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Post by lucero on Apr 28, 2010 16:54:39 GMT -5
If this is true, I would not be suprised at all! And I WILL be asking about this tomorrow.
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Post by pmooret on Apr 28, 2010 17:07:06 GMT -5
This is nothing new and has been going on for as long a I can remember (hired in '88). It almost always happens at contract time also. Everyone gets the same representation regardless of race, color, creed, religion, sexual orientation, drug or alcohol abuse or number of days missed; it is not a sliding scale. If drug or alcohol was a factor then these people are subjected to random testing.
To err is human and our local has always reached out to help those who have strayed. Let's just say that it is their usual and customary practice. The fact that we have people on ILO status does not affect past practice, that's just how the cookie crumbled this time and it's hard to digest.
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Apr 28, 2010 19:17:58 GMT -5
Bad record or not, seniority is still the key. Remember the drug raid? Almost every single one of the people that were fired were given their job back, except one I believe...and from what I heard, he was offered his job back but refused. I don't know anything about the person that just got their job back, but this is the worst part of having the union fight for pieces of crap. Most union reps will tell you they don't approve of the pieces of crap either...but legally and contractually, they have to fight for all of us...role model employees or pieces of crap. It is VERY hard to get fired at Ford...you really have to mess up. One example of a possible reason for termination...addiction. Someone battling addiction may miss LOTS of work days...but they always get to use the addiction as an excuse. But it really is an excuse...it's a disease. It would be like firing everyone with diabetes, heart disease, cancer, etc... For that matter, if it weren't for the union, as soon as you get carpal tunnel or some other injury which makes you useless to the company, they would fire you. There are many angles to these stories...I completely understand where you are coming from, but without knowing the entire stories of those terminated, it's hard to pass judgment. Sorry bout all the rambling...  |
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Post by lap65 on Apr 28, 2010 20:04:37 GMT -5
I have always had a problem with the "I have to represent everyone" line. If the union is for the good of the whole, the good of the whole is not being represented when you help people who don't deserve to be helped. I'm not talking about people with diseases, carpal tunnel etc. Although if you have an addiction problem & have been helped numerous times through rehab & continue to go back to it then I don't believe you are taking the help seriously, I know personally of people who came in high or drunk on purpose so they could go to rehab & not have to work, but thats another issue. I'm talking about people who just don't care & because they know the union will bail them out they will never care. I would like to see where the contract says you have to try and get a person their job back when they haven't even tried. How do you represent someone like that. On the other hand it is up to Ford to say yes or no to taking them back. What would cause Ford to take back such a person? What could a union rep possibly say to convince Ford to give someone another chance who has repeated offenses? They would have to get something to make it worth their while. Makes you go hmmm...
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Post by ackspac on Apr 28, 2010 20:41:45 GMT -5
Iam on ILO and I know where the original poster is coming from. It is hard to swallow the fact that the union brings these people back to work. I have talked to a slew of people who dont care for unions because of this fact. Most of the replys from them wasnt about how much we made, it was about how the union protects the lazy people or the ones who dont want to work. Point proven right here.
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Post by nvsked1 on Apr 28, 2010 21:29:40 GMT -5
First off I will tell you my name so no one thinks I am hiding behind my Login ID. My name is Natalie Taylor. I am employed at LAP, as a matter of fact it will be 21 years in June. I am very upset to find out that our wonderful UAW reps have brought back a person or persons ( because let's be real, we know they never bring back just one, it's usually done in a group) who were dismissed for absenteeism or other disciplinary problems. Here's the gut kicker. I am enraged to know that we have people that are on ILO who showed up for work everyday and had good work records that are on the street right now while our reps have helped bring these people back. Some of these people have been terminated for years. They had been repeatedly given opportunities to clean up their act and still didn't care enough to do it and so they were terminated. Now I don't want to hear Ford brought them back. Yes Ford allowed them to come back because our UAW reps negotiated with them for this to happen. If I were an ILO person, especially let's say number 1-5 at the top of the list and that close to having a job back at our plant, I'd be making a visit to my fern Valley Union office and asking for a REAL GOOD explanation. KTP is still trying to cut people and so is LAP, so how did these people slide back in?? Did they lay off some more of our employees at LAP to make a spot for them. If they had openings why didn't they call top seniority on the ILO's and ask them to come back. HOW DID THIS HAPPEN I ASK?  I WANT ANSWERS AND YOU SHOULD TOO!!!!! Also I apologize for any typos you may find because my mind is running faster than I can type because I AM PISSED OFF . I have an answer for you.... You may not like it. Its called union dues....Sorry I won't be as nice as Scott R. Who made you boss! Who says you get to decide who gets to come back, and what reasons are valid. I respect your right to voice an opinion but that opinion is not the law of the land. Paying those dues monthly, requires the Union to represent your interest to the best of their ability...Yours, Mine and anyone else who pays dues at Ford if you don't like the way things work then...But don't sit in judgment of someone unless you be judged. But thanks for sharing your opinion, I just don't agree Take care |
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Post by ihatemyjob on Apr 28, 2010 22:00:54 GMT -5
The original poster isnt out of line about this at all. The person who was brought back was fired for threatening to kill someone. Id say thats plenty valid reason not to hire someone back especially when there are laid of employees. I dont give a damn if someone paid union dues or not, if someone is fired for threatening to kill someone then they should never be rehired. Guess its gonna take someone actually going off and doing something crazy inside the plant before Ford and the UAW learn their lesson.
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Post by intheloop on Apr 28, 2010 22:50:51 GMT -5
I just would like to know, if this rehired employee follows through on their threat who would be liable the company or the union?
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Post by axleman on Apr 29, 2010 5:53:19 GMT -5
I wasn't going to start a post about this person when I saw her walking up the isle, but since it's started I just have to say this is totel BS! I heard the story from the union about the legalities of representation etc. etc. Why bring her back NOW!! Make her wait till after we retool and bring the ILO's back first. As usual Ford and the UAW reward bad behavior. It's the same old people walking around selling chances, on light duty, on the easiest jobs because they WON'T work they take more of the unions time in representing them. Gives unions a bad name and they deserve it!! This is one reason I refuse to get involved with the UAW and all there BS. If you get fired (almost impossible) you should be out of here! She said she was going to kill someone, was out for 2YRS! got rehired, now if she makes good on her threat the lawyers are gonna have a field day. And they should! Thanks UAW for the fine way you take care of the MAJORITY of your good employees. Moral at a all time LOW!
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Mr Happy
Novice
Hope your friggin happy with your YES vote:(
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Post by Mr Happy on Apr 29, 2010 5:54:34 GMT -5
Natalie you speak the truth.This is just another reason why the 90% of the population hates unions.
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Post by axleman on Apr 29, 2010 8:11:46 GMT -5
I heard she got her time back. Don't know it for a fact, just what I heard. Didn't hear anything about backpay.
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Post by keithf on Apr 29, 2010 14:30:34 GMT -5
wow, i feel like the union does a much better job representing the deadbeats...than they have done for us on ILO.
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Post by pmooret on Apr 29, 2010 14:53:45 GMT -5
pmooret you are a much better person than me to be able to accept this and move on. Can you seriously say you are content to move ahead and pretend it doesn't matter that we have a whole shift of people laid off and more deserving of the jobs. These ILO's paid union dues all the way to the end. These rehires haven't even showed loyalty to the Union or Ford Motor Company when they were here years back. How can you say a person with a bad record deserves better treatment than a person with a really good record? Fatnat, if you read again carefully you will notice that I only stated facts, not my opinion. |
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Post by lap65 on Apr 29, 2010 18:00:26 GMT -5
Saying you have to be represented when you do something worthy of being fired because you pay dues is like me telling a police officer after getting pulled over for a DUI that I pay taxes. Guess what, I'm still going to jail. And if I continue the behaviour I will lose my license & possibly stay in jail. If a criminal pays taxes, he's still a criminal. If a deadbeat who doesn't want to work pays union dues, they're still a deadbeat. And we wonder why the public hates unions.
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Post by sweettnt on Apr 29, 2010 18:35:03 GMT -5
When you post on here you need to know all the facts.It was brought to my attention that this person that they brought back to work has a lot of time.They also took this all the way to Detroit.This person was off work a lot with a child that had a lot of medical problems with hips and had lots of surgerys on hips and feet., with one person to take care of the problems.Yes we have a lot of people laid off at this time,but there is not one of these people that would not have done the same thing.This person didn't make anyone hate the union,if you hate the union then you hated the union from way back,so don't blame it on someone else.SENORITY RULES it makes no difference the work record,Ford gave them another chance and so did UAW. Lets hope they would give you the same treatmentif needed.Now myob
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Post by keithf on Apr 29, 2010 18:49:56 GMT -5
ford didn't GIVE them another chance. ford fired them, then the union negotiated them back. wonder what we gave up?
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Apr 29, 2010 19:03:53 GMT -5
People, people, people...when did we become so soft? Working in a factory is supposed to be hard. I could not tell you how many people I have threatened to beat their arse in my 17+ yrs...both hourly and salary. But we handled it then and there...and some were never handled. We have "insanity leave" for a reason...working for Ford will make you nuttier than when you started. If you started a little nutty, you are screwed. I have no problem with a boss or hourly brother/sister cussing me out...beats the two-faced back stabbing we have grown accustomed to. As for someone being fired for threatening the well-being of someone...I should have been fired at least 4 times by now. Toughen up people...maybe the person she threatened deserved it...just saying.  If you are fired...there is no way you are paying union dues...if you don't work for Ford, you are not an active union participant. Back pay...no way I say. Getting lost time back...possible. But could lose seniority towards bidding, rolling, etc... But no way she loses seniority towards retirement. You have to work so many hours in a calendar year to get a credit towards retirement...if you are fired, you don't get credits for those years. If they come back now, work some OT this year...they should get the needed hours to get this year's credit. |
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Post by axleman on Apr 29, 2010 21:21:14 GMT -5
When you post on here you need to know all the facts.It was brought to my attention that this person that they brought back to work has a lot of time.They also took this all the way to Detroit.This person was off work a lot with a child that had a lot of medical problems with hips and had lots of surgerys on hips and feet., with one person to take care of the problems.Yes we have a lot of people laid off at this time,but there is not one of these people that would not have done the same thing.This person didn't make anyone hate the union,if you hate the union then you hated the union from way back,so don't blame it on someone else.SENORITY RULES it makes no difference the work record,Ford gave them another chance and so did UAW. Lets hope they would give you the same treatmentif needed.Now myob I have a handicapped child (In a wheelchair) now 18yrs old, more surgeries then I can count on two hands, weeks in the hospital innumerable hardships,costs out the a** that insurance doesn't cover. I've worked at Ford for 21 yrs, NEVER did I have to beg the Foreman for a day off or to cover an AWOL due to any of these problems. Why? Because I came to WORK everyday and did my job! If an emergency arose I called in and it was taken care of. NEVER went to labor, never needed to bother my committeeman. She played the system and got fired. I hope she learned her lesson, but knowing her type I bet she plays the system again as soon as the probation period is over! Mark your calenders!!Sick of the same old BS excuses. People don't want to work fire them and leave them out. I hope she takes full advantage of her good fortune the UAW sh*t on some good employees and ILO's to save her sorry a**! I know this sounds harsh, just sick of this crap. |
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Post by jokerrules on Apr 29, 2010 21:44:07 GMT -5
fat nat....this is your ole buddy red, just wanted too say hello....you must be talking about...DH haha
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Post by sweettnt on Apr 30, 2010 7:47:32 GMT -5
I agree with Scott,everyone has tempers,and Ford brings them out....
. "Don't judge other or you will be judged.You will be judged in the same way that
you judge others,and the amount you give to other will be given to you.
Matthew 7 : 1,2
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Post by axleman on Apr 30, 2010 15:48:16 GMT -5
I agree with Scott,everyone has tempers,and Ford brings them out.... . "Don't judge other or you will be judged.You will be judged in the same way that you judge others,and the amount you give to other will be given to you. Matthew 7 : 1,2 I love how people take the Bible out of context. You have to read the whole section on "judging others" Matthew 7 : 1-5! Read the whole truth before you take a verse out of the context it was intended. |
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Post by lap65 on Apr 30, 2010 15:54:04 GMT -5
Exactly, that passage does not say we can't judge, it simply is saying make sure you aren't doing the same thing or worse when you do. You can't see others faults in the right light when your own faults are clouding your vision.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2010 16:52:51 GMT -5
Lol! Work any where else and threaten another employee..... who the hell are you going to cry to to get your job back? I know of guys that got dishonorable discharge from the service for making threats to superior officers. Some people forget what life is like on the outside of Ford. Just keep thinking you can get away with anything. I promise, those days will be over soon...just wait and see.
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Post by reliefman on Apr 30, 2010 16:53:47 GMT -5
 Yes for goodness sakes... Don't take the passages out of context... of the versions of the bibles you're reading... of the 256 different ENGLISH translations that there are... Not going further down this road for fear of trolling violations...
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Post by donnybaker on Apr 30, 2010 23:14:01 GMT -5
Union dues are a ''Condition of Employment'' at the L.A.P . Seems showing up for work would be.
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Post by lappainter on May 9, 2010 9:51:10 GMT -5
Before I pass judgment on anyone, I tend to want to know the facts. If the individual or individuals brought back over someone on ILO who had an addiction and has gotten straighten out and is willing to give 100% everyday at work and show up to work. I'm in support for them. I 've seen what addiction can do to families. My brother ,my parents and I don't speak much since my brother has torn that trust apart between us when he got hooked on crack and my parents treat him like a baby. He is still a lazy piece of crap. If it is someone who just did not feel like coming in or like to play the medical game, then yes, I hate to see those kind back in here. That just brings moral down around them and the union reps., who have forgotten what it's like to work on line with someone like that, makes it harder to do. And we hate coming into work to be beside someone like that. There are alot of good people on ILO who would die to come back to work for their families, and I can't wait until they do. But if the union is bringing in ex-workers because of the buddy system , I hate that, if it treatment reasons that's cool. Best of luck to them and congrats on getting yourself over your addiction. BUT GET YOUR ASS TO WORK AND STOP BEING A JACK ASS. If I was on ILO, I would want some honest answers to what is going on.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2010 9:16:03 GMT -5
+1 Fatnat. ILO people had no choice in their fate. The addicts and AWOLer's dont care and risked their jobs. To say the addicts need another chance and let them come back... for what? Just to get fired again? Shit, I have heard of the three strike rule, but some of these POS have been through 12 games with a no hitter!
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Post by ScottR@KTP on May 10, 2010 15:11:58 GMT -5
I used to feel that way too anal...and no personal experience or experience around me changed my opinion...but having said that, I understand through education that addiction is indeed a disease. It could be inherited, learned, chosen, etc...but it is a disease. Talk to someone addicted to nicotine or the chemicals in cigarettes...it's a disease. I believe in 2nd chances...sometimes 3rd depending on the circumstances. If you bring guns or weapons to work, that should be viewed as the worst... they should be fired. But do they deserve a 2nd chance? I would be on the side to say no especially if they had weapons on them when they made a threat.
I am through rambling for now...LOL. I love a good debate!
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2010 15:56:12 GMT -5
But, Scott, I watch Intervention on A&E all the time! ;D
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Post by ktpschd on May 11, 2010 6:32:17 GMT -5
"Did these terminated people continue to pay union dues while they were no longer employed? If not how do they justify representation? How do they get priority over a working union dues paying person?"
Just trying to follow the logic here...
So if Ford fires you for ANY reason, you don't pay dues and therefore you are no longer a member of the UAW so they can't represent you since you are no longer a dues paying Union member. So if, upon termination you are no longer a UAW member and you get no union representation, ummm..what would stop Ford from firing everyone all at once and thus eliminate the union as a whole? Since, once you are fired, you are no longer a represented member of the UAW.
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I WANT ANSWERS AND YOU SHOULD TOO!!!!! Also I apologize for any typos you may find because my mind is running faster than I can type because I AM PISSED OFF . 
