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Post by TonyV on Feb 21, 2012 0:08:30 GMT -5
611 against 393 for
production 350 for and 489 against
Skilled trades 43 for 122 against
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86gn
New Member
Posts: 43
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Post by 86gn on Feb 21, 2012 0:18:37 GMT -5
Bid for teamleader jobs and no grandfathering in, get a clue BC this is a union shop and seniorty matters!!!
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Post by trinitus on Feb 21, 2012 0:24:20 GMT -5
All we heard from our leader's was, that the membership didn't want the team leader's to be bid out. Truth is, we didn't want the team leader's to be grandfathered in.
I voted no not just because of the team leader thing (although that was one of the reason's I voted no), I voted no because of the contract in general. They spent month's and all that they brought us was a bunch of nothing. RTBU is in the national contract, so why would you go to another plant and retain those right's? Why would our BC even put this is the contract?
Go back to the table and bring us a contract we would feel comfortable with. One that would make each of our BC look good. Time will tell though, I just wonder if they are listening this time.
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Feb 21, 2012 0:32:33 GMT -5
HA HA HA HA...gives me hope that we still have fighters on the floor. Believe in what's right and continue to fight my union brothers/sisters.
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Post by brenteskridge on Feb 21, 2012 1:29:41 GMT -5
Trinitus: I just want to answer one part of your comment. The RTBU rights is a national issue and it is also a national issue on how people are brought into the plants. Vol 1 pages 210-223. You stated "RTBU is in the national contract, so why would you go to another plant and retain those right's?" For who ever decided to sign up and go to LAP from KTP would not have any RTBU rights back to KTP. Same for any LAP employee that comes over here. They are giving that right up because if we went by the national, then there wouldn't even be this chance for anybody in this local to make that transfer. We (local 862) would fall under the PLACEMENT HIERARCHY starting on page 219.
I hope this helps and answers your question.
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Feb 21, 2012 1:59:48 GMT -5
All we heard from our leader's was, that the membership didn't want the team leader's to be bid out. Truth is, we didn't want the team leader's to be grandfathered in. I voted no not just because of the team leader thing (although that was one of the reason's I voted no), I voted no because of the contract in general. They spent month's and all that they brought us was a bunch of nothing. RTBU is in the national contract, so why would you go to another plant and retain those right's? Why would our BC even put this is the contract? Go back to the table and bring us a contract we would feel comfortable with. One that would make each of our BC look good. Time will tell though, I just wonder if they are listening this time. We did get a band saw!
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Post by brizzel on Feb 21, 2012 3:00:48 GMT -5
But yet those from LAP still retain the rtbu to go back. We want that same option. They have been at our plant for years and have had several chances to go back. They have not lost that right, so why should we if we go. We are one local?
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Post by brenteskridge on Feb 21, 2012 3:47:53 GMT -5
In order for that to happen, the IUAW would have to agree to that and I would say they will not because Scott fought this very tough fight to get people the chance to go over to LAP and again by the national contract we don't have the right to go over there.
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Post by marcus on Feb 21, 2012 4:36:58 GMT -5
I hear alot of people wanting team leaders bid and 100made more jobs.10 to 1buy mix would help quality to
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Post by ktpnightshift4life on Feb 21, 2012 5:44:29 GMT -5
Teamleader needs to remain an elected position but should go to the 10x1 configuration.
My biggest issue was the agreement that a job could not be rebalenced again for 6 months after its last rebalence UNLESS the company notified the UAW first. This is a total crock of shit and just as bad as the current agreement which allows a job to be rebalanced anytime there is a new launch. This is why there is a 2012.25, 2012.50, 2012.75, ect models. The supposed new proposal still allows the company to rebalance a job any damn time that want. How about our guys fight for an agreement that does not allow a job to be rebalanced for atleast 6 months after its most recent rebalance. No loopholes for the company, once a job is rebalanced they should not be able to do it again for 6 months.
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Post by remember1976 on Feb 21, 2012 5:52:06 GMT -5
Since the BC never set a strike deadline I'd say Scot didn't fight too damn hard.
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Post by beenaround on Feb 21, 2012 7:17:31 GMT -5
Wow what a turnout of voters. NOT!!!!!! Sure hope there is a better showing next time around.
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Post by kbrundag on Feb 21, 2012 7:29:21 GMT -5
I would almost expect International Union Leadership to be out of touch with the membership. But to have a Local Contract voted down? Fucking amazing... A Building Chairman and a BC with their heads in the sand. Why do we expect so much from International? They have been ignoring the membership since the local level too I'm sure.
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Post by uawhater71 on Feb 21, 2012 9:04:46 GMT -5
Maybe now people will take a real hard look at our leadership here at ktp and understand that we have to get rid of this good ole boy shit a vote in new blood next time. How could it really be any worse than what we are dealing with at the current time. Hopefully the voting down of this contract will be the start of something good,,,I mean the only one that it looks like on here defending Scott is his baby brother. But on a good note all the Scott supporters out there you dont have to worry about him I'm sure his job up north is still secured.
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Post by remember1976 on Feb 21, 2012 9:07:45 GMT -5
Evidently two thirds of the KTP rank and file feel the issues addressed in the tentative contract were completely irrelevant with regard to their concerns. So they did not care about the ratification vote one way or the other.
As for me, I'll consider voting "yes" once we have an entirely new BC and 862 is split into two separate locals. What is starkly clear is that there is no benefit to KTP employees in sharing UAW Local 862 with LAP employees.
As for how hard Scot had to fight in negotiating the tentative agreement, my understanding is the fight was not so much with the Company as it was with Steve Stone and the LAP bargaining committee.
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Post by trinitus on Feb 21, 2012 11:12:24 GMT -5
OK Brent you may be right on the national RTBU thing, I say may because I haven't actually looked to see if/what is in there about it. I do know there is a system to see how people are transferred but I only want what is fair to everyone in this local. Simple solution is either give everyone the right to retain RTBU or have everyone give up their RTBU rights, including those that have already went to LAP from KTP or KTP from LAP.
The low turn out number might have been based on the location of the vote, hour's to vote and the complete lack of what was in the contract. As for the re-balance thing, I think it was given away while Sutton was Building Chair (I hope I got the right one), if it was to be instated then the company shouldn't re-balance until the new model year not 1/4, 1/2 or 3/4 model year.
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Post by ktpgal89 on Feb 21, 2012 19:06:33 GMT -5
Wow what a turnout of voters. NOT!!!!!! Sure hope there is a better showing next time around. I know this sounds crazy, but just about everyone on midnights in paint didn't even know when the election was...we were really surprised when the letter was brought around last night because it was usually talked about and we were encouraged to vote by the committeeperson, but nothing was ever said about voting...not one person on my team voted...pretty sad!!
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Post by brenteskridge on Feb 21, 2012 19:52:43 GMT -5
Trinitus: I put the information to you so you could look it up to see what it is I was saying to you. I wasn't going to dispute how you felt about everything else but I just wanted to make sure that you knew what I was saying was correct by giving you the pages to read so that you could get a better understanding of the RTBU issue.
KTPGAL89: I asked this question on another post as well. " Did you all in paint get a copy of the contract book"? If yes, then at the top in blue it told everyone what time and where the vote was taking place. It also gave the time and day that the leadership was going to be down at the hall for 12 hours that day to answer any questions that our membership had about the contract. So if your answer was "YES", then I have a hard time understanding why people couldn't come out and vote. If you all did not get a copy of the contract then that is a big deal but I am going out on a limb here and say that the contract books was passed around. If I am wrong then let me be the first to say that I am sorry for my comment but I will find out on my next post if my comment is wrong. I will add this that I am sure that on the day it was passed out that there may have been a few that was not handed one due to either flipping out, having the day off, you get what I am trying to say and with that being the case any of those people that fall into that issue still had two weeks to ask for a copy if they didn't get one. I know that Bryan is taking all suggestions that he sees on here and taking that information back to the team to discuss. They want to know what the issues are so that they can go back and try to fix the issues that caused the contract to be voted down.
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Post by 69boss302 on Feb 21, 2012 20:02:44 GMT -5
In our area the books were not passed out to ea individual. There were a couple thrown on every picnic table, not nearly enough for the whole area. But what more do we expect from our sorry A*S local UAW!
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Post by 69boss302 on Feb 21, 2012 20:09:01 GMT -5
Trinitus: I put the information to you so you could look it up to see what it is I was saying to you. I wasn't going to dispute how you felt about everything else but I just wanted to make sure that you knew what I was saying was correct by giving you the pages to read so that you could get a better understanding of the RTBU issue. KTPGAL89: I asked this question on another post as well. " Did you all in paint get a copy of the contract book"? If yes, then at the top in blue it told everyone what time and where the vote was taking place. It also gave the time and day that the leadership was going to be down at the hall for 12 hours that day to answer any questions that our membership had about the contract. So if your answer was "YES", then I have a hard time understanding why people couldn't come out and vote. If you all did not get a copy of the contract then that is a big deal but I am going out on a limb here and say that the contract books was passed around. If I am wrong then let me be the first to say that I am sorry for my comment but I will find out on my next post if my comment is wrong. I will add this that I am sure that on the day it was passed out that there may have been a few that was not handed one due to either flipping out, having the day off, you get what I am trying to say and with that being the case any of those people that fall into that issue still had two weeks to ask for a copy if they didn't get one. I know that Bryan is taking all suggestions that he sees on here and taking that information back to the team to discuss. They want to know what the issues are so that they can go back and try to fix the issues that caused the contract to be voted down. Brent are you still on nightshift? If you are, why are you on this blog at 7:52pm, when you are supposed to working and are getting paid by FORD Motor Co?
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Feb 21, 2012 22:22:57 GMT -5
Please do not deter our elected officials from participating. Years ago some of my union brothers/sisters went to the company complaining about me posting on here during working hours as well. We all have internet capable phones, so the more participation, the better. If we don't like the contract, vote no...but please offer suggestions as to what is needed to get it passed. Telling our leaders they suck at their job is not something this local agreement can address. If you feel they're not doing their job, start calling the international service rep, Mike Abel. If they are not doing time studies properly, submitting grievances when they're needed, or any contractual issue, stand up and fight. Electing team leaders in a union shop where our international believes seniority matters and they should be bid leads me to believe this could be considered discrimination...please contact the international and ask your questions if you hate the answers you're getting here.
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Post by trinitus on Feb 21, 2012 22:48:34 GMT -5
Trinitus: I put the information to you so you could look it up to see what it is I was saying to you. I wasn't going to dispute how you felt about everything else but I just wanted to make sure that you knew what I was saying was correct by giving you the pages to read so that you could get a better understanding of the RTBU issue. KTPGAL89: I asked this question on another post as well. " Did you all in paint get a copy of the contract book"? If yes, then at the top in blue it told everyone what time and where the vote was taking place. It also gave the time and day that the leadership was going to be down at the hall for 12 hours that day to answer any questions that our membership had about the contract. So if your answer was "YES", then I have a hard time understanding why people couldn't come out and vote. If you all did not get a copy of the contract then that is a big deal but I am going out on a limb here and say that the contract books was passed around. If I am wrong then let me be the first to say that I am sorry for my comment but I will find out on my next post if my comment is wrong. I will add this that I am sure that on the day it was passed out that there may have been a few that was not handed one due to either flipping out, having the day off, you get what I am trying to say and with that being the case any of those people that fall into that issue still had two weeks to ask for a copy if they didn't get one. I know that Bryan is taking all suggestions that he sees on here and taking that information back to the team to discuss. They want to know what the issues are so that they can go back and try to fix the issues that caused the contract to be voted down. Brent are you still on nightshift? If you are, why are you on this blog at 7:52pm, when you are supposed to working and are getting paid by FORD Motor Co? Maybe because it is break time. I agree with ScottR, our rep's do not have to be on here. We do not nee for them to stop coming on here, sometime's this is the only way people find out anything abou what is going on in the plant and the Rep's usually comfirm that.
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Post by brenteskridge on Feb 21, 2012 22:50:06 GMT -5
When I did answer the question it was during break time. When you read it you should have seen that by the time that was on your computer unless your computer is showing the wrong just as my account on here is showing the wrong time. ScottR comments shows 11:24 and it is 10:45pm so please come up with something better to complain about other than the fact that I was trying to answer questions that are posted on here.
I try to give contractual answers and I try to answer other questions to what I may believe, or I even give my point of view on a thread. I will be on phone duty from 11:30-1 if you would like to talk about any issue or you can even call my cell phone 718-6596.
You may be frustrated and if you are I understand but I can't really answer that because I have no clue who 69boss302 is. You could be management, a vendor or just some average joe that likes to come on this site to see whats new in the world. You have my number and if there is anything that I can do to help or answer for you I will do my best in helping you.
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Post by almost30 on Feb 22, 2012 4:55:33 GMT -5
I REFUSE to vote YES on any local contract until WE ALL get a bandsaw!
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Feb 22, 2012 5:14:12 GMT -5
^^^^^^^^^^^^LMAO^^^^^^^^^^^^I tell ya, I feel a t-shirt coming on. This could be lucrative!
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Post by trinitus on Feb 22, 2012 8:44:43 GMT -5
I just can't believe what happened tonight. Our rep came by and was aking us what we thought of the contract and what we would like to see different. When we started telling him he argued with us, if he was not going to listen why would he even ask us what we thought?
Just more lip service and no real answer, more and more out of touch everyday and some still do not get it.
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Post by uawhater71 on Feb 22, 2012 9:22:08 GMT -5
It doesn't matter if the contract doesn't pass again anyway. They will just keep shoving it down our fucking throats and use their scare tactics till they get it to go thru. And to Scott r ,,, I do Kno people that called international and they was pretty much black balled and can't get any of the bc to come out at all. The only body you are gonna talk to is mike abell and he is in deep with the good ole boy club.
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Post by beenaround on Feb 22, 2012 10:08:41 GMT -5
I'm with you uawhater, I dealt with that lying, caniving, rat Mike when he was the BC. Talking to him is like walking on a treadmill, you keep on walking but you just don't get anywhere.
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Post by uawhater71 on Feb 22, 2012 12:08:11 GMT -5
All the people that are bitching about bidding out the teamleader jobs which wouldn't do nothing but screw the the guys on the line doing the jobs. Cause you are gonna get someone bid in on those jobs and they will never be around to take care of his people. If you are so worried about jobs being bid out why aren't you bitching about bidding out all of the appointed spots that the UAw bc appoint their friends and family to. See they don't want to hear about that. Like I said before you have to be a good ole boy.
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Post by marcus on Feb 22, 2012 12:27:27 GMT -5
Bid team leaders worked great at lap.Will work fine here to.
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