 tier, and return of retiree Christmas bonus to begin with, or its an automatic NO. After that, Id like to see some matching by the co for everyones tesphe. Id like to see the minute back on our hourly break. These are all things that I think we as the rank and file have EARNED, by our sacrifices to help the co out in dark times. Its what is right. Id also like to see a system of self policing by the hourly employees put into effect. Set up a court, and handle violations in house using a point system to penalize offending workers. And for each violation we could take some pay away for the violations, like -.50 for any grown ass man\woman sucking on a chrome dildo, er I mean e-cig on the plant floor. you look like a douche. -.50 for any adult over the age of 21 wearing ear gauges. Our greatest generation didn't die on the beaches on D-Day so you could look like a circus freak at work. Show some respect. -.25 For neck tattoos, just because. -.50 For sagging pants. Again, youre an adult, and you know that's a prison thing advertising for companionship, right? -1.00 For any new hire wearing a Class of 2013, shirt. The majority of us are old and worn out. We don't need to be reminded of it. Now thats funny right there. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2014 14:58:06 GMT -5
What? A pension pays you for life and contains health benefits and is at least somewhat guaranteed by erisa. The only way it disappears is if we vote it away. It's the 401k that can disappear tomorrow. I don't often post here but this one is so ignorant I had to. Ive voted no on every contract to date. '99 hire here Wow, you really should research exactly how a pension plan works, who funds it, and who gaurantees it. It does pay a lifetime...yours...so if you drop dead 6 months after doing your 30 your pension is history. If the company is placing money into an account in YOUR name for 30 years & you drop dead 6 months after you retire. YOU decide who gets what is left. I had a parent that was retired have their pension go into default, the governement agency that "gaurantees" the pension pays about 40% of what is should have been. Give me my money in an account in MY name, no way do i trust the company or union to gaurantee my pension & if you do, you my friend are the ignorant one. Yeah, and my grandpa worked for 20 years at a factory, took medical retirement and drew a pension for 30 years until he died, then his wife drew until she died. Pensions used to work that way. If u retire and then die, u lose I guess. But then again, you're dead. And oh yeah you already have the tesphe which is what entry levels get with the exception of the small match. In exchange for that match you will draw a pension that will pay until you die. Money in your 401 can run out. Ur pension won't . Ford has never ever missed a pension payment yet. It was so overfunded a few years back they used it to pay for all those buy outs. But whatever, you're a genius. |
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A pension pays you for life and contains health benefits and is at least somewhat guaranteed by erisa. The only way it disappears is if we vote it away. It's the 401k that can disappear tomorrow. I don't often post here but this one is so ignorant I had to. Ive voted no on every contract to date. '99 hire here
