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Post by cndebug on Jun 30, 2011 3:56:38 GMT -5
3 years ago I bidded on a weld inspector job and so did some of the committeepeople, I accepted and was placed and the committeepeople banked their job until they decide to resign which was a 3 years so they are now coming to collect on these jobs. There are no jobs available so the company is reducing 2 to make room for the ones that are coming and sending the reduced individuals to trim as line inspectors but only if they had the senority to reduce someone else if not than they go to available work in the plant. The international contract does not state that this can be done but the committeepeople are saying that it does but read it for yourself VOLUME 1 SECTION14 PAGE 45 PARA A&B in the international book. the reduce individuals have talked to everyone that would listen about this situation and still being ignored. The company policy for bid job state that once 3 days to accept and if not than that job is pass on to the next person in line that bidded on it. Do you feel that these individual should resign and take the bid or be allowed to bank it and wait until you are no longer a committeeperson?
I think she going to Final Area on 7/18/2011 , please have her check ??
_____________________________________________
Subject: RE: Rolls, and Reductions
When is he suppose to report to B-Shift? What about ??
_____________________________________________
Subject: RE: Rolls, and Reductions
?? will both be going to B crew , ?? will replace ?? as the extra weld inspector .and ?? is replacing ??
_____________________________________________ Subject: RE: Rolls, and Reductions
??
From what I was told by the Committeeman, ??, ?? are the two being reduced because of the two committeemen, ?? resigning. ?? will be going to available work, and ?? will bump one of the lowest line inspectors. ??will be coming to C-Shift after shutdown, which will bump ??to B-Shift and ?? to line inspection off of C-Shift WI. Additionally, I was told when ?? bumps the lowest from A-Shift,??, she will go to either B-Shift or C-Shift. Furthermore, I spoke with ?? and she told me that she has not decided what shift she wants to go when she gets bumped, which of course will only bump another person, depending on which shift she decides. But if she decides to come to C-Shift, it will bump ??to B-Shift.
Confusing? Yes, but this is accurate from what I have been told by the source themselves and the people in charge. Personally, I am happy with whomever I get and however it works out, just let me know. But, even with all the changes, I will still have one extra on my time sheet currently and after the fact. Plus, I have three back up WI's trained if I ever need them. I have more than enough coverage.
_____________________________________________
Subject: RE: Rolls, and Reductions
You will get two ??, one from B and one from C and ?? is rolling ?? off of weld days. Everything is as it should be, I only notified?? because he is the only on who is on my shift, ??is on ?? shift on C crew
_____________________________________________ Subject: RE: Rolls, and Reductions
Why is ??going to A crew , you have no openings on " A" crew for a additional weld inspector and Body owes me 2 inspectors due to getting ??. ?? give me a call on this ,I expect two inspectors to report to B Crew on Monday July 18th
_____________________________________________
Subject: Rolls, and Reductions
??was notified at 03:00 PM Monday the 27th to report to dayshift when we return from Shutdown and see ??.
Also on Monday the 27th at 03:15 PM ?? was notified to report to Final Area for new Inspection assignment, and to See either ??, or ?? as to where to go.
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Post by 30yearpace on Jun 30, 2011 6:59:43 GMT -5
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Post by dave7293 on Jun 30, 2011 7:09:26 GMT -5
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Post by nvsked1 on Jun 30, 2011 8:50:44 GMT -5
Its unfortunate, but this not an uncommon occurrence, committee people are allowed to bid on jobs they have the seniority to hold, and their pay while on committee is based on the classification they bid... Management will often bend over backwards to insure these individuals get their positions, its like they were serving two masters while on committee. Just make sure the individuals in question, they have the seniority to hold the classification.
The other side of the coin is the person(s) in question may of had 3 years in classification they otherwise couldn't hold if it had not been for committee assignments. Just make sure the people in question have the seniority to hold the position. There should be paper work from 3 years ago showing bid acceptance, just to keep everything on the up and up.
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Post by rky792 on Jun 30, 2011 14:48:34 GMT -5
I think if you get a union job, and lose or quit, you should return to the job you had. But you know what they say..............they can do that. And we get to pay union dues next week.
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Post by Calvin@KTP on Jun 30, 2011 14:51:19 GMT -5
nvsked1 is correct. Committeemen are allowed to bid on jobs. If they get it the next highest seniority bidder goes on the job until the committeman goes back to the line. It all goes by seniority.
There is nothing shadey about it. It has always been done like that.
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Post by whiner862 on Jun 30, 2011 16:54:42 GMT -5
For those of you who don't have a contract or are just to damn lazy to go get one and read it, I will write it here for you.
First lets address where you go when you are being reduced as a Weld Inspector. Page II KTP Local Contract it says, Reduction in force- Inspector classification........Page 8. Employees reduced from the Inspector Classification shall exercise their seniority in the following manner: Exercise their seniority within their natural work group ( which is Weld Inspectors). If unable to exercise their seniority within their natural work group then, exercise your seniority within the line Inspectors, if unable to hold seniority there then, Be placed on available work within the plant in VAT classification. there are jobs up for bid Inspection, the Company took 2 down because two were being reduced from Weld Inspection. CONTRACT! read it sometime!
The International Contract does not say this because it is in our Local Contract. Each plant varies on local contracts in different ways...
Now lets get to the meat of it. International Contract states on page 45 Article IV section 14 Paragraph A. A full time represenative shall continue to be paid at the rate of pay he or she was recieving at the time of assuming his/her duties except that his/her rate shall be adjusted in accordance with any adjustments made in the rate for the Classification he/she then held Paragraph B. Not withstanding the above, full time elected or appointed representatives shall be intitled to recieve consideration for Promotional or Nonpromotional opportunities under the provisions of Article IV Section 2 (a) or (b) of this agreement. And Section 2 (a) and (b) says that promotions are based on merit and ability. nothing new.
This language has always been in the contract and has never changed.
What pisses me off is when you people want seniority to work for you, you are all for it,. But when it does not, then you are the loudest, in the plant saying the union screwed you.
And further more there is no company policy stating anyone has 3 days to accept a job! ANYWHERE!........ once you get the BID it is yours.....
YOU PEOPLE NEED TO STOP MAKING UP YOUR OWN DAMN CONTRACTS AND READ THE ONES YOU GOT.
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Post by cndebug on Jun 30, 2011 20:13:08 GMT -5
Well Mr. Whiner862, Some of us do read the contract and comprehend what we read yes the local does state what you said and if they don"t have the senority to BUMP SOMEONE OFF line inspector job that they go to AVAILABLE WORK IN PLANT. Now on to the international NO WHERE within the writing does it say that ANYONE can BANK A BID JOB not even our great committeepeople. Yes they have a right to bid and except the bid, BUT THEY CAN ALSO RESIGN AND TAKE THE BIDDED JOB. They as well as you are pushing this past practice of 20 years on the membership which is wrong because the contract does not state that you can BANK A JOB (NOONE CAN) otherwise don"t you think everyone would. Someone did it 20 years ago and got away with it and they have been doing it to their advantage every since.
When have you last bidded,got to hold it and go to it when you got tired of your last?
WHAT IS THE COMPANY"S BID POLICY?
now your words:YOU PEOPLE NEED TO STOP MAKING UP YOUR OWN DAMN CONTRACTS AND READ THE ONES YOU GOT.
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Jun 30, 2011 20:59:56 GMT -5
Let me say what I have witnessed since arriving to KTP...I had Mr. Nick Reid when he resigned his position. He was holding a bid (lets say it was metal repair), but he went back to the line in body and is AWAITING an opening in the bid he's holding. I'm not sure if he has time to roll someone currently holding the position, but I do remember him telling me that he was AWAITING an opening...so sounded like the noble thing to do to me. Job well done Nick Reid! What is the norm?
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Post by mulewrong on Jun 30, 2011 21:30:55 GMT -5
I have seen.......
A plant manager say "he would never negotiate with the UAW if a certain individual was elected plant chairman" PRB CASE # 1510 or something I have seen bargaining reps being paid highest production classifications in the plant even though they didn't have the time to hold position I have seen production workers pulled off line to fill skilled trades jobs while skilled trades were on layoff I have seen union reps get their girl friends off the line for union business I've seen people with attendance issues and out vacation time, get union business days
I've seen so much stuff nothing surprises me...
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Post by marcus on Jun 30, 2011 22:49:46 GMT -5
WoW
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Post by bo862 on Jun 30, 2011 22:53:07 GMT -5
Nick Reids example would be a great contract modification. Requiring any union leaders that leave their job as a rep to take a position in a similar dept until a position becomes available in their bid classification.
I agree with scott. Nick has shown great character with that decision.
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Post by brundog2020 on Jun 30, 2011 23:42:17 GMT -5
LMAO,I'd like to know what opening Mr. Reid is waiting on???He was a metal finisher by classification while a union rep,guess what????He would have to go to B crew to hold it,i know for a fact that Mr. Reid has time on most of those people and according to all the fuss he should have went and rolled the youngest man!!But guess what?This union and Company went hand in hand and let him go to VAT so he wouldn't go to B crew!People wake up and start holding this union accountable for this BS!!!It was brought to the union's attention about this and typical answer was well that was in the past and we can't let people give up jobs to much churning!!!so another guy is getting rolled to B crew so that Mr. Reid can stay right where he is!!! I dare Kess or any of the rest to dispute these facts!!!The good old boy network is still alive!!
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Post by brundog2020 on Jun 30, 2011 23:48:51 GMT -5
Noble is not the right word i would use Mr. Reid...and for those that wonder how i know these facts!I'm a metal repairman on C crew
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Post by cndebug on Jul 1, 2011 1:40:47 GMT -5
Had a conversation with Mr. Brundog2020 and I quote " talked to Bill Johnston and was told that Nick Reid made a deal the Union and the Company that Nick did not have to take metal finisher job but could disqualify and stay in body. theses guys asked if they could be disqualified and place on the line in body and Royce Epperson told these guys that the union was going strictly by the contract and no deals would be made. THAT"s AN OXYMORON Deal for the rep but no deal for anyone else WOW. Does the (book) contract only apply to the people who touch the vehicle on the line.
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Post by thintwowin on Jul 1, 2011 2:15:03 GMT -5
I thought union people bid on jobs to increase the hourly rate of pay while in office.?
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Post by bo862 on Jul 1, 2011 6:48:55 GMT -5
If this is the case then I hope it is because of a hardship that he needed to be on a certain crew and not just cutting deals.
Regardless, this is a mess either way. We need language that better places former reps without appearing to show total disregard for members working the line. Treat them as if they have been reduced from the classification and give them the opportunity to take that job when a position becomes available. This does nothing to help those in the middle of this mess but we need to correct it so that it works better for everyone next time.
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Post by kentucky250s on Jul 1, 2011 10:30:20 GMT -5
I thought we no longer did the hardship ........
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Post by wplap on Jul 1, 2011 11:09:54 GMT -5
Nepotism: Come be clandestine with us! No, not you.
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Post by kuka on Jul 1, 2011 11:13:54 GMT -5
Just remember those famous words "they can do that". I'm sure somebody will put it in the contract somewhere.
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Post by beenaround on Jul 1, 2011 14:08:12 GMT -5
The phrase "They Can Do That" is hidden in the contract Between the gray area pages!
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Post by kessinger on Jul 2, 2011 0:50:32 GMT -5
Ok, Let's shed some light to this. I understand the folks getting bumped off weld inspection fighting so hard to stay in weld inspection. They are some of the best jobs in the plant, I would fight to.
As others have stated committepeople have the right to bid. The way it has always been done is that they retain recall rights while they are on committee, if they had or get accepted on a bid.
They ONLY reason the people getting bumped even got accepted to weld inspection is because of the way this issue works. If you think ANYONE would pass up retireing off weld inspection to stay a committeeperson you are smoking a bag of crack, or don't know what weld inspection is.
So IF we had said the committeepeople HAD to go to the jobs right then or give them up, THEY WOULD HAVE GOEN TO WELD INSPECTION and the two people now being reduced would not have gotten to do this great job for the last 3 years, nor would they have recall right to it.
I understand some of you hate union reps. But does it make sense that they can't use their seniority or that a person on a bid job can't be committeeperson?
Most of us, me included, DO NOT bid on jobs because my pay rate would go down. I am a relief person (was when I ran for office) I came into this job full ARPS, if I bid i lose my ARPS.
It is true that union reps used to bid and mysterisouly get the oiler classification and pay (it was like 4 dollars more) but we do not do that. But that is an absolutely true statement, regarding the past.
These two people are being reduced from weld inspect, to inspection per the contract, with recall rights to weld inspection. The poster states they are getting reduced to "trim", though technicly true, the inspection job will be in trim, it is not the line in trim as I think some were led to believe by the post.
Seniority has ruled here. No one has shown or can show these people were accepted under the table. DISPUTE THAT FACT.
As to Nick Reid, he NO LONGER has recall rights to metal finish, he would have had to exercised them then. The converstaion was that he wanted to goto metal finish but if it meant bumping someone out he did not want to exercise his recall rights. AS WITH ANYONE WITH RECALL RIGHTS you get asked if you want to go back or not, it is not forced.
So with him deciding he did not want to go we had to decided where to place him so we followed the language as if he was reduced from his classification of metal finish. The contract states for that job if you get reduced you stay in the department the job was in....body.
Unfortunatly Body has reduced since then but the two instances were a year apart, one didn't cause the other. There is at least one poster here that was reduced from body if anyone truely has a reason to be upset here it would be him, though they have reduced way more than the one person above him. But again, one did not cause the other, in a direct form anyway.
Have a good shutdown.
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Post by rclap on Jul 4, 2011 9:21:38 GMT -5
Ok, Let's shed some light to this. I understand the folks getting bumped off weld inspection fighting so hard to stay in weld inspection. They are some of the best jobs in the plant, I would fight to. As others have stated committepeople have the right to bid. The way it has always been done is that they retain recall rights while they are on committee, if they had or get accepted on a bid. They ONLY reason the people getting bumped even got accepted to weld inspection is because of the way this issue works. If you think ANYONE would pass up retireing off weld inspection to stay a committeeperson you are smoking a bag of crack, or don't know what weld inspection is. So IF we had said the committeepeople HAD to go to the jobs right then or give them up, THEY WOULD HAVE GOEN TO WELD INSPECTION and the two people now being reduced would not have gotten to do this great job for the last 3 years, nor would they have recall right to it. I understand some of you hate union reps. But does it make sense that they can't use their seniority or that a person on a bid job can't be committeeperson? Most of us, me included, DO NOT bid on jobs because my pay rate would go down. I am a relief person (was when I ran for office) I came into this job full ARPS, if I bid i lose my ARPS. It is true that union reps used to bid and mysterisouly get the oiler classification and pay (it was like 4 dollars more) but we do not do that. But that is an absolutely true statement, regarding the past. These two people are being reduced from weld inspect, to inspection per the contract, with recall rights to weld inspection. The poster states they are getting reduced to "trim", though technicly true, the inspection job will be in trim, it is not the line in trim as I think some were led to believe by the post. Seniority has ruled here. No one has shown or can show these people were accepted under the table. DISPUTE THAT FACT. As to Nick Reid, he NO LONGER has recall rights to metal finish, he would have had to exercised them then. The converstaion was that he wanted to goto metal finish but if it meant bumping someone out he did not want to exercise his recall rights. AS WITH ANYONE WITH RECALL RIGHTS you get asked if you want to go back or not, it is not forced. So with him deciding he did not want to go we had to decided where to place him so we followed the language as if he was reduced from his classification of metal finish. The contract states for that job if you get reduced you stay in the department the job was in....body. Unfortunatly Body has reduced since then but the two instances were a year apart, one didn't cause the other. There is at least one poster here that was reduced from body if anyone truely has a reason to be upset here it would be him, though they have reduced way more than the one person above him. But again, one did not cause the other, in a direct form anyway. Have a good shutdown. I think the issue is this practice itself. I agree, committemen should be able to bid, but if they turn down the bid, then it should go to the next highest seniority PERMANENTLY. If you want the bid, take the bid or lose it. The ability to hold/bank a classified job until a union rep. is voted out or declines to run for reelection is not right.
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Post by pmooret on Jul 4, 2011 10:08:10 GMT -5
How many times have you heard, "I go back to my old job when this is over, right"?
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Post by brundog2020 on Jul 16, 2011 16:46:36 GMT -5
Once again and this is only my opinion the Union is playing with words!!!Kess,Mr Reid did not have recall rights as you stated!He was a metal finisher just as Lunsford was a weld inspector!he should have bumped the low man from the classification and that man or woman then would have recall rights!!Recall rights are for the people that are being reduced,i myself am sick of wording being manipulated for the benefit of certain individuals.A person bids on a job it's theirs plain and simple Mr.Reid was a metal finisher and should have became one after he resigned from his union job, not exercise recall rights from a job that he never was reduced from!I stand by what the contract says and i have no problem with committee people bidding on jobs but they play by the same rules as everyone else.A person gets a job it's theirs.
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