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Post by driveshaftgrunt on Oct 18, 2011 20:14:08 GMT -5
Is the Bargaining Com. selecting bid jobs for people who bid on multiple openings? Are they not taking people's seniority and preferences into account? Got two guys within 20 ft of me that are PISSED that they haven't been placed on the bid jobs they won/and preferred, yet someone with less seniority DID get placed there.........
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Post by driveshaftgrunt on Nov 3, 2011 16:24:34 GMT -5
Since this got lost in the contract posts, I'll try again. So if you bid on 2 or 3 jobs, you DO NOT get the one you prefer, even if it goes to someone with lower seniority, if the BC decides that another job is "better" for you? There is now some mysterious 'ranking' for the bid jobs? I ask this because someone on my team DID NOT get the bid job he wanted, and it went to a person with LOWER seniority and he was told it was the union's call? Seniority HAS to trump the union's "opinion" on this one, or we're all screwed. I won't even get into the potential for favoritism...... Again, if I bid on multiple jobs, and have a preference the union can still place a LOWER seniority person on the bid I want "just because"......... Set me straight on this.
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Post by Ktp1989 on Nov 3, 2011 17:23:22 GMT -5
In the past if you bid on more then one job then you were at risk to be accepted to any of them depending on which job bid is pulled first. In 1992 when there were hundreds of jobs posted for the F series coming to the plant I bid on a torque inspector and a forklift job...I believed I had enough time for both and obvioulsy I would have prefered the Torque inspector more...but the Forklift job was pulled 1st and I had to go to that. Bottom line is if you bid on more then 1 job you are saying I want all these jobs and any would be fine for me...but if you only want 1 job then bid on only one because you guarentee yourself that job...if you have the seniority. The risk obviously is that you may not have the time then miss out on the other job...but when you bid on any job you are saying I want this job...regardless if you want it more then another.
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Post by lap65 on Nov 3, 2011 17:35:58 GMT -5
I can somewhat understand that in 92, but in the age of computers there should be no problem sorting a situation like that out, you should get the one you prefer if you have the time.
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Post by jeter3000 on Nov 3, 2011 18:32:08 GMT -5
I'm sure it will take some time to sort out shift preference, job placements, even department changing as appx. 2000 people arrive at LAP. As the people come in according to zone hierarchy, alot of senior people will be placed on some less desirable jobs while the low senior people appear to have grabbed all the "GOOD JOBS". Don't fret as "Seniority" will prevail and the senior people will eventually hold the positions and shifts they desire. For now, stay grateful for what we have and give our leadership support for this upcoming task of representing each and everyone of us. Good luck to all and work safe.
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Post by kbrundag on Nov 3, 2011 20:11:51 GMT -5
It's like this... The "union" wants everyone who who wants a bid to get one... So say someone bids on 2, 3 or maybe 4 jobs, but maybe someone else just bids on the one. Instead of giving your dumb ass your first or even second bid, you get the third, while this other guy who bid gets your first choice with less seniority. The "union" could care less because you both got a bid... Your first choice means nothing, you bid on 4 jobs and you got one, but so did your "brother." I hope this make you feel all warm and fuzzy...
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Post by Ktp1989 on Nov 3, 2011 20:22:02 GMT -5
The union and company doesn't have time to ask everyone on 5 bids if they want this job or that job...they pull the job and if you are at the top and your record is good...you are official. I want this job more then that one...I only bid on the one I really want. By bidding on more than 1 job I'm saying I will take any of them...regardless of which comes up first....just my take.
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Post by lapbrian on Nov 3, 2011 21:58:23 GMT -5
The union and company doesn't have time to ask everyone on 5 bids if they want this job or that job...they pull the job and if you are at the top and your record is good...you are official. I want this job more then that one...I only bid on the one I really want. By bidding on more than 1 job I'm saying I will take any of them...regardless of which comes up first....just my take. Really? It's all done by computer so how hard can it be. That's why you rank them. You bid on 4 jobs, you rank them 1-4 if you are top seniority on 2 of the 4 the one you had ranked the highest you get, not what the union and company picks for you. Let's not make it easier for a buddy or family member to get a bid job.
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Post by lap65 on Nov 3, 2011 23:22:44 GMT -5
The union and company doesn't have time to ask everyone on 5 bids if they want this job or that job...they pull the job and if you are at the top and your record is good...you are official. I want this job more then that one...I only bid on the one I really want. By bidding on more than 1 job I'm saying I will take any of them...regardless of which comes up first....just my take. Really? It's all done by computer so how hard can it be. That's why you rank them. You bid on 4 jobs, you rank them 1-4 if you our top seniority on 2 of the 4 the one you had ranked the highest you get, not what the union and company picks for you. Let's not make it easier for a buddy or family member to get a bid job. Exactly.
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Post by kbrundag on Nov 4, 2011 0:39:09 GMT -5
It is not computerized. It's done the old fashioned way, pencil and paper...
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Post by lap65 on Nov 4, 2011 0:49:31 GMT -5
Wow so they dont use computer for bids at KTP? You guys need to move into the 21st century:)
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Post by almost30 on Nov 4, 2011 6:33:24 GMT -5
Five years ago I bid on two different jobs...one in paint, the other in material handling...I was #1 on both bids and I was asked," Which one do you prefer?" Wonder what has changed since then. I was told since I had highest seniority on both bids, I could choose my preference and the next person down the bid list would get the one I turned down. I agree, we need clarification from the union on this before "bid jobs" become "buddy placement jobs". As a matter of fact, the job I did take was turned down by a more senior employee who also had multiple bids accepted, moving me up to the #1 seniority. So he also had a choice. Saying, "The union and company doesn't have time to ask everyone on 5 bids if they want this job or that job..." shouldn't be true. It's their JOB! All a part of the bid process. if it's too much trouble to serve the membership, maybe the union rep should seek opportunities elsewhere.
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Post by driveshaftgrunt on Nov 4, 2011 8:13:55 GMT -5
I'll phrase it this way again:
Is it possible for someone with LOWER seniority to be placed on a bid job YOU WANTED AND GOT instead of you just because a union officer says so......?
I'm not talking about getting a bid job in March, and then not being place on your preferred bid job when it comes open in April.
I'm talking about STILL working the line, when a LOWER seniority person is placed on a bid job you bid on, and won.........
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Post by ktpdriveoff on Nov 4, 2011 8:47:34 GMT -5
I don't see any mention of a person's record as a factor. (attendence, R&W's and such)
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Post by trinitus on Nov 4, 2011 9:54:24 GMT -5
The difference between the two plants (when it comes to bid jobs) is this. At KTP you get DQ'ed IF you have one R&W with time off or two R&W's with no time off. You can still be accepted with one R&W if there is no time off penalty.
At LAP, you have to have at least three R&W's to get penalized on a job bid regardless if you have time off or not. There might be something that one I forgot but I am pretty sure I am close to it though. Any one from LAP who would like to help clear this up a little.
With that said, due to myself having a R&W or two in the past I have been passed over on several bids and it was given to lower Seniority people based on that alone. I am sure attendance had something to do with my R&W's in the past.
I understand the penalty phase, in order to reward the good worker's but I have also seen how some higher seniority person has done a 180 when given a bid job. I think by ignoring the senior people because of a penalty or two only makes them that more disgruntled. Give them the chance to to the job and if they continue to screw up then DQ them. That way they understand why they are no longer on the bid job instead of complaining as to why they never got it to begin with. Just my opinion.
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Post by lap65 on Nov 4, 2011 10:19:36 GMT -5
That would make sense.
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Post by ktpgal89 on Nov 4, 2011 10:37:21 GMT -5
Is the Bargaining Com. selecting bid jobs for people who bid on multiple openings? Are they not taking people's seniority and preferences into account? Got two guys within 20 ft of me that are PISSED that they haven't been placed on the bid jobs they won/and preferred, yet someone with less seniority DID get placed there......... I've been here almost 8 yrs now, but in Indy before I left jpb acceptence went by the posting number. If you bid on 3 jobs and you had enough time for all-you were held to the lowest posting number..say #102, #103 , #104...you had to take #102..that would be nice to impliment here and all the confusion would be gone as to preferencial treatment.
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Post by driveshaftgrunt on Nov 4, 2011 11:05:40 GMT -5
Look, as far as I know any DQ's don't come into play here.
All I'm asking is: Does the BC get to pick who gets which bid job, regardless of seniority.........? Because we're under the impression that that is what happened.
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Post by watchmen on Nov 4, 2011 11:49:18 GMT -5
Here is a novel idea. Instead of asking that question on the rumor mill site and getting different answers that u don't believe just call the BC and ask. I'm just saying.
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Post by trinitus on Nov 4, 2011 11:52:10 GMT -5
Have you talked to the BC? If not may I suggest you do so. Otherwise go to Labor Relations and ask why you were not placed on a bid job and why a lower Seniority person was, my thoughts are that a DQ will come into play.
If a DQ is not involved, then like someone else said if you bid on more than one posting then you get the one they go to first. So if the bid you wanted was inspector and you also placed a bid on MH as well as tag relief then if they went to tag relief first and you qualified for it then you got that one. If you didn't want tag relief you should not have placed a bid on it.
In the end go talk to the BC and ask them why. My guess is that they will tell you the same thing I just did. You know the old saying in here, Be careful what you ask for because you just might get it.
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Post by driveshaftgrunt on Nov 4, 2011 15:57:25 GMT -5
A couple of things:
--Its not me.
--If it were me I'd be in the union office everyday until I got an answer.
And finally,
-- -Nevermind.
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Post by dragnasty on Nov 8, 2011 19:19:51 GMT -5
Thank You so much Driveshaftgrunt for bringing this issue to attention. Yes its true, our BC can and will pick your bid job for you if you bid on more than one job. I know this to be true as I am going through it right now. There Office? Yes, Ive been to the union offices more than once and there is nothing we can do about this so be careful what you bid on. An employee with 8 months less seniority was placed on the job that I signed up for as my first choice, and I was given my third choice. And not only did I not get that bid , I really got none of them. I signed for inspection and there isnt an inspection job even open so they made me awol coverage for inspection!!!!!. Sorry everyone, SENIORITY means absolutely Nothing at KTP. Its all about who you know unfortunately.
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Post by Ktp1989 on Nov 9, 2011 7:29:10 GMT -5
Thank You so much Driveshaftgrunt for bringing this issue to attention. Yes its true, our BC can and will pick your bid job for you if you bid on more than one job. I know this to be true as I am going through it right now. There Office? Yes, Ive been to the union offices more than once and there is nothing we can do about this so be careful what you bid on. An employee with 8 months less seniority was placed on the job that I signed up for as my first choice, and I was given my third choice. And not only did I not get that bid , I really got none of them. I signed for inspection and there isnt an inspection job even open so they made me awol coverage for inspection!!!!!. Sorry everyone, SENIORITY means absolutely Nothing at KTP. Its all about who you know unfortunately. I agree..and knowing this only bid on the job thats your first choice...then they can't play games...and you go on that job if your seniority allows.
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Post by driveshaftgrunt on Nov 16, 2011 19:36:13 GMT -5
It just got even better. Evidently, ANOTHER lower seniority employee was placed on one of the openings. So my buddy bid for this job around 4-5 months ago, can't get to it, and TWO lower seniority people have been placed on the job ahead of him. I told him he'll NEVER get anywhere unless he's willing to act like he's ready to start setting things on fire............
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Post by driveshaftgrunt on Nov 16, 2011 19:37:49 GMT -5
It just got even better. Evidently, ANOTHER lower seniority employee was placed on one of the openings. So my buddy bid for this job around 4-5 months ago, can't get to it, and TWO lower seniority people have been placed on the job ahead of him. I told him he'll NEVER get anywhere unless he's willing to act like he's ready to start setting things on fire............ And this isnt' the guy above who bid on multiple jobs only to be told he couldn't get his choice, even though he has the seniority to get it...............this is the OTHER guy...........
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Post by driveshaftgrunt on Nov 18, 2011 20:15:35 GMT -5
I'll try one final time, then my mission is accomplished, I've brought this out in the open.
The second guy in question was THE NUMBER ONE BIDDER on the list. He did not get any other bid. He's been number one since he bid in June/July...........yet they've moved TWO people with LESS seniority onto the job.
That is all.........
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