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Post by scrappydo on Oct 4, 2011 23:45:49 GMT -5
Out of 100 people surveyed tonight 72 for 28 against I think most people think it not that bad of a deal
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Post by ihatemyjob on Oct 5, 2011 0:21:40 GMT -5
You must have polled 72 idiots.
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Post by moelap on Oct 5, 2011 1:30:03 GMT -5
You must have polled 72 idiots. I agree!!!!
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Post by beenaround on Oct 5, 2011 5:26:34 GMT -5
Out of 100 people surveyed tonight 72 for 28 against I think most people think it not that bad of a deal Looks like a management propaganda post.
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Post by Ex-metalman on Oct 5, 2011 6:56:18 GMT -5
Thats BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by trinitus on Oct 5, 2011 9:09:20 GMT -5
Musta polled all the one's on medical. Go to trim and do the damn poll.
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Post by TonyV on Oct 5, 2011 9:32:28 GMT -5
I've had about 250 texts, etc. from people wanting to carry torches with their picket signs. (LAP and KTP) I have not had but 4 tell me they would accept it. This is another concessionary contract brought down from the wonder boys King and Settles. We just pattern bargained with a bankrupt company GM and recieved their contract with a carrot on the front end.
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Oct 5, 2011 10:09:55 GMT -5
Why are we still pattern bargaining with two companies that filed bankruptcy? That's the part that is mind blowing. To hell with pattern bargaining...it is time to have entirely different contracts...or entirely different unions? It is nothing but increasing the number of union dues paying members. Let's worry about increasing new hires' wages and do absolutely nothing for the 41,000 senior employees. Look for them to attempt to bring the wages to the middle next contract once they reach their 20% 2nd tiers....about $23 to $24 for all...this is our future.
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Post by Ktp1989 on Oct 5, 2011 12:49:01 GMT -5
I talked to 100 people at the plant last night and did not find 1 single person who said they would vote for it...but you never know what happens when they pull the magic curtain
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Post by pmooret on Oct 5, 2011 21:25:04 GMT -5
Why are we still pattern bargaining with two companies that filed bankruptcy? That's the part that is mind blowing. To hell with pattern bargaining...it is time to have entirely different contracts...or entirely different unions? It is nothing but increasing the number of union dues paying members. Let's worry about increasing new hires' wages and do absolutely nothing for the 41,000 senior employees. Look for them to attempt to bring the wages to the middle next contract once they reach their 20% 2nd tiers....about $23 to $24 for all...this is our future. Scott, you didn't finish the story! Once the King gets our wages down to the same rate as workers at the non union plants that he wants to unionize he'll have a better chance of getting it through since the companies will not have to pay higher wages if the union comes in. Hell, they can even have the union to pay for their retirees health care. The King is hungry. Only this time it's not for a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, it's for POWER.
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Post by PUNISHER on Oct 5, 2011 21:29:07 GMT -5
yup....72 idiots
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Post by mulewrong on Oct 5, 2011 21:44:23 GMT -5
Gee....I'm about as radical a person as there is here at KTP and I'm voting for it! We are in the worst employment period since the great depression, even worst than the last big one 1980 (Those filthy Regan years...yuk) WE have good medical, (health, dental, optical) we make damn good money... Now granted we work in some harsh conditions but we are well compensated for those conditions. It's unfortunate, but it's business the rules of supply and demand..... The supply of jobs out there is nearly non-existent, and the jobs that are available are paying less because of all the available applicants....I went through this before 1979 I was making 9 bucks an hour two years later while in college I was lucky to be making 5 bucks, minimum wage was all that was available. Even as the economy started to pick up wages were still depressed... Ten years later I was back to what I was making in 79....but finally things started to pick up. IF YOU THINK WE ARE GOING TO GET BACK EVERYTHING WE LOST IN ONE OR TWO CONTRACTS, I'M SORRY TO SAY YOU ARE DREAMING.... So this is my 2 cents ... This is not a BS post... Would I've had liked to see a raise, yes, cost of livin...Hell yea....... But all in all, it's a good contract, when you factor in the current state of the economy....High unemployment = reduced rates for those with a job....Sorry just stating facts we are fortunate to have a vehicle in demand and decent union leadership here at KTP.... Scott, Rodney, Kess etc I maybe the only YES vote but I will vote yes
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Post by Ex-metalman on Oct 5, 2011 22:50:31 GMT -5
I respect your opinion but you must be brain washed!The concessions were temporary (suspended)til the co. got back to making money.I think we are there?Dont you?If they can spend BILLIONS of dollars to keep other plants open and retool this and retool that they can afford to give us a raise.Thats just my two cents and I will be VOTING NO.PS our insurance really isnt that great it may have been when I hired in in 1995 but theyve cut and clipped on it til its average at best.The wages are good but when everything in the world goes up in cost and your wages stay the same theres gonna be a problem>NO NO NO
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Post by ihatemyjob on Oct 6, 2011 0:04:31 GMT -5
Gee....I'm about as radical a person as there is here at KTP and I'm voting for it! We are in the worst employment period since the great depression, even worst than the last big one 1980 (Those filthy Regan years...yuk) WE have good medical, (health, dental, optical) we make damn good money... Now granted we work in some harsh conditions but we are well compensated for those conditions. It's unfortunate, but it's business the rules of supply and demand..... The supply of jobs out there is nearly non-existent, and the jobs that are available are paying less because of all the available applicants....I went through this before 1979 I was making 9 bucks an hour two years later while in college I was lucky to be making 5 bucks, minimum wage was all that was available. Even as the economy started to pick up wages were still depressed... Ten years later I was back to what I was making in 79....but finally things started to pick up. IF YOU THINK WE ARE GOING TO GET BACK EVERYTHING WE LOST IN ONE OR TWO CONTRACTS, I'M SORRY TO SAY YOU ARE DREAMING.... So this is my 2 cents ... This is not a BS post... Would I've had liked to see a raise, yes, cost of livin...Hell yea....... But all in all, it's a good contract, when you factor in the current state of the economy....High unemployment = reduced rates for those with a job....Sorry just stating facts we are fortunate to have a vehicle in demand and decent union leadership here at KTP.... Scott, Rodney, Kess etc I maybe the only YES vote but I will vote yes Well I guess we found one of those idiots. President of the company made $80+ million last year and people like this guy dont have the sense to see that and take a stand.
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Post by mulewrong on Oct 6, 2011 0:15:39 GMT -5
Well I guess we found one of those idiots. President of the company made $80+ million last year and people like this guy dont have the sense to see that and take a stand. I GOT YOUR IDIOT HANGING MFER!!! AGREE TO DISAGREE BUT YOU CAN KEEP YOUR NAME CALLIN .....
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Post by scrappydo on Oct 6, 2011 1:16:53 GMT -5
not an idiot a realist,the yes people will show up to vote
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Post by Ktp1989 on Oct 6, 2011 6:19:18 GMT -5
It's a easy no vote for me but atleast he voiced his opinion...most will join with the group and say vote no, but when they get behind the magic curtain somehow they vote yes....and find a way to pass it. Its laughable to me that anyone would vote for this...not on the basis of how the economy is, but the idea that we got back absolutely nothing that we gave up...period.
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Oct 6, 2011 7:23:33 GMT -5
We gain nothing...fuck even voting...let's just roll with the current contract.
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Oct 6, 2011 7:25:48 GMT -5
We don't allow name calling...please apologize to mulewrong...he can vote however he wants for whatever reason...this will not be shot down 100%. The majority/vocal are airing their disgust...the ones not speaking are in support.
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Post by mulewrong on Oct 6, 2011 8:49:03 GMT -5
We don't allow name calling...please apologize to mulewrong...he can vote however he wants for whatever reason...this will not be shot down 100%. The majority/vocal are airing their disgust...the ones not speaking are in support. No apologies necessary...I've been called worse by better people... It's amazing people can come on here and hide behind a screen name....Sticks and stones your names just show a lack of intelligent debate. The title of the topic should have been "for those who agree".... Anybody who wants to debate in public I always welcome the challenge...we can meet up for coffee. Have a good day brothers and sisters
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Post by pmooret on Oct 6, 2011 20:41:14 GMT -5
Here's my two cents. We are not voting on the state of the economy, we are voting on the state of Ford's finances and their finances have been plastered all over the paper for everyone to see and they're looking goooooood.
Here's my second penny. The last time the company opened up the contract and presented us with a concessionary agreement they tried to convince us that they were in dire straits and we needed to help out. Enough of us didn't believe them and it didn't pass. Then within less than two months, even though we didn't give up anything to free up any money, they helped themselves to raises, bonuses, etc.
Geez, in a matter of two months the company had a miraculous recovery, they went from dire straits to giving themselves raises. I watched several nights for a star to appear in the sky.
Just one of the examples of why I'm voting NO, I can't stand a liar.
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Post by raws2ktp on Oct 7, 2011 2:16:30 GMT -5
I know this is not going to be looked on favorably, but I must interject something into this discussion. I moved here from MI in 2009 and saw the devastating blow to the local economy first hand beginning about 2 years prior. One thing that I do not believe most of you realize is just how long it has been bad there. For those who cannot understand why someone would vote yes on this contract, let me set the scene.
You have been working for years without any reason to think the OT would dry up and then, just like that, you're on 40 hours. You go home one day to find out your spouse no longer has the job that was helping to pay for the increasing cost of food and clothes. Your next door neighbor just lost his house to foreclosure, making it the 5th out of 12 houses on the street to be foreclosed on. Most people you talk to are either losing their jobs or taking pay cuts at work in order for the companies to survive. The mood is always depressed no matter where you go and no end seems to be in sight for all the bills that are piling up which you cannot pay.
This contract offers, in essence, a way for those in this scenario to quickly have in hand approximately $5200 by the end of the year. I'm not sure if anyone at KTP, LAP, or KCAP understands what that would mean to them. Please, just consider this before you begin to name call and lose your mind on someone who decides they will vote yes on this contract.
Please excuse the length of this post....
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Post by Ktp1989 on Oct 7, 2011 6:49:07 GMT -5
I know this is not going to be looked on favorably, but I must interject something into this discussion. I moved here from MI in 2009 and saw the devastating blow to the local economy first hand beginning about 2 years prior. One thing that I do not believe most of you realize is just how long it has been bad there. For those who cannot understand why someone would vote yes on this contract, let me set the scene. You have been working for years without any reason to think the OT would dry up and then, just like that, you're on 40 hours. You go home one day to find out your spouse no longer has the job that was helping to pay for the increasing cost of food and clothes. Your next door neighbor just lost his house to foreclosure, making it the 5th out of 12 houses on the street to be foreclosed on. Most people you talk to are either losing their jobs or taking pay cuts at work in order for the companies to survive. The mood is always depressed no matter where you go and no end seems to be in sight for all the bills that are piling up which you cannot pay. This contract offers, in essence, a way for those in this scenario to quickly have in hand approximately $5200 by the end of the year. I'm not sure if anyone at KTP, LAP, or KCAP understands what that would mean to them. Please, just consider this before you begin to name call and lose your mind on someone who decides they will vote yes on this contract. Please excuse the length of this post.... Valid points, but those plants only make up some of the voting numbers so the membership will decided if they want to accept this offer...I still think that between the unsettling of the grievance, the terrible offer, the Ceo's high pay and the returning of benefits to salary that the membership across the board is fed up and will reject the contract. We shall see.
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Post by marcus on Oct 7, 2011 7:12:36 GMT -5
I have to say the country started to turn around in the eairly 80s not go to crap.The late 70s was the bad time.
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Oct 7, 2011 7:43:08 GMT -5
I know this is not going to be looked on favorably, but I must interject something into this discussion. I moved here from MI in 2009 and saw the devastating blow to the local economy first hand beginning about 2 years prior. One thing that I do not believe most of you realize is just how long it has been bad there. For those who cannot understand why someone would vote yes on this contract, let me set the scene. You have been working for years without any reason to think the OT would dry up and then, just like that, you're on 40 hours. You go home one day to find out your spouse no longer has the job that was helping to pay for the increasing cost of food and clothes. Your next door neighbor just lost his house to foreclosure, making it the 5th out of 12 houses on the street to be foreclosed on. Most people you talk to are either losing their jobs or taking pay cuts at work in order for the companies to survive. The mood is always depressed no matter where you go and no end seems to be in sight for all the bills that are piling up which you cannot pay. This contract offers, in essence, a way for those in this scenario to quickly have in hand approximately $5200 by the end of the year. I'm not sure if anyone at KTP, LAP, or KCAP understands what that would mean to them. Please, just consider this before you begin to name call and lose your mind on someone who decides they will vote yes on this contract. Please excuse the length of this post.... I greatly appreciate your post/opinion. Everyone has to vote for their family...no one else. But to say $5200 is gonna save anyone is ridiculous...$5200 may be a band-aid for a gun shot wound. If you are hurting now, you are gonna be hurting even more in 4 years when you are making the same dollar. People need to quit making their house payments now if you're struggling...stash the cash...so when they take your house after 12-18 months, you will have plenty of money to start anew with a more comfy living style.
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Post by fordworker95 on Oct 7, 2011 13:19:00 GMT -5
I understand kings "vision" about keeping fixed cost down-ala-no cola,no raise on base pay.However the lump sums they are offering of $1500 are too low.Thats roughly a week and a half's pay each year to offset cola.in 2007 we had about 120,000 employees,now we have 41,000.I think ford can do better than $1500 a year for us since our work force is 1/3 the size that it was in 2007.If ford had not given so much money to BILL and ALAN,then I might have considered a yes on this agreement.But as it is I can't vote for it.
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Post by atltolap on Oct 7, 2011 14:28:01 GMT -5
Just take the golden egg and don't kill the goose
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jkiel
Amateur
"Live better. Work union."
Posts: 69
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Post by jkiel on Oct 8, 2011 6:32:27 GMT -5
Its good to see some thoughtful, respectful differences of opinions here.
Mule, you make some valid points, and I understand we prolly can't get back all the concessions in one contract.
But it looks like we didn't get anything back. I get it that a raise and cola increases our so-called fixed cost. But, hell, couldn't we get back the Monday after Easter? How much would that cost? And why a cap on hours eligible for profit sharing? Does mulally have a cap on what he makes?
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Post by marcus on Oct 8, 2011 7:38:26 GMT -5
It's amazing people can come on here and hide behind a screen name....
Yep thats why I post my name so everyone knows who I am for better or worse hehe.
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Post by Mark Thomas on Oct 8, 2011 8:31:11 GMT -5
don`t even come close to curbing the price gas alone has gone up sinse our last raise !!
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