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Post by ScottR@KTP on Feb 21, 2012 22:39:33 GMT -5
We all have been told the company wants to bid the team leader positions while decreasing team ratio 10:1 and increasing our workforce by over 100...why would the company want this? Why are we not being told of the new responsibilities? It's just another example of "just pass the contract and we will tell you what's in it later". Typical, but expected, bullshit. Being lied to over and over has become old. Having Settles and his thug posse come into the plants to scare ppl into voting for a piece of shit contract has caused the membership's faith in the UAW to sink to an all-new low. Using social media to lie to and scare the members is totally classless. Removing seniority from a union shop is unacceptable. Harassment by management on a daily basis is unacceptable. Not being paid for your break is unacceptable. Being told my a committeeman that "it's not my job" is unacceptable. Being told my a bargainer and building chair "it's your work Monday-Friday, but only assemblers get 12 hour OT on weekends" is highly unacceptable. Electing any position on the floor vs. bidding by seniority and a clean record is ridiculous. MOA? A secret handshake with no written details or explanation as to what it entails? I'm pretty sure it's a single page letter with big bold letters reading: THE COMPANY CAN DO WHATEVER THEY FEEL NECESSARY ON ANY GIVEN DAY...DEAL WITH IT
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Feb 21, 2012 22:40:19 GMT -5
Vote no to pay raises, no to gatorade and band saws... I'm thinking this will make a nice t-shirt: BAND SAWS AND GATORADE...who wants one?
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Feb 21, 2012 22:47:03 GMT -5
Blaming every fucked up thing in this plant on the MOA is a cop-out.
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Feb 21, 2012 22:48:53 GMT -5
I think all of the elected union officials need re-training...more trips to Black Lake. I think there needs to be a explanation as to why an MOA is so different from say, Happy Land? Hearing, 'that's the way it is here", or "they can do that", "although you are an inspector, you do not get to inspect on weekends, assemblers do"...add your own.
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Post by trinitus on Feb 21, 2012 22:50:51 GMT -5
Don't hold back Scott, tell us how really feel.
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Post by gocards on Feb 21, 2012 22:53:45 GMT -5
Wow I like it I hope you feel better It makes me feel better.
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Feb 22, 2012 0:28:50 GMT -5
I feel great...life is better than good. I will complain for another 10.6 yrs...then u will never hear from me again. :-)
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Feb 22, 2012 5:17:35 GMT -5
BAND SAWS AND GATORADE!!!
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Post by kbrundag on Feb 22, 2012 7:29:14 GMT -5
"They can do that." That's funny, I have not heard that said one time at LAP. I think its weird to have two Ford plants so close together, yet have two different locals. Local 862 and Local You Suck, weird huh?
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Post by marcus on Feb 22, 2012 9:08:42 GMT -5
What do team leaders make an hour under new contract
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Post by brenteskridge on Feb 22, 2012 10:41:08 GMT -5
Marcus, TL's make the same at this point as to what they what they where always making. If this local contract would have passed they still would have stayed at the same pay rate ( .50€ on the hour more) as it has been. In order for that to happen, both parties would have to come to an agreement as stated in the national on how it is going to work. They discussed this issue during negotiations but could not come to an agreement. In the national language you can find it on 38A-47A on how each plant will try implement this process if possible.
This is an issue that some people are for and others are against because some like the fact as a team leader being a bid job and the other half is against. I have been clear on the fact that I like this only if the company agrees to go to the 10/1 ratio for teams. The end result would mean that this would be creating more jobs within the plants.
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Post by nvsked1 on Feb 22, 2012 11:51:23 GMT -5
This is an issue that some people are for and others are against because some like the fact as a team leader being a bid job and the other half is against. I have been clear on the fact that I like this only if the company agrees to go to the 10/1 ratio for teams. The end result would mean that this would be creating more jobs within the plants. Half?? I'm sorry, once again the Union leadership is in denial, (vote totals were 2 to 1) it seems its hard to embrace the idea that the memberships attitude towards team concept is changing. I can see a vote recruiting drive on the horizon, hopefully we won't see any fear mongering or arm twisting... But I have concerns....just sayin
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Post by marcus on Feb 22, 2012 12:13:25 GMT -5
It should not be a grandfather in for team leaders.If its 10 or 14 to one it should be bid team leaders.
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Post by marcus on Feb 22, 2012 12:17:28 GMT -5
We need more bid jobs in this plant we gave up cleanup or messed up alot of fork jobs.U don't want to be working the line with 25 years in
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Post by brenteskridge on Feb 22, 2012 13:12:09 GMT -5
I agree on that as well Marcus. It doesn't need to be grandfathered in.
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Post by Ex-metalman on Feb 22, 2012 13:15:23 GMT -5
Thats where its headin Marcus.I have 17 yrs in and Ill bet anyone they will get rid of fork jobs and skilled trades before we retire.Hell they could get a co. that specifies in all types of maintainance and sub it out to the highest bidder.They could even be union.And ill bet you could get a guy to do maint. for less than we make.THEY ARE DOIN IT WITH VATS.2 tier level workers???Same thing.And sub out the fork jobs.You can get a guy to ride around and deliver stock for 16 to 18 an hour.Thats gonna happen.Bottom line I THINK.is our UAW has ZERO power and all are reps. are just PUPPETS FOR THE BIG SHOW.
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Post by marcus on Feb 22, 2012 14:06:55 GMT -5
I. Guess they can pay all of our medical bills to then lol.
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Post by bryano on Feb 22, 2012 16:40:14 GMT -5
They tried outsourcing the docks at LAP a few years ago and they found out it didn't work. It lasted a year and they were brought back to the regular fork drivers. Of course that doesn't mean they won't try again at some point. They also need to get rid of Ceva. The small parts that are brought over from them are a mess. That could be run a lot more efficiently if it were in house. There is to much extra stock laying around everywhere.
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Feb 22, 2012 19:58:17 GMT -5
And no one is still telling us what the responsibilities will be for the new TL that the COMPANY wants to bid and is willing to add 100+ jobs to get it this way. Why reduce ratio and add 100 jobs if it doesn't benefit the company?
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Post by feedemfishheads on Feb 22, 2012 21:02:01 GMT -5
10 -1 just as well be zero to 100 if you get a team leader that doesn't do his job and take care of his team. Being able to remove someone if they aren't doing their job and putting them back on a regular job , usually is enough motivation to keep your team leader working for you. Bid positions wouldn't be able to be removed by the team. A good way for the company to eliminate the team leader all together. Leave it as it was...........If they want to give us more help, then give us another extra 4 upgrades for every 60 jobs. Then we would get the extra jobs they say we would get, and could use them where they are needed.
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Feb 22, 2012 22:04:24 GMT -5
Under the current system, a TL only has to please 50% +1 to keep their position. Less than half of a disgruntled team can't vote out a TL if the lack the majority. No system is perfect, but enabling the membership to utilize their seniority makes much more sense.
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Post by nvsked1 on Feb 22, 2012 22:46:30 GMT -5
Under the current system, a TL only has to please 50% +1 to keep their position. Less than half of a disgruntled team can't vote out a TL if the lack the majority. No system is perfect, but enabling the membership to utilize their seniority makes much more sense. Agree.... Band Saws and Gatorade.... Attica Attica Attica.... No justice No peace Sorry got caught up in the moment.... Seniority Rules
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Post by trinitus on Feb 22, 2012 22:46:55 GMT -5
My understanding is that the TL responsibilities would be more like a supervisor. No piss breaks or such crap as that. There would/should be an extra person AWOL/utility type person for those things. Or that is what I was lead to believe. If that is the case why would you want to elect someone who ISN'T GOING TO GIVE YOU A PISS BREAK?
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Feb 22, 2012 23:44:14 GMT -5
My point....
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Post by rockyt on Feb 23, 2012 2:47:15 GMT -5
Who says they won't give piss breaks? This is KTP isn't it? I've seen management give piss breaks and you said they would be more like a line supervisor, right?
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Post by ktp399 on Feb 23, 2012 3:19:06 GMT -5
My team leader now gives piss breaks, covers the job when needed, get's stock, keeps mgmt out of our business, and gets us covered if we can't make it in. He even does the union's job when they aren't around. If the new TL can't do this, then I don't want the bid person. They wouldn't last on our team.
The company is not going to leave an extra person on each team for utility.
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Post by jgt150ktp on Feb 23, 2012 3:59:47 GMT -5
Ok ScottR I'll ask you this: What happens when you get someone with 20 plus years that gets the bid and decides he/she is just gonna stand at the computer all day and not take of their people ? Bathroom breaks, minor repairs?
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Feb 23, 2012 4:19:52 GMT -5
All I can tell you is...life isn't fair. I've had great elected TLs...I've had shitty ones...I've had great bid 'we called them upgraders'...and I've had shitty ones. No system is perfect, but one that enables a union employee to utilize their seniority is the best we can do.
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Post by tryingtomakeit on Feb 23, 2012 7:38:08 GMT -5
Ok ScottR I'll ask you this: What happens when you get someone with 20 plus years that gets the bid and decides he/she is just gonna stand at the computer all day and not take of their people ? Bathroom breaks, minor repairs? This is what happens. You put on your big boy pants, hit your light, wait an appropriate amount of time (40min seems to be the standard, dont know if that is contractual) and if the dead ass doesnt show, you hit the red button, go do your buisness, then go back to the line. At that point youll be pulled off the line with your sup and rep, then you explain that your an adult, and you arent going to piss/shit in your pants for ANYBODY. Then, depending on what the sup does, you have your rep take care of it. If it doesnt get taken care of, call the ACLU, they love that kind of shit. And if he/she isnt taking care of repairs, theyll get DQ'd. Its really pretty simple.
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Post by Ktp1989 on Feb 23, 2012 7:40:11 GMT -5
Ok ScottR I'll ask you this: What happens when you get someone with 20 plus years that gets the bid and decides he/she is just gonna stand at the computer all day and not take of their people ? Bathroom breaks, minor repairs? It's real simple...if they don't do the job as outlined then it's managements responsibility to penalized and removed them just like any other bid job in the plant. It doesn't matter what you do...if you don't perform your job you are then disciplined and up to removal. I worked at LAP for years and every upgrader I had was a 30 plus year seniority....and they all took care of the people in the area!! Every single one....100% because they look out for you....not the company.
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