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Post by simonsays on Oct 13, 2011 12:40:58 GMT -5
If we strike and then they bring in scabs the union will loose Ford. There is no way the UAW will loose 41,000 employees. They will scare you to death to vote for this I am hearing guys close to retiring are already changing there vote out of fear. Hold the line this was written to scare you. still voting no.
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Oct 13, 2011 12:52:57 GMT -5
Ditto
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Post by ktpelec on Oct 13, 2011 12:58:11 GMT -5
It's actually a reality, a no-win situation for both parties, but still a reality.
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Post by elmer on Oct 13, 2011 14:17:50 GMT -5
If people vote Yes for this because the union is scaring them; then we've lost allot more then just a cola.
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Post by grimbold on Oct 13, 2011 14:36:00 GMT -5
I'm not voting "yes" because of what the the union says, I'm voting "yes" because I'm living a good life even with the past concessions and I'll still be living a good life under the new contract.
Somehow I've managed not to become quite so horribly aggrieved as a lot of you are (probably because I really don't give a rat's ass about much) so I can wait until the economy is in better shape before asking for anything back.
But hey, if the majority says no, then I'm still right there with ya fellas. I'd rather not spend all my savings just cause you're all pissed off but whatever.
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Post by reedycreekbuc on Oct 13, 2011 15:01:35 GMT -5
At first I was voting no, but after weighing everything, I am with grimbold. We have a good life. We make more than most of the people we know probably. They are not going to give us those things back. We gave them up. The UAW and Ford are in business to do one thing, which is to make money. They don't care how they get it, but they will get it.
If we want more money, how about getting President Obama and elected officials to push for a tax cut. That would be more money in our pocket.
I will vote yes, but if the majority says no, I will be out there supporting the cause.
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86gn
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Post by 86gn on Oct 13, 2011 15:13:21 GMT -5
I'm not voting "yes" because of what the the union says, I'm voting "yes" because I'm living a good life even with the past concessions and I'll still be living a good life under the new contract. Somehow I've managed not to become quite so horribly aggrieved as a lot of you are (probably because I really don't give a rat's ass about much) so I can wait until the economy is in better shape before asking for anything back. But hey, if the majority says no, then I'm still right there with ya fellas. I'd rather not spend all my savings just cause you're all pissed off but whatever. Agreed
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Post by mazroth on Oct 13, 2011 15:28:20 GMT -5
At first I was voting no, but after weighing everything, I am with grimbold. We have a good life. We make more than most of the people we know probably. They are not going to give us those things back. We gave them up. The UAW and Ford are in business to do one thing, which is to make money. They don't care how they get it, but they will get it. If we want more money, how about getting President Obama and elected officials to push for a tax cut. That would be more money in our pocket. I will vote yes, but if the majority says no, I will be out there supporting the cause. They are making money, they dont want to give it back to us, so they can make more and we can take less. People fought hard for what we have, died, and suffered. We gave it back temporarily, now, its time for giveback, and they want to keep all the extra they are making off of us to fill up their pockets more. NO. What is it they are wanting us to say now.?.? One Ford. Well, lets see it. If not, we will all have to suffer...But, would they rather give us some too, or loose that fat purse we have all been working hard on filling. Dont think any scabs are gonna put out the numbers and quality we have been. If they put scabs in there to work, I wouldnt buy a Ford vehicle built by a scab.
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Post by informer on Oct 13, 2011 15:32:26 GMT -5
Why let the Union lose because there are a few "turn coats"? I say vote Yes, then start working on getting rid of the traitors. Take this as an opportunity to build your solidarity and learn from your past mistakes. I remember when I hired in, one of the "old timers" that trained me told me "Never give anything up, you will never win it back!"...look to the retirees and learn from them!
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jagr2
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Post by jagr2 on Oct 13, 2011 15:34:46 GMT -5
At Eastern Airlines, we voted down 3 contracts. In each one I never saw much of a change between the 1 we voted down and the new one that was passed.
Our Union and its members got a reputation for being militant. It came down to a showdown. The economy was as bad as it is now, with the wealthy flaunting themselves and all.
It was finally a contract that proposed 50% wage cuts. Thats what we finally struck for (or was led to). When you strike you may never know what comes next. In Eastern case it was a 2 year strike.
It wasn't a good environment then as now. As a result there were thousands of people devastated. Many never recoverred. There were many suicides.
Its possible to find something better. It will take some skill and as much luck to start over again. Start over with vacations, seniority, job classification, etc.. and just an overall pain of being in the bottom again. But it is possible to get something else. You won't really recover.
I've been there and just thought it my duty to make this knowledge available to you. I know how most of you must feel, especially the young ones, (I was young at Eastern) and know the militant mentality. Just wanted you to know how real this can get. I've learned when the union and company are happy, its about as good as its gonna get. Thats how you feel when you begin to get older. The fight in you tempers down, I guess.
Not here to tell anyone what to do or how to feel. Just wanted you to here of 1 fight and how it ended.
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Post by ktpelec on Oct 13, 2011 16:00:51 GMT -5
Toyota is #1 in the world without a union workforce, you can bet that Ford will do what it can to gain that advantage also. Just sayin...
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Post by Jr on Oct 13, 2011 16:08:38 GMT -5
At Eastern Airlines, we voted down 3 contracts. In each one I never saw much of a change between the 1 we voted down and the new one that was passed. Our Union and its members got a reputation for being militant. It came down to a showdown. The economy was as bad as it is now, with the wealthy flaunting themselves and all. It was finally a contract that proposed 50% wage cuts. Thats what we finally struck for (or was led to). When you strike you may never know what comes next. In Eastern case it was a 2 year strike. It wasn't a good environment then as now. As a result there were thousands of people devastated. Many never recoverred. There were many suicides. Its possible to find something better. It will take some skill and as much luck to start over again. Start over with vacations, seniority, job classification, etc.. and just an overall pain of being in the bottom again. But it is possible to get something else. You won't really recover. I've been there and just thought it my duty to make this knowledge available to you. I know how most of you must feel, especially the young ones, (I was young at Eastern) and know the militant mentality. Just wanted you to know how real this can get. I've learned when the union and company are happy, its about as good as its gonna get. Thats how you feel when you begin to get older. The fight in you tempers down, I guess. Not here to tell anyone what to do or how to feel. Just wanted you to here of 1 fight and how it ended. And you Work where Now? Thought this was suppose to be a board for FORD employees?
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Post by mazroth on Oct 13, 2011 16:10:34 GMT -5
So I guess the old saying goes?
"the rich get richer, and the poorer get poorer."
Why do we settle on people with money telling us they are better than we are, and they get to have more, and tell us what to do?
I believe in Jesus, and God, my fate is in his hands. Those who step on others will get whats coming to them, but that does not mean we go on getting stepped on and don't try and stand up for ourselves.
I voted Yes awhile back, temporary givebacks, my mistake, wont happen again. Then I voted yes again, you wont get laid off, well guess what....I think I learned then, then they came and asked us to give up more, they couldn't be competitive if we didn't, well, we didn't, and look who is being very competitive. If we had given up more then, they would have just put more in their pockets.
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Post by lap65 on Oct 13, 2011 16:15:05 GMT -5
Um...when did they get back to #1 & even if they are...my brother works there, the pay is almost the same as ours, within pennies, he gets personal time, vacation time, holidays, huge bonuses, very comparable health care etc. And all because they want to keep the union out. The biggest difference between us & them is the CEO compensation & union dues which doesn't seem to paying off for us right now
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Post by informer on Oct 13, 2011 16:18:48 GMT -5
Mazroth..you are right. We don't have to settle, we just have to realize that we are the one making them the money! Our blood and sweat is what really fuels the fires! When you purchase their goods, you are putting money in their pockets..don't purchase their goods. Don't work on your own time...don't do them any favors...don't let them get away with working you without a required piece of equipment, don't let them make you run and hurt yourself on the job.make them add people to the line, if you think about it there are many ways to cut into their income! And, stay and fight, vote out the traitors...
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jagr2
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Post by jagr2 on Oct 13, 2011 16:22:42 GMT -5
And you Work where Now? Thought this was suppose to be a board for FORD employees? It is and I do work here at Ford Motor Company, body shop UAW.
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Post by informer on Oct 13, 2011 16:25:53 GMT -5
jagr2, I am a UAW member.....and a spouse of a UAW member! If more people who work at Ford believed in what the UAW stands for this strike issue would never have been an issue...If more people who work at Ford were really UAW members! Are you?
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Oct 13, 2011 16:32:51 GMT -5
So am I right to assume that only the true union members voted to give up their right to strike since they have the utmost faith in their leaders and are willing to accept any contract presented to them?
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Post by informer on Oct 13, 2011 16:38:56 GMT -5
No, Scott you are not right to assume that ....A true union member does not have to give up their right to strike, they don't have to have the utmost faith in their leaders, and they don't have to accept any contract presented to them..but they should have the intelligence and strength to out smart the company and any traitors who are working with the company to disassemble the UAW. Striking is not the answer! Now is the time to stop the "in-fighting" among members and organize...can't do that if you are not there!
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Post by grimbold on Oct 13, 2011 16:46:59 GMT -5
jagr2, I am a UAW member.....and a spouse of a UAW member! If more people who work at Ford believed in what the UAW stands for this strike issue would never have been an issue...If more people who work at Ford were really UAW members! Are you? His comment wasn't aimed at you, informer. He was answering an earlier query regarding his own status but appears to have broken the quote box around "And you Work where Now? Thought this was suppose to be a board for FORD employees?"
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jagr2
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Post by jagr2 on Oct 13, 2011 16:47:09 GMT -5
Scott@KTP
How many strikes have you been on?
I was on a 2 year strike. I am speaking from experience, are you? Have you paid your dues? No, I'm not a kiss ass. Is that what you are asking?
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Post by Ex-metalman on Oct 13, 2011 16:48:16 GMT -5
You say now is not the time to fight????When would be in your mind???When they cut our pay?I say we fight tooth and nail,our concessions were suspended not forfieted!!!They fuckin owe us.Yea we make good money but thats not the point we sacrificed for the good of the co. and now that we are makin money again(like we ever stopped)we should be awarded1Just saw some guy named Ken Malone on the news saying that we are lucky to have these jobs?I agree but cut here cut there and next thing you know 2015,we will be lookin at a pay CUT!!!!All the men and women who fought before us to get what the hell we are giving back!!!!Easily I might add!!!
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Post by grimbold on Oct 13, 2011 16:54:16 GMT -5
The question is not so much when to fight but where. From the inside or the outside?
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Post by mazroth on Oct 13, 2011 17:55:38 GMT -5
Well, If to many people are Scared to vote NO, and we end up getring nothing back but promises for work/jobs that were already in store, if somethimg bad happens again with the economy, those Scared that always vote yes and are happy to just be working Im sure will vote to cut our pay.
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Post by grimbold on Oct 13, 2011 17:59:04 GMT -5
Like that last round of concessions?
Oh, wait...
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Post by reedycreekbuc on Oct 13, 2011 17:59:19 GMT -5
I am voting yes, but I would never vote for a pay cut. I wouldn't work there for less than the amount I make now.
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Oct 13, 2011 17:59:39 GMT -5
Scott@KTP How many strikes have you been on? I was on a 2 year strike. I am speaking from experience, are you? Have you paid your dues? No, I'm not a kiss ass. Is that what you are asking? Zero...but no one wants a strike...nor do we want our leaders telling the world that we don't want COLA or raises...or have our leader tell us "we won't go back to the table and ask Ford for more...we will make you go out on strike and allow Ford to replace all of you indefinitely.". Is this the union you love so dearly? It's not the union I've been paying dues to for nearly 19 yrs. Walter Reuther prolly rolled over in his grave when Settles made that threat on Facebook...and now he wants to tell the world, "I didn't post that". King and Settles are not exactly on our side...anyone with one brain cell left can see that. And now we have Scott E sending out emails comparing our deal to GM's and Chrysler's...why are we comparing them to bankrupt companies? Why do we put the promise of jobs and investments in our contract? Why must we pay for new/added jobs? Were they not adding these jobs anyway? Don't sales and projected sales determine if Ford can hire people? We already screwed the future new hires? Why are many so gung ho on helping to eliminate the middle class? It's our chance to make a difference for the next generations and represent those that fought before us. To hell with ever laying down and allowing them to run over me year after year.
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Post by rky792 on Oct 13, 2011 18:11:47 GMT -5
Ya know, the bottom line is I don't like this contract either, but what can we gain by going back to the table? Ford never in my 19 years has gone back on a decision they have made, even if they were dead wrong. King and Settles suck,,,no doubt about it, but we loose here not them, the last 10 years have been tough and we have all decreased in income and savings. I hate that we have no choice but we don't, we cannot gain a thing with the leadership we have now. What needs to change right away is we need more say in who is at the top.
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jagr2
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Post by jagr2 on Oct 13, 2011 18:36:07 GMT -5
Scott@KTP
I agree with everything you are saying. I helped fight Eastern Airlines and the upper class for the same reasons 25 years ago. 25 years later I'm still fighting the same issues. In as many years we will still be fighting these issues. Its an age old fight.
I remember during our Eastern strike, the UAW and other Unions didn't want to participate. The Eastern Union made it perfectly clear they would not break any laws for us strikers. None. Everything went to court and before Congress and we lost everything. The laws are in there pocket. So is the media. Already the media is lying about why we want to strike. The lies are only going to get worse. The way they twist things around is disgusting. They are lying through there teeth about the wall street thing. Thats why I say we have to choose our battles wisely.
Some say they're mad because the union is still getting raises. And your going to trust yourself battling the company with these same people your upset with?
I don't have the answers. Not going to tell anyone what to do. I'm on the same side. We lost alot of power with Ronald Reagan, and until we get that back, we don't have the political or judicial power they had with Walter Ruther. They were'nt fighting a stacked deck. Reagan stacked the supreme court for years to come.
The Republicans fight tooth and nail for the upper class and they're taxes. When was the last time you saw the Democrats fight for us? When they do it's peanuts and lame. Reagan turned a 90% tax for the wealthy to 17%. 100K cap for executives to what it is today. The Democrats are profiting too much from these policies to even think of us anymore.
I'm sick of it. I just don't see us gaining anything worthwhile through this. The wall street movement will hopefully turn the tide or greedy way these upper class people think or get away with. But I see us going against a stacked deck. I just want everyone to weigh out the consequences for what we will actually gain.
Forgive my lengthy response. I'm with us what ever shall be.
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Post by Ktp1989 on Oct 13, 2011 18:46:31 GMT -5
[/quote] Zero...but no one wants a strike...nor do we want our leaders telling the world that we don't want COLA or raises...or have our leader tell us "we won't go back to the table and ask Ford for more...we will make you go out on strike and allow Ford to replace all of you indefinitely.". Is this the union you love so dearly? It's not the union I've been paying dues to for nearly 19 yrs. Walter Reuther prolly rolled over in his grave when Settles made that threat on Facebook...and now he wants to tell the world, "I didn't post that". King and Settles are not exactly on our side...anyone with one brain cell left can see that. And now we have Scott E sending out emails comparing our deal to GM's and Chrysler's...why are we comparing them to bankrupt companies? Why do we put the promise of jobs and investments in our contract? Why must we pay for new/added jobs? Were they not adding these jobs anyway? Don't sales and projected sales determine if Ford can hire people? We already screwed the future new hires? Why are many so gung ho on helping to eliminate the middle class? It's our chance to make a difference for the next generations and represent those that fought before us. To hell with ever laying down and allowing them to run over me year after year. [/quote]
My thoughts exactly!
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