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Post by sonofberl on Jan 14, 2010 17:59:05 GMT -5
WASHINGTON – In a major breakthrough, union leaders bowed Thursday to White House demands for a new tax on high-cost health plans as part of landmark health care legislation taking final shape in intensive negotiations.
The tentative agreement on the tax, which included significant concessions by the administration, was disclosed as leading lawmakers set an informal timetable of Friday for an agreement on the health care bill that President Ba Obama made a top priority in taking office a year ago.
Democrats expressed the hope that the agreement would quickly open the way for progress on other key issues where House and Senate-passed bills differ, as well as attempts by the White House to squeeze additional financial concessions from drug makers, nursing homes and other health care providers.
On a separate issue, makers of generic drugs, backed by the White House and a senior congressional ally, sought to reduce the patent protection that pharmaceutical companies receive for their new-to-market biotech products. The House and Senate bills both limit competition for 12 years.
The fast-paced events came as senior lawmakers went to the White House for the second straight day of bargaining over terms of a final compromise, and Obama arranged an appearance before the House Democratic rank-and-file in late afternoon Thursday in the Capitol complex.
The president wants legislation to expand health care to millions who lack it, c down on insurance industry practices such as denial of benefits on the basis of pre-existing medical conditions and slow the growth of health care costs generally.
The president has told lawmakers he wants the tax on high-cost plans included in the legislation to help rein in costs. But that position courted conflict with labor leaders who fear exposing their membership to higher taxes, as well as with House Democrats who omitted it from the legislation they initially passed.
The day's events underscored the urgency with which the White House and top Democrats were working, and the tentative agreement on a new tax on high-cost plans was the most prominent fruit of the effort.
"This was a very critical issue that had to be resolved, and I think it has been," said Rep. Rob Andrews, D-N.J., who told reporters he had been briefed on the emerging agreement to impose a tax on costly insurance plans.
While not all details were set, it appeared the union leaders had backed down on their outright opposition to a new tax, and the White House had agreed to several concessions to mollify their concerns.
In a significant victory for unions, the 40 percent excise tax would not apply to policies covering workers in collective bargaining agreements, state and local workers and members of voluntary employee benefit associations through Dec. 31, 2017.
Rep. Joe Courtney, D-Conn., and others said the tax would apply to fewer plans than was the case in the Senate-passed bill and would exclude the value of dental and vision coverage. They added it would provide an exemption for residents of states where the cost of health care is particularly high, as well as for employees of high-risk professions.
A union official familiar with the details said the tentative agreement would raise the threshold on insurance policies subject to tax from $8,500 in the Senate-passed bill to $8,900 for singles and from $23,000 to $24,000 for family coverage. Even the new thresholds would be subject to adjustment if unexpected rises in health care occur by the time the plan is effective, this official said.
Additionally, AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka told reporters that beginning in 2017, health plans covered by collective bargaining agreements would be permitted to seek coverage in insurance exchanges that would be set up under the bill to allow consumers to shop for coverage issued under federal regulations.
Originally, the tax included in the Senate bill was estimated to raise $149 billion through 2019. Trumka said the revisions would reduce that amount by $60 billion — money that negotiators would have to find elsewhere or else reduce the coverage in the legislation.
While the tax would be applied to high-cost plans, the Congressional Budget Office has said its principal impact would be to prompt consumers to purchase lower-value coverage. That, in turn, would raise the income tax they pay by reducing the deduction they can take for health care.
Officials said the agreement was thrashed out over more than 15 hours of negotiating at the White House that ended after midnight Wednesday. Participants included Trumka; Andy Stern, head of Service Employees International Union; Anna Burger, head of Change to Win, and the leaders of unions representing teachers, government workers, food and commercial workers, and electricians. Obama's deputy chief of staff, Jim Messina, was the lead White House bargainer, although Vice President Joe Biden also was involved periodically.
The officials who provided details did so on condition of anonymity, saying they were not authorized to pre-empt a formal announcement.
In an indication that lawmakers and the White House were driving for a swift agreement, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., and House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, D-Md., issued a statement pledging to have any final bill posted online for 72 hours before a vote is called.
A spokesman said the plan would require the Congressional Budget Office to issue a formal report on the bill's cost and coverage before the 72-hour clock began running.
Once a final compromise is reached, Democrats intend for a vote first in the House, then a final showdown in the Senate. There, Majority Leader Harry Reid will need to post a 60-vote majority to clear the way for final passage.
Republican opposition has been virtually unanimous in both houses — only Rep. Anh (Joseph) Cao of Louisiana among GOP lawmakers has voted for the bill — and there is not a vote to spare in the Senate.
There, Democrats have 58 votes; independents aligned with them hold two.
Party leaders deeply involved in the health care negotiations watched nervously as a Massachusetts Senate campaign to fill the seat of the late Sen. Edward Kennedy neared an unpredictable end. There, private polling showed Republican Scott Brown well within striking distance of upsetting state Attorney General Martha Coakley.
Coakley, a Democrat, is a supporter of the bill.
Brown has vowed to oppose it, and his vote would give Republicans the strength they need to sustain a filibuster, thus killing the bill.
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Post by lap2ktpdave on Jan 14, 2010 21:13:31 GMT -5
When we are all paying $100.00 or more a week TAX on our healthcare we have given up so much for I hope everyone who voted for obama is still proud of the son-of-a-bitch!!!!!
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Jan 15, 2010 0:15:40 GMT -5
We have been talking about this since they were campaigning...they are attempting to keep the "Cadillac Plans" offered to us (UAW) tax-exempt...but how can you keep only the union plans tax-exempt while every other non-union plan is taxed at 40%. I guess we will see how much the millions given to the democratic party work in our favor. I say they won't and we will all be taxed to high heaven by these money spending liberals. Obama is trying his best to ruin the economy so millions more are dependent on HIS government plans. The more control he has over the people, the better for his liberal agenda. USSA is coming!  |
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Jan 15, 2010 12:52:20 GMT -5
This is just the latest attempt by the UAW to continue their effort in selling us out. The same people they give millions in campaign support to continue to tax us. Take our money with new and higher taxes so others can have insurance. Spread the wealth baby, spread the wealth.
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Post by joeg9100 on Jan 15, 2010 12:53:08 GMT -5
I think this whole Cadillac insurance deal is just one more form of corruption on behalf of the Unions. They threatened the law makers just the other day. I don't buy the contract crap floating around as an excuse. They could extend an exception to all and be fair. They can trump the contracts too.
So, for all of you out there that feel slighted consider this, we have money too. I have five vehicles out in the front yard, well four now my daughter is up at college. All these vehicles are union made, even the Mazda has a sticker on it. I really like that car and was going to replace it with another one. Not now, I will not buy any more Union made cars. If they come out of a Union factory I will look elsewhere. I can buy Toyota trucks they not union made and for the cars we have lots of choices. Though I like the Mazda and our Fusion. I'm not putting my money into a corrupt system.
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Post by TheyCanDoThat on Jan 15, 2010 13:42:27 GMT -5
I think this whole Cadillac insurance deal is just one more form of corruption on behalf of the Unions. They threatened the law makers just the other day. I don't buy the contract crap floating around as an excuse. They could extend an exception to all and be fair. They can trump the contracts too. So, for all of you out there that feel slighted consider this, we have money too. I have five vehicles out in the front yard, well four now my daughter is up at college. All these vehicles are union made, even the Mazda has a sticker on it. I really like that car and was going to replace it with another one. Not now, I will not buy any more Union made cars. If they come out of a Union factory I will look elsewhere. I can buy Toyota trucks they not union made and for the cars we have lots of choices. Though I like the Mazda and our Fusion. I'm not putting my money into a corrupt system. If you hate the UAW so much why not quit FORD and go work for Teaota?After all if your thinking of buying a Teaota they must be a better product than FORD.And those non union plants treat their employees you so much better than any Union shop! |
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Post by joeg9100 on Jan 15, 2010 14:24:31 GMT -5
I don't work for Ford I just buy their products. I don't hate the UAW either, (Sorry to vent on you guys since there are more unions involved ) However I don't like the Idea that the rest of the country will be paying the extra 90B for your health plans. I have no other recourse to vent my displeasure at the capitulation by the controlled democrats. BTW, I have supported you guys for 40 years it is enough.
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Post by trinitus on Jan 15, 2010 14:25:06 GMT -5
I can't sit here any longer without commenting, so here I go. Even if they successfully get us tax exempt for now, if and when the Republican party gets back in control that will change. We will be taxed on this sooner or later. Now on to Obama ruining this country. Back when George W. Bush was in office, which really wasn't that long ago, the people who voted Democratic complained the same thing then that President Bush was ruining this country. They are all the same any more. You got Lieberman who is a Democrat holding office on a Liberal ticket. You got Jefferies a Republican holding office on a Democratic ticket. They are all in this together and when we the people wake and smell the coffee we need to vote everyone of them out and put real Americans in there to uphold what our Forefathers did back then and that was to represent the people! Kinda like our union reps right now. They are only in there due to the buddy system and they do not care about us the rank and file members. Look at the shit that King and Gettlefinger have done in the last two years.
The Unions typically vote democratic only because the Democrat's tend to support the working man. Now they call it working Families. Bottom line, all our elected people in D.C. is corrupt. We need to change that before we can move forward. If we just go by the Constitution then anyone can do it. ScottR you may have hit the nail on the head when you said this is just another attempt for our Unions to sell us out. Take our money and run.
joeg9100, First off when all these UNION CARS are sold the first time, the money gos to the company not the UNION. We as employee's pay the Union to represent us the hourly worker. It doesn't matter if the car or truck is Union made or not because none of the profits go to the Union. Another dumb ass who thinks the Union runs the world I guess. If you like Crapota's so damn much, they just had this thing called the buyout. Why in the hell didn't you take it if you truly feel that way. As for you having so many cars in your yard well that is your own dumb luck. Quit buying so damn many.
Brian435, I agree completely. I did hate telling joeg, to take the buyout but I feel that this time it had to be said.
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Post by marcus on Jan 15, 2010 15:25:20 GMT -5
To think we wont have to pay in crazy thinking.This Crap has been shoved down our throats and most americans dont want it period!
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Post by joeg9100 on Jan 15, 2010 15:56:20 GMT -5
Trinitus,
Good post you have a good grip of our political system. I believe the same way. My gripe and it looks like I'm in the wrong group for this is.. that why should one small group of folks get treated better than the rest of us? I don't know anything about union politics and yes, I do know they don't run companies. But can't the rank and file send a message to the leadership this thing sucks, is unfair and could really hurt unions in the long run?
If people like me get pissed at the unions they just stop buying cars, Ford closes factories and that puts pressure on the union bosses.
For me I am a Retired E E. I never worked at a union shop, hence my ignorance about the subject. Trust me I would have loved to gotten bought out by my company instead of retirement.
I have Kids who go to school and need cars to get there hence the number of cars.
You are all right that the government will ruin health care for most all of us with good plans.
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Post by ktpelec on Jan 16, 2010 11:56:47 GMT -5
The way things were for our forefathers has been gone for a long time. Those leaders and law makers could never have imagined 350 Million people depending on the thier initial ideas for a Government. Every day the population rises, that will always have the most impact on what people think is just or fair. We the working middle class will always have to bear the greatest burden because we are the largest percentage of Americans.
Union membership in this country is at its all time lowest. The International UAW has to represent all of it's members, not just the people at Ford, or just in Kentucky, every one, and we all think something different is the most important issue.
I don't know how we determine who the "real American" politicians are? Are they people that only care about white, middle aged factory workers? Are they people that only care about salary paid office workers? How about farmers, I don't know about the "Union" they are in. America is a huge country with many types of concerns and issues, and these number of these will continue to grow along with the population. Things will never be "fair" some people will always pay more, work harder for less, or never have enough to eat. If evrything was the same for everyone in this country then we would be Socialists, right?
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Post by justaworker on Jan 16, 2010 13:05:46 GMT -5
I don't know how we determine who the "real American" politicians are? they're the one who want LESS gov't control over our lives. so that we can live free and either succeed or fail on our own. |
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Post by trinitus on Jan 19, 2010 14:41:51 GMT -5
The way things were for our forefathers has been gone for a long time. Those leaders and law makers could never have imagined 350 Million people depending on the thier initial ideas for a Government. Every day the population rises, that will always have the most impact on what people think is just or fair. We the working middle class will always have to bear the greatest burden because we are the largest percentage of Americans. Union membership in this country is at its all time lowest. The International UAW has to represent all of it's members, not just the people at Ford, or just in Kentucky, every one, and we all think something different is the most important issue. I don't know how we determine who the "real American" politicians are? Are they people that only care about white, middle aged factory workers? Are they people that only care about salary paid office workers? How about farmers, I don't know about the "Union" they are in. America is a huge country with many types of concerns and issues, and these number of these will continue to grow along with the population. Things will never be "fair" some people will always pay more, work harder for less, or never have enough to eat. If evrything was the same for everyone in this country then we would be Socialists, right? Ktpelct, I didn't want to do this but I feel I have to answer some things that you brought up. What our Fore Father's did back yes. it is true those ideas have long left this country. The basics of what they put down on paper still holds true today. The only problem there is that the people who get elected into office have lost what our Fore Father's imagined. A real American is someone who can speak their peace and get on with whatever is needed to be done. The elected people in Washington D. C. today have no idea why they are put there. A real American IS NOT a middle class, middle aged white man. A real American loves this country and will defend it no matter what. Kinda like what you or I would do if someone invaded our home. Yes, the middle class will bear the brunt of this new tax shit about ready to come down the line. No one on here can deny that. We need people in Washington D.C. who will represent us the working man and woman of America. Not some son-of-bitch who is looking to retire from the political scene. Those are the ones that have hurt this country. Our President's term of office is spelled out, why can't we do the same for our House of Representatives and for our Senate? No more free trips for them. Time for real Americans to step up to the plate and stop all this bullshit in the nation's Capitol. I know this will fall on deaf ears but I just had to vent my two cents on this. Oh by-the-way in our constitution it states that all men are created equal. It does not state that all middle aged, middle class white men are created equal. The last time I checked the anatomy books, if you had a hairy cock and nutsack below your waistline then you were considered a man. |
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Post by sanjay on Jan 20, 2010 16:50:42 GMT -5
When we are all paying $100.00 or more a week TAX on our healthcare we have given up so much for I hope everyone who voted for obama is still proud of the son-of-a-bitch!!!!! |
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Post by sanjay on Jan 20, 2010 16:51:25 GMT -5
what
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Jan 21, 2010 0:43:18 GMT -5
Due to the recent election...this issue should be dead now...thank god.
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Post by ktpelec on Jan 21, 2010 10:42:15 GMT -5
I don't know how we determine who the "real American" politicians are? they're the one who want LESS gov't control over our lives. so that we can live free and either succeed or fail on our own. The term "live free" is quite vague. Free to do what ever you choose? Free to live where ever you want? Free to rob and pilage others less fortunate? "Less Government control" now does that only apply to factory workers or to Wall Street investors and bankers also? With 350 million Americans there are a lot of different ideas as to what "Free" is or means. |
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Post by Calvin@KTP on Jan 21, 2010 17:07:37 GMT -5
Due to the recent election...this issue should be dead now...thank god. Actually the "Cadillac" health plan tax is in the Senate bill that was passed on Christmas Eve. The deal to exclude this tax was going to be in the final bill that would have been reconciled and voted on by the House and Senate. Now that the democrats no longer have the filibuster proof "super-majority" (60 seats in the senate) their only choice may be to just pass the senate bill as is which includes the tax on "Cadillac" health care plans. |
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Jan 21, 2010 21:50:52 GMT -5
There's no way the democrats will hurt the working man...they love the working people.
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Post by Calvin@KTP on Jan 22, 2010 16:05:16 GMT -5
I agree...the good people of Mass. voting in a republican almost caused us to get the extra Healthcare tax. However, it seems that the House is not going to pass the Senate bill as is.
So it looks like we are off the hook for now.
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Post by ktpking on Jan 25, 2010 8:30:33 GMT -5
I think this whole Cadillac insurance deal is just one more form of corruption on behalf of the Unions. They threatened the law makers just the other day. I don't buy the contract crap floating around as an excuse. They could extend an exception to all and be fair. They can trump the contracts too. So, for all of you out there that feel slighted consider this, we have money too. I have five vehicles out in the front yard, well four now my daughter is up at college. All these vehicles are union made, even the Mazda has a sticker on it. I really like that car and was going to replace it with another one. Not now, I will not buy any more Union made cars. If they come out of a Union factory I will look elsewhere. I can buy Toyota trucks they not union made and for the cars we have lots of choices. Though I like the Mazda and our Fusion. I'm not putting my money into a corrupt system. If you hate the UAW so much why not quit FORD and go work for Teaota?After all if your thinking of buying a Teaota they must be a better product than FORD.And those non union plants treat their employees you so much better than any Union shop! I love the fact that people on here race to say "why don't you quit" "Take the buyout" Do they not have the right to say what they feel? I guess we are converting to a socialist country after all. If you don't swing on the UAW's nuts you are an enemy of the working man. If you want to be the UAW or FORD police why do you trott yourself to KTP and start at gate 0. The lot is full of Toyotas, BMWs, Hondas, chevys, pontiacs, cadallics, GMCs, numerous other automobiles and trucks. These are people who work for Ford. The poster said he does not work for Ford. If you can convert those Ford employees to drive Ford products I will fully support your cause. |
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Post by ktpking on Jan 25, 2010 8:32:42 GMT -5
When we are all paying $100.00 or more a week TAX on our healthcare we have given up so much for I hope everyone who voted for obama is still proud of the son-of-a-bitch!!!!! OOOOOHHHHHHH, that is just the start of the taxes. Under this administration we will be fully government dependent. |
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Post by feduphighly on Jan 25, 2010 12:32:45 GMT -5
If you hate the UAW so much why not quit FORD and go work for Teaota?After all if your thinking of buying a Teaota they must be a better product than FORD.And those non union plants treat their employees you so much better than any Union shop! I agree u wok for Ford you need to drive a ford forget helping others Support who u work for . I love the fact that people on here race to say "why don't you quit" "Take the buyout" Do they not have the right to say what they feel? I guess we are converting to a socialist country after all. If you don't swing on the UAW's nuts you are an enemy of the working man. If you want to be the UAW or FORD police why do you trott yourself to KTP and start at gate 0. The lot is full of Toyotas, BMWs, Hondas, chevys, pontiacs, cadallics, GMCs, numerous other automobiles and trucks. These are people who work for Ford. The poster said he does not work for Ford. If you can convert those Ford employees to drive Ford products I will fully support your cause. |
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Post by Calvin@KTP on Jan 25, 2010 16:16:52 GMT -5
If you hate the UAW so much why not quit FORD and go work for Teaota?After all if your thinking of buying a Teaota they must be a better product than FORD.And those non union plants treat their employees you so much better than any Union shop! I love the fact that people on here race to say "why don't you quit" "Take the buyout" Do they not have the right to say what they feel? I guess we are converting to a socialist country after all. If you don't swing on the UAW's nuts you are an enemy of the working man. If you want to be the UAW or FORD police why do you trott yourself to KTP and start at gate 0. The lot is full of Toyotas, BMWs, Hondas, chevys, pontiacs, cadallics, GMCs, numerous other automobiles and trucks. These are people who work for Ford. The poster said he does not work for Ford. If you can convert those Ford employees to drive Ford products I will fully support your cause. There are over 5000 Ford employees at KTP. I see lot 0 everyday. There probably less that 100 non-Ford vehicles in that lot. Alot of them are just old beaters that people drive back and forth to work. So lot 0 is not really full of non-Ford vehicles. |
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Post by ktpking on Jan 26, 2010 2:41:58 GMT -5
I love the fact that people on here race to say "why don't you quit" "Take the buyout" Do they not have the right to say what they feel? I guess we are converting to a socialist country after all. If you don't swing on the UAW's nuts you are an enemy of the working man. If you want to be the UAW or FORD police why do you trott yourself to KTP and start at gate 0. The lot is full of Toyotas, BMWs, Hondas, chevys, pontiacs, cadallics, GMCs, numerous other automobiles and trucks. These are people who work for Ford. The poster said he does not work for Ford. If you can convert those Ford employees to drive Ford products I will fully support your cause. There are over 5000 Ford employees at KTP. I see lot 0 everyday. There probably less that 100 non-Ford vehicles in that lot. Alot of them are just old beaters that people drive back and forth to work. So lot 0 is not really full of non-Ford vehicles. Ok, Calvin@ktp since we are going to nickle dime each other with specifics. We have 3 crews working at KTP, I bet we have more than 100 non Ford vehicles during those 3 crew shifts. I pass the same gate everyday also and I see a lot full of non Ford vehicles from the road. I have never been in the lot to take a survey. Sure looks full from Chamberlain Lane too me and non Ford employees driving by. |
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Post by ktpelec on Jan 26, 2010 7:02:37 GMT -5
So what is your point? Is it, that not everyone thinks alike, everyone doesn't see things in the same way?? Everyones priorities are different, you cannot force people to change thier way of thinking.
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Post by feduphighly on Jan 26, 2010 12:52:25 GMT -5
There are over 5000 Ford employees at KTP. I see lot 0 everyday. There probably less that 100 non-Ford vehicles in that lot. Alot of them are just old beaters that people drive back and forth to work. So lot 0 is not really full of non-Ford vehicles. Ok, Calvin@ktp since we are going to nickle dime each other with specifics. We have 3 crews working at KTP, I bet we have more than 100 non Ford vehicles during those 3 crew shifts. I pass the same gate everyday also and I see a lot full of non Ford vehicles from the road. I have never been in the lot to take a survey. Sure looks full from Chamberlain Lane too me and non Ford employees driving by. |
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Post by feduphighly on Jan 26, 2010 13:00:26 GMT -5
So what is your point? Is it, that not everyone thinks alike, everyone doesn't see things in the same way?? Everyones priorities are different, you cannot force people to change thier way of thinking. I think If you work for Ford you should drive a ford to support who u work for.What would happen if Ford decided that non ford vehicles are not allowed on company property at all what would u do then?Maybe Ford needs to step up to the plate and do this ,then guess what A Company With All Fords In The Lot I think that would be so funny and more money for Ford if u buy new.Also people going by sees non Ford in the lot thinks they dont buy them why should we Buy and drive Ford prducts Just my 2 cents worth |
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Post by Calvin@KTP on Jan 26, 2010 16:38:10 GMT -5
There are over 5000 Ford employees at KTP. I see lot 0 everyday. There probably less that 100 non-Ford vehicles in that lot. Alot of them are just old beaters that people drive back and forth to work. So lot 0 is not really full of non-Ford vehicles. Ok, Calvin@ktp since we are going to nickle dime each other with specifics. We have 3 crews working at KTP, I bet we have more than 100 non Ford vehicles during those 3 crew shifts. I pass the same gate everyday also and I see a lot full of non Ford vehicles from the road. I have never been in the lot to take a survey. Sure looks full from Chamberlain Lane too me and non Ford employees driving by. I'm not nickle diming you. You said lot 0 was full of toyotas, hondas and BMW's. It's not even close. The last two rows are for non-Fords. That's why it looks full from Chamberlain Lane. The other 90% of the lot is full of Fords that belong to paint and body shop workers. Sometimes reading this board is like listening to Glenn Beck. Everything is terrible. The world is coming to and end all the time. Most of the time the facts do not support the claims. |
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