jagr2
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Posts: 48
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Post by jagr2 on Oct 13, 2011 19:00:29 GMT -5
I wasn't trying to get political. I just see the company going to Congress and the courts to help them and or replace us. Thats what they did in the 80's and I don't see anything changing that today. We have no friends in those places.
Maybe I'm just shell shocked but this is how these things played out in the 80's.
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Oct 13, 2011 19:19:47 GMT -5
Scott@KTP I agree with everything you are saying. I helped fight Eastern Airlines and the upper class for the same reasons 25 years ago. 25 years later I'm still fighting the same issues. In as many years we will still be fighting these issues. Its an age old fight. I remember during our Eastern strike, the UAW and other Unions didn't want to participate. The Eastern Union made it perfectly clear they would not break any laws for us strikers. None. Everything went to court and before Congress and we lost everything. The laws are in there pocket. So is the media. Already the media is lying about why we want to strike. The lies are only going to get worse. The way they twist things around is disgusting. They are lying through there teeth about the wall street thing. Thats why I say we have to choose our battles wisely. Some say they're mad because the union is still getting raises. And your going to trust yourself battling the company with these same people your upset with? I don't have the answers. Not going to tell anyone what to do. I'm on the same side. We lost alot of power with Ronald Reagan, and until we get that back, we don't have the political or judicial power they had with Walter Ruther. They were'nt fighting a stacked deck. Reagan stacked the supreme court for years to come. The Republicans fight tooth and nail for the upper class and they're taxes. When was the last time you saw the Democrats fight for us? When they do it's peanuts and lame. Reagan turned a 90% tax for the wealthy to 17%. 100K cap for executives to what it is today. The Democrats are profiting too much from these policies to even think of us anymore. I'm sick of it. I just don't see us gaining anything worthwhile through this. The wall street movement will hopefully turn the tide or greedy way these upper class people think or get away with. But I see us going against a stacked deck. I just want everyone to weigh out the consequences for what we will actually gain. Forgive my lengthy response. I'm with us what ever shall be. Not disrespecting you, but holler at me when Ford goes out of business like Eastern. It may be time for The Real Fords to stand up and tell Settles and King they will give us a bone since our leaders won't ask for it.
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jagr2
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Posts: 48
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Post by jagr2 on Oct 13, 2011 19:47:25 GMT -5
Although Eastern technically went out of business, they were offended by the militancy of the union and eventually brought in Texas Air and transferred all assets to Continental Air thanks to a friendly congress and court system who walked them thru it over the 2 year strike. Continental now takes 16 years to top out at 18 dollars an hour. Thats where the Eastern jobs ended up. Eastern was on a pay scale equal to Ford at the time prior to the strike. That strike was a no brainer.
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Post by lapquality on Oct 13, 2011 20:38:07 GMT -5
let me tell you what will come on the next contract........ "NO MORE PENSIONS FOR RETIREES, WE ARE NOW CONVERTING YOUR PENSION TO A COMPARABLE 401k"..... watch and see what next...... this is entirely scare tactics........ no way they hire scabs to replace Union members.... no way they lock out Union members.....entirely too much of a Public Relations mess.....who will buy a Ford knowing that all the employees are new scabs straight off the street?.....it won't happen.......DO NOT LET THE INTERNATIONAL SCARE YOU......its only to get their YES vote and add 2nd tier workers to THEIR UNION DUES PAYROLL.....
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Post by unchained on Oct 13, 2011 21:00:21 GMT -5
Who will by a Ford knowing that they were made by scabs? Are you serious, the public already thinks were over paid, the same people that buy all the crap from China, they don't care. Scare tactics? Were they scare tactics at Boeing and Caterpillar? After 17 months on strike at Caterpillar the union just gave up and said they would accept the same contract they striked over. All the while they continued to run with replacement workers. Some of original workers were never allowed to come back. the-spark.net/csart115.html
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Post by ktpregular on Oct 14, 2011 1:02:54 GMT -5
WOW! Thanks to the media and (Settles) you people are now reconsidering your no votes. Grow some fucking nuts and hold your ground. I once didn't work at Ford, and I can again not work at Ford. Have some principle and use your brain! What would it take to bring in SCABS and for the area supervisors to teach each and every person a job times xxxx (correctly). Also the hiring process to do so. Then the security passes and such, quality is realing going out the door. The big picture tells me that Ford will be wanting to go back to the table. They are just low balling us because they think they can.
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Post by unchained on Oct 14, 2011 4:07:00 GMT -5
ktpregular, all of us once didn't work at Ford but were all not willing to not work at Ford as you are. I dont know your situation but those of us who didn't get hired right out of high school know what the job market was like then. Today it is 100 times worse. So if you have another job option, good for you. The rest of us aren't willing to give up our years of service and pay, all for cola (which would probably be zero anyway) and pay raises. $28 an hour and not paying for health insurance is still very good. You and your family might think its worth risking it all with Ford since you have another option but think of the other union members who do not. I may be wrong but I have a feeling that a lot of No sentiment is coming from young people who didn't work for very long in the job market outside of Ford or older employees who got hired right out of high school. I myself worked 7 years before Ford and I do not want to go back to that. Especially since they are not asking us to accept less than $28 an hour. They can replace us, and will probably be glad to finally have a reason do so. Look at what happened at Boeing and Caterpillar, I bet they were thinking it was just scare tactics and they couldn't be replaced either, but they were. AT Caterpillar they were on strike for 18 months and were replaced and the company didn't miss a beat. The UAW finally just gave up and accepted a worse contract than what they initially went on strike over. And this was in 1995 when the economy was booming. Look it up.
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Post by lapquality on Oct 14, 2011 4:51:43 GMT -5
mark my word.......once there are enough 2nd tier workers in place.....contracts will come down to 2nd tier workers voting for more pay increases for them while voting out your pension you THINK you will have at the end of your 30 years......you will be thrown into a 401K retirement just as the 2nd tier workers are.........I understand how some of you scared of what will happen if you vote NO on this contract, but you better think really hard about what a YES
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Post by lapquality on Oct 14, 2011 4:53:17 GMT -5
vote will do to you in the long run......I hope they don't end the 30 year and out pensions...but then again I never thought they'd have 2nd tier workers hired in that will vote against the older workers.........THINK BEFORE YOU VOTE.........
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Post by elmer on Oct 14, 2011 4:55:00 GMT -5
vote will do to you in the long run......I hope they don't end the 30 year and out pensions...but then again I never thought they'd have 2nd tier workers hired in that will vote against the older workers.........THINK BEFORE YOU VOTE......... we've already lost the 30 and out pension
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jagr2
New Member
Posts: 48
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Post by jagr2 on Oct 14, 2011 8:21:34 GMT -5
Anyone who thinks the public will back us has never been on or remembers a true strike. You will see a media blitz that favors the company like you've never seen before.
All wars are won and lost before they begin. Sun-tsu the Art Of War
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jagr2
New Member
Posts: 48
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Post by jagr2 on Oct 14, 2011 8:28:14 GMT -5
If you think a lock out will not replace your job, you've never seen a true strike. The company will use Congress and the courts to there will and the Congress and the courts will represent the company all the way.
If they try to change the contract down the road, then strike, because you will have nothing to lose. Maybe public opinion will change then.
The Eastern strike was about 50% pay cuts and the company was able to make sure public opinion was on there side. The media will turn on you.
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Post by Dr. Death on Oct 14, 2011 8:35:48 GMT -5
Scott the reason Scott E. and the rest our awesome union reps are putting that out there is because they were promised an International position if they get the yes vote. Just like some of our past union reps. (e.g. Mike Abell & Bob Breedlove).
If anybody thinks this is the first time you have been sold out, I'm glad your battery backup is working in your reality alarm clock. We have in the past and we will in the future.
Not saying I going for the yes vote, but Jagr2 has some good points also. A lot of you are thinking the Ford family will not just set around and let this happen. Time to check that battery. Bill Ford knew exactly what he was getting when he bribed Mually to here. Oh, I meant hired him. Do a search on Boeing and see what he did there. He was brought here to turn this company around at any cost. And if that means Scabs he would do it. The only thing is I don't think they see that he is all about Ego, Power, and Money. He would jump ship to Toyota in a heartbeat if he thought he could boost his ego even more bringing them back from their fall.
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jagr2
New Member
Posts: 48
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Post by jagr2 on Oct 14, 2011 8:45:34 GMT -5
Mullally was around in the 80's era with Boeing. He has experience and knows what he is doing.
Know your enemy, he will come after you with everything he has. Sun-Tsu the Art Of War
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Post by nvsked1 on Oct 14, 2011 8:56:47 GMT -5
Scott the reason Scott E. and the rest our awesome union reps are putting that out there is because they were promised an International position if they get the yes vote. Just like some of our past union reps. (e.g. Mike Abell & Bob Breedlove). If anybody thinks this is the first time you have been sold out, I'm glad your battery backup is working in your reality alarm clock. We have in the past and we will in the future. Not saying I going for the yes vote, but Jagr2 has some good points also. A lot of you are thinking the Ford family will not just set around and let this happen. Time to check that battery. Bill Ford knew exactly what he was getting when he bribed Mually to here. Oh, I meant hired him. Do a search on Boeing and see what he did there. He was brought here to turn this company around at any cost. And if that means Scabs he would do it. The only thing is I don't think they see that he is all about Ego, Power, and Money. He would jump ship to Toyota in a heartbeat if he thought he could boost his ego even more bringing them back from their fall. Don't disagree with your post, but the phrase Scott promised job... The UAW International is stocked with former chairman, to be considered for the IUAW you have to be a former chairman, or relative of a former chairman....Pick a name at I level, you will see they were a chairman somewhere.....
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