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Post by ktpfromlap on Oct 5, 2011 18:46:34 GMT -5
Okay, so our government bailed out Chrysler and GM and expects to be paid back. So, when we here at Ford made concessions essentially bailing Ford out then why aren't we afforded the same treatment in the form of repayment i.e. get our C.O.L.A. back, receive our pay raises, etc., etc., etc. ?? It seems to me that I was temporarily helping them. At least, that is the impression they gave me when it was agreed upon. Actually, though, I have to admit that "I" never actually agreed to it at all. I always voted no and will continue to do so until they decide to treat me like a human being and not some scrap of theirs to be used and then discarded...
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Oct 6, 2011 7:06:58 GMT -5
As I stated before, Ford should have went the federal bailout route as well. GM's deal was as good as ours if not better. They are debt free while Ford is still billions in debt.
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Post by itsallgreektome on Oct 6, 2011 11:34:05 GMT -5
Why are we not happy with what we have? That's the question? The community feels we at Ford Motor Co are all over paid. Look around you. There are people around who would give anything to have your job. The economy is in bad shape and we are bitching about a little cola? What is wrong with everybody. We gave all that up. We gave all that up!! Ford did not make us do that. You can't expect to get it all back. As Scott said Ford is still in debt and we are lucky to be working. We too are greedy. I am happy with just keeping my current wage and maybe not have an increase in my health care. I think people just needs to think about what would happen in Ford was not taking care of them. McDonalds might have a better retirement plan if Ford is not working out.
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Post by jefflebowski on Oct 6, 2011 12:50:44 GMT -5
We should all be racing to the bottom? Sorry, I don't subscribe to your point of view. Ford made 11 billion dollars on very low volume sales (11.5 million units industry wide). They are about to return to DOUBLE their record profits when volume sales pickup to 14 million units industry wide in the US....a number all automotive CEO's and analyst stated would destroy the industry. As for GM and debt, they will owe their pension plan 30-35 billion dollars by year end. That will be more than the market capitalization of GM. Don't even compare Ford to GM.
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Post by ktpsparky on Oct 6, 2011 13:21:40 GMT -5
We should all be racing to the bottom? Sorry, I don't subscribe to your point of view. Ford made 11 billion dollars on very low volume sales (11.5 million units industry wide). They are about to return to DOUBLE their record profits when volume sales pickup to 14 million units industry wide in the US....a number all automotive CEO's and analyst stated would destroy the industry. As for GM and debt, they will owe their pension plan 30-35 billion dollars by year end. That will be more than the market capitalization of GM. Don't even compare Ford to GM. THIS IS WHY A $12B CAP ON PROFIT SHARING IS A VERY BAD IDEA!!!!!!!!!!! WE WILL ALL BE KICKING OURSELVES FOR LETTING THEM OFF THAT EASY.
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Post by ktpfromlap on Oct 7, 2011 3:06:17 GMT -5
Why are we not happy with what we have? That's the question? The community feels we at Ford Motor Co are all over paid. Look around you. There are people around who would give anything to have your job. The economy is in bad shape and we are bitching about a little cola? What is wrong with everybody. We gave all that up. We gave all that up!! Ford did not make us do that. You can't expect to get it all back. As Scott said Ford is still in debt and we are lucky to be working. We too are greedy. I am happy with just keeping my current wage and maybe not have an increase in my health care. I think people just needs to think about what would happen in Ford was not taking care of them. McDonalds might have a better retirement plan if Ford is not working out. Well, Management doesn't seem to think like you. Do you forget that they are sharing in this wealth why we are expected to be "content" with what we have now after all those concessions? Why would you be okay with that? To be okay with that is to tell Management that we truly are what they think us to be which is nothing but a bunch of trained monkeys. Shoot, I think even a trained monkey could recognize that the big bananas have a disproportionate amount of bananas in comparison to themselves.
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Post by ktploner on Oct 7, 2011 5:28:54 GMT -5
I was talking with someone last night who was openly backing the contract proposal. I told him that I just couldn't support it and he asked me an interesting question..."What do you expect a NO vote will accomplish and what will it take for you to vote yes?" I started to say that I wanted back everything we gave up, but we all know that is not going to happen. I really didn't know and told him I would get back with him. I saw him again tonight, and I told him that my "NO" vote, if anything else, may possibly help to extend our current contract long enough to have the grievance resolved. At least that way we have a chance! It seems that the IUAW still has no idea what the rank and file want, but a godd, strong "NO VOTE" may give them a little insight!
That doesn't even take into consideration all of the other little items that are crap! First and foremost, win or lose, I want the grievance settled! A "YES VOTE" tells the arbitrator that we are ok with giving these items up permanently, which is not ok with me!
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Post by ktploner on Oct 7, 2011 5:41:06 GMT -5
By the way, the guy I was talking about this with is now "VOTING NO!" Not because I told him we needed to vote it down or anything, but I have showed him some things in the language, he has spoken with others, and the letter from Gary Walkowitz of Local 600 (Michigan) changed his mind! If you haven't received or found a copy of this letter, you should try and track one down. It is a real eye opener and kind of scary really! There is a lot to consider...just take the time to consider it!
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Oct 7, 2011 6:06:00 GMT -5
I wish everyone would/could read it. The unsettled grievance is enough all by itself to vote no.
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Post by Ktp1989 on Oct 7, 2011 6:42:19 GMT -5
I was talking with someone last night who was openly backing the contract proposal. I told him that I just couldn't support it and he asked me an interesting question..."What do you expect a NO vote will accomplish and what will it take for you to vote yes?" I started to say that I wanted back everything we gave up, but we all know that is not going to happen. I really didn't know and told him I would get back with him. I saw him again tonight, and I told him that my "NO" vote, if anything else, may possibly help to extend our current contract long enough to have the grievance resolved. At least that way we have a chance! It seems that the IUAW still has no idea what the rank and file want, but a godd, strong "NO VOTE" may give them a little insight! That doesn't even take into consideration all of the other little items that are crap! First and foremost, win or lose, I want the grievance settled! A "YES VOTE" tells the arbitrator that we are ok with giving these items up permanently, which is not ok with me! If we ship the contract back up north the grievance hearing will be delayed once again because they don't want you to know the final decision till after the contract is finalized....because we aren't going to get anything. If there was anything to get from the grievance they would have stuck it with this shitty contract to pass it thru.....period.
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Post by ktpsparky on Oct 7, 2011 7:18:15 GMT -5
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Post by rocketman on Oct 7, 2011 12:38:08 GMT -5
I agree with Scott on FORD getting a government bail-out. I think the reason from what I understand watching business reports over time that one of reasons FORD didn't do it was because the Ford family still has controlling interest in the company and they would have had reliquish most of their ownership including personal assets such as the Detroit Lions, etc. I wonder, though, that since GM declared bankruptcy did all investors in GM stock did it become worthless?? If so, I'm glad FORD didn't declare bankruptcy. Yes, my TESPHE is made up of mostly FORD stock and I'm glad I didn't get rid of it. It's been on a roller coaster ride, but I see it in the future of the company growing. My TESPHE is considered to be a risky part of my portfolio. My wife and I have been able to save money for retirement in other investments separate from FORD. We live on the notion that social security won't be there for use in 25 years. Does anybody know for sure that the old GM stock is worthless?? I think GM, though, paid back it loan to the government or at least more than 90 percent of it. However, Chrysler Group LLC. probably won't be able to do it, just like several banks, etc.
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Post by thintwowin on Oct 7, 2011 14:35:42 GMT -5
I think they gave old gm stock holders 1 share of new for every 100 of old as a settlement. Pretty much worthless thou
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Post by thintwowin on Oct 7, 2011 14:41:22 GMT -5
The workers are now, finally, significant owners of the means of production. The United Auto Workers control about 65 percent of Chrysler and 17.5 percent of General Motors. Which some of this stock is in veba losing money, gm has went from $34? To $22? So the veba can't sell it. Can't buy retirery health care with losing stock, takes cash. Ford will not be put at a disadvantage says king. This is why we are getting screwed period. The IUAW are on both sides if the fence now. www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2009/06/which_side_are_you_on.html
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