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Post by ktploner on Oct 5, 2011 20:05:18 GMT -5
Reading through the entire contract, I noticed this little addition that I am sure they thought was buried deep enough where it would not be seen and wasn't mentioned in the highlights for some reason...
The contract clearly states on page 57 that...
"All plants will adopt the work group/team standard as expeditiously as possible. Plants receiving new investment will have a natural opportunity to lead the way. A common team leader classification and wage rate will be made available once the roles and responsibilities have been implemented.
The local parties may need to adjust local agreements in support of work groups/team..." Blah Blah Blah
Anyone from LAP working temporarily at KTP will tell you the work group/team concept sucks! We LAPers fought hard to keep this concept out of our plant over the last several contracts and we don't need it implemented now with the rest of this nonsense!
I'm not trying to tell anyone how to vote, but VOTE NO! You can polish a turd all you want but it is still a turd and still stinks!
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Post by fuckugettelfinger on Oct 5, 2011 20:08:37 GMT -5
I saw that also. So basicly they are forcing everyone to go "team concept".
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Post by PUNISHER on Oct 5, 2011 21:30:50 GMT -5
fuck that!!!!
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Post by Ktp1989 on Oct 6, 2011 6:23:18 GMT -5
I saw that also. So basicly they are forcing everyone to go "team concept". Say goodbye to the upgrader jobs...team leaders are coming...who can suck the most gets these...seniority is meaningless.
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Post by ktpgal89 on Oct 6, 2011 6:42:24 GMT -5
I saw that also. So basicly they are forcing everyone to go "team concept". Say goodbye to the upgrader jobs...team leaders are coming...who can suck the most gets these...seniority is meaningless. People saw in the highlights where the team leader will make $1.50 more an hour than the VAT's...haven't had time to lok it up yet.
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Post by bo862 on Oct 6, 2011 6:54:35 GMT -5
I have not gone through the whole contract yet, but I was told the details about the responsibilities will not come out till after we ratify it. The 1.50 raise is in the highlights.
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Oct 6, 2011 7:17:51 GMT -5
TLs at KTP make about $1.50 over entry level VAT...but u can get a $.74 raise as a VAT by learning more jobs. So, it's right to assume TLs make another $.76.
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Post by kessinger on Oct 6, 2011 8:53:40 GMT -5
I know you guys think LAP is not team concept because they call em quality leaders. But, they are. That is why it was negoatiated nationaly because all plants were already team concept.
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Post by TonyV on Oct 6, 2011 8:58:37 GMT -5
They were Traditional/COA. They were not team concept sir.
...if everyone was already team concept - why would it be needed to contractually force all plants to adopt it in this contract?!??
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Oct 6, 2011 9:38:24 GMT -5
If I am correct didn't LAP just bid by seniority group leader jobs? That is far different than what goes on at KTP.
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Post by Ktp1989 on Oct 6, 2011 13:27:39 GMT -5
after this contract is passed LAP will be MOA and those bid jobs will dissappear....seniority won't mean a thing and the biggest suckass will take over the revised "upgrade" position...now called team leader.
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Post by tryingtomakeit on Oct 6, 2011 14:51:22 GMT -5
Ahhhh yes, the MOA being forced upon LAP. Hate to say it, but I saw that one coming a mile away. So good times LAP. Now you get to see suck assery taken to a new level. Be sure and check your DROTs every day to see if your suck ass TL is getting a little extra here and there. Watch with your own eyes, men and women you worked with for years proceed to shove your brothers and sisters out in front of the bus. And sure, you will say, thats not going to happen at LAP. And at first, it wont. But as time goes on the TL's will become more and more drunk with their perceived bit of power and wont waste a second to snuggle up to the supe's ball sack and leave you twisting in the wind. Then comes the worst part, you wont be able to get rid of them. Enjoy!
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Oct 6, 2011 15:53:10 GMT -5
Happy Land no more...I will be the first to say it...team concept will ruin LAP.
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Post by ktploner on Oct 7, 2011 5:01:52 GMT -5
I was also afraid of this! What a waste of time bidding the upgrade/quality leader jobs. After the initial freeze (6 months I think), the teams will vote in a new team and the upgrade will become a regular operator. The jobs/duties of the new team leaders will not be available until after the fact, and they will have to sign a form and agree to new responsibilities. No telling what they may be, but I bet the bottom of the boss's computer cabinets will be completely dust free!
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Post by marcus on Oct 7, 2011 6:44:32 GMT -5
Yea the team stuff really really sucks.We are getting a very bad deal.
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Post by Shrek on Oct 7, 2011 22:20:52 GMT -5
Kessinger is right!! But it also says in the contract that each plant will have the ability to form their teams in the way there see fit. Steve Stone has already said that If this contract is passed then he will keep team Leaders as Quality Leaders and they will stay Bid Jobs!!
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Post by Ktp1989 on Oct 8, 2011 12:47:48 GMT -5
then how about our leadership at KTP get rid of the team concept and the team leaders and made them bid jobs as per LAP.....so maybe, just maybe seniorty could mean something which if a contract like this is passed is about all the UAW member has in here.
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Post by ktpgal89 on Oct 8, 2011 14:13:42 GMT -5
then how about our leadership at KTP get rid of the team concept and the team leaders and made them bid jobs as per LAP.....so maybe, just maybe seniorty could mean something which if a contract like this is passed is about all the UAW member has in here. Wasn't that suppose to happen last contract at KTP and union struck it down?
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Post by justmefornow on Oct 9, 2011 11:00:55 GMT -5
It's a no win situation.....If they go by seniorty then the older guys or gals can get the job but with that being said they will use that to their advantage...slacking on the job and so forth. Same can be said for the younger seniorty. Bottom line the suckasses get the good jobs and everybody else has to run their ass off!!! The more jobs you learn the more they use you to their advantage...I can see why people only want to learn a couple jobs, it makes going to work a little more easier knowing that because you don't know the shitty job then you won't be bothered all the time. Not a team player you say...well after years of taking it you just get tired of all the BS. You just want to go to work, do your job and go home. They say that they won't be giving bathroom breaks, med breaks...so what does that mean in english??? Follow the boss around like a lil puppy dog or just go get lost for most of their shift??? The team leaders will be nothing short of our future bosses which means they will pit us against each other. They will be protected by the union...unlike our foreman now and because of their seniorty we will be stuck with them. Some team leaders are great...don't get me wrong but they are VERY few and far between.
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Post by kessinger on Oct 11, 2011 9:52:30 GMT -5
Ok, correct me if I am wrong, but doesnt LAP have a quality leader that has, ogh say around 14 people working around them/under them and gives things such as bathroom breaks? How is this not team concept? I understand you guys say it is not, I am fine with that, just wondering how its not?
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Post by badcat555 on Oct 11, 2011 10:09:57 GMT -5
No its not team concept at LAP Kess..No one on the line or the upgrader make decisions as to who does what.. Its not a popularity contest to be in the click. You are not pressured into learning a lot of jobs or rotating jobs. If you are interested in a job that is coming open you speak to the forman and he usally gives it to the senior employee when it comes available. Senority comes into play a lot more at Lap. An Upgrader job is bid and higher senority hold those positions. I have worked in both and I like LAP's way a lot better. I think the Team concept pits the employees against each other more. At Lap you fight with the company more and the Union is more helpful because they are fighting with the company and not getting in the middle of the employees fights. Hope for LAP sake they stay the traditional way!
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Post by lap65 on Oct 11, 2011 10:34:10 GMT -5
Because they don't have the authority to give days off or pay people or write them up etc. And it is a bid job. And the line workers do not learn each others job & rotate etc. And you are wrong about it being negotiated nationally because all plants were already team concept. LAP is not & according to Stone will not be, and the following quote is from blue oval from the vice president of Dearborn stamping.
" The “Team Leader” topic in the tentative contract is not a forced issue. Each building committee will have the chance to review it, and then chose to accept it or not. It also doesn’t guarantee that the current team leaders will be the ones that get the positions.
At Dearborn Stamping & DTP Body Shop, we will look at the language and see if it fits our membership needs. If it does, we will go for it. If not, then we won’t accept it. So please don’t let this sway your decision when casting your vote for the contract. Your Bargaining team will make sure it’s the right thing for the membership, per your submitted local contract resolutions.
Jeff Hodges Local 600 Dearborn Stamping & DTP Body Shop Vice President & Bargaining Representative "
LAP is basically upgraders with some extra paperwork. They only started calling them quality leaders when they started the weekly quality meetings etc. That program didn't last long but the title quality leader stuck.
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Oct 11, 2011 10:41:41 GMT -5
Well, there's two replies Kess...LMAO.
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Post by lap65 on Oct 12, 2011 9:10:38 GMT -5
Just wondering if we answered your questions sufficiently Kess?
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Post by Jr on Oct 12, 2011 9:48:22 GMT -5
Oh wait one More!!!!!
Lap follows a procedure through out the plant.
KTP lets each team make up their own rules!!! I Know I was there and have alot of friends there
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Post by reedycreekbuc on Oct 12, 2011 9:57:36 GMT -5
You can't have a union and the team concept. It has never worked at KTP, and it won't work anywhere else. We don't even have team meetings anymore, and I don't know half of the people on my team.
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