|
Post by Ktp1989 on Mar 14, 2012 13:23:58 GMT -5
they don't want to change it...we vote it down again...simple.
|
|
rkr
Amateur
Posts: 103
|
Post by rkr on Mar 14, 2012 16:25:02 GMT -5
The problem is the title, if your gonna call it a TEAM Leader, then the team should have a say in it! If we want to make it a bid job then call it what it is, Managements puppet, Then if you BID on it, YOU Deserve It!!
|
|
|
Post by ScottR@KTP on Mar 14, 2012 22:10:46 GMT -5
Call it what they are...glorified babysitters for a bunch of needy crybabies. Are you trying to say that the current system has no puppets? LMAO No perfect system...suckasses either way...
|
|
gangstarick
Amateur
screw you guys, i'm going home
Posts: 87
|
Post by gangstarick on Mar 15, 2012 22:06:22 GMT -5
Why so quiet today, I guess no one has anymore to say except me.
A few of us went around the plant on different shifts, some of us work day's and the rest of us works night's. What we did was simply ask everyone what they thought of the Team Leader's being bidded verse's voted in. Surprisingly the final result's were about 50/50, now I would have thought it would be more of a vote in type result.
A typical answer that we got was I don't want some piece of crap (cleaned it up a little) team leader and not have a way to get rid of them. Our answer was, if you have a piece of crap team leader and their time is up and no one runs against them what have you accomplished.? Their response was in two years we vote them out. Us well in two years and no one still wants the job then what? They told us well in two more years we will get rid of them.
OK, now if you keep waiting two years and keep the same piece of crap team leader (in some cases this is what happens) why would you not want to bid them out? Makes no sense to keep the same person and they don't take care of the team but hey, it is your team.
Sometimes we asked them don't you want more bid jobs? they answered HELL YES. But you don't want the team leader being bidded? HELL NO. We don't want management to pick our team leader.
So, everyone that has a bid job, must have gotten there on their looks alone. Management AND our Union Leader's had no say in it whatsoever. If you have the seniority and a clean work record you will get the bid job and yes both Management and our Union Leader's do go over the list to see who is the one most qualified to get the job. Management does not pick the people by their selves and our Union isn't telling the whole truth on this.
|
|
|
Post by laidoff on Mar 16, 2012 2:41:55 GMT -5
I am in u trim night shift. i can tell u if team leaders are bid jobs nobody on my team will vote for it. this is the only issue we have. I will not vote for it either. I am a team leader in U trim..
|
|
|
Post by tryingtomakeit on Mar 16, 2012 3:16:43 GMT -5
For all those that would like to see them bid, and know what it means to have a bid opportunity, and have seniority matter. I say to you all. Give it up. You can't fix stupid. The MOA brainwashing worked. Let them toil for 30yrs chained to the line. Ford loves that shit, after 30yrs of that, they usually only pay out a pension for 18mos. So lay in there and get it grandpa/grandma, and make sure to stay on your TL's good side so you get your extra smoke break! At least you'll know you had a say in who got to save wear and tear on their bodies, while you fell apart. Pssssssttt, I'll let you in on a little secret, that TL you think has your best interests at heart, could give a shit less about you. He/she just knows they don't have to hit it hard for years at a time. And all it cost them was a smoke break and the occasional box of Krispy kremes!
|
|
|
Post by bluelu on Mar 16, 2012 11:50:38 GMT -5
Iam utrim also. My team will vote no if team leaders job stay the same. We want seniority to count for something. Scott said the company wants to select the team leaders, so he said we will just keep it the same. What a joke Scott, tell ford f##k you. We decide who works where not the company. That is why we are union. To give up on 100 new jobs is a joke. Grow some balls.
|
|
|
Post by ScottR@KTP on Mar 17, 2012 17:14:49 GMT -5
I can't even come close to understanding how bidding the jobs equals the company picking who they want? Wouldn't bidding them take the company completely out of the equation...if you have a clean record, you can bid. If your record sucks, you know the rules, you can't bid.
|
|
|
Post by Ktp1989 on Mar 18, 2012 9:54:29 GMT -5
It amazes me that this is even up for discussion...Bid Jobs, add jobs and seniority? What's the thought process. This shouldn't even be up for discussion in my opinion.
|
|
86gn
New Member
Posts: 43
|
Post by 86gn on Mar 18, 2012 11:47:38 GMT -5
I can't even come close to understanding how bidding the jobs equals the company picking who they want? Wouldn't bidding them take the company completely out of the equation...if you have a clean record, you can bid. If your record sucks, you know the rules, you can't bid. They keep saying that is the only way it can be to scare more people, and if the rest of the union brass thinnks like brent, that one of the reasons they dont want the x-tra jobs is so we dont get more transfers that is so anti union and dumb.
|
|
|
Post by thintwowin on Mar 18, 2012 11:49:24 GMT -5
LoL welcome to KTP. This is not a traditional operating agreement plant. This is how we have done it for 20 years. This is our normal. Right or wrong, it's how KTP rolls. You can't stop it. It will not even be voted on IMO. Ktpers are more mad their not going to get the chance to go to Lap to get them 1300 jobs. When everyone else has got the chance to come here. You want to change team leaders? You have to change the whole operating agreement. It's not as simple as you make it out. My team has a binder of team rules. I sure don't want someone that is not from my area trying to enforce our team rules.
|
|
|
Post by ScottR@KTP on Mar 18, 2012 12:17:43 GMT -5
There is another item that is laughable...special binder of team rules. When I first came to KTP, my team on the frame line had a binder of "special team rules"...but after one talk with Brent as my rep...the only binder of rules that matters is the contract. No team can enforce special team rules as long as ONE person doesn't agree with them. If you are being bullied into obeying these special rules and don't agree with them, get the union involved...it's pretty much illegal to have special rules that supposedly trump the contract. My 1st team had them to pretty much remove seniority from every equation...that's what you do at KTP...remove the seniority from everything. That's why the morale is so pitiful...that's why there are so many back stabbing rat bastards...it's really that simple.
|
|
|
Post by thintwowin on Mar 18, 2012 12:47:04 GMT -5
Our team likes these rules , makes life fair amongest our team. Seniority still counts on our team. Their are just certain situations management puts us in we use these. Yes it has to 100% yes vote to go against the contract. If that situation is even in our contract.
|
|
|
Post by mulewrong on Mar 18, 2012 20:00:57 GMT -5
Our team likes these rules , makes life fair amongest our team. Seniority still counts on our team. Their are just certain situations management puts us in we use these. Yes it has to 100% yes vote to go against the contract. If that situation is even in our contract. GO AGAINST THE CONTRACT!!! YOU PEOPLE ARE UNBELIEVABLE... WTF YOU PICK AND CHOOSE WHERE THE CONTRACT APPLIES!!! GEE ANY WONDER MANAGEMENT DOESN'T RESPECT THE THING WHEN UAW MEMBERS DON'T... WHY DID ANY OF YOU APPLY FOR A JOB AT A UNION SHOP.... I KNOW BECAUSE THEY PAID WELL.... IF ITS UP TO THE PEOPLE WE HAVE HERE, THEN WE'LL JUST GO AGAINST THE CONTACT... OMG THIS PLACE IS DOOMED... FU YOU PEOPLE I'M WRITING MY OWN RULES I KNOW WHAT WORKS FOR ME.... THIS TYPE OF THINKING, YOU PEOPLE DESERVE WHAT YOU GET, I KNOW I'LL MAKE A RULE I DON'T HAVE TO LISTEN TO YOU....FUCKING A
|
|
|
Post by ScottR@KTP on Mar 18, 2012 22:34:35 GMT -5
Thanks mule...I can't agree more...they admit they are going against the contract. LMAO
|
|
|
Post by brenteskridge on Mar 19, 2012 1:25:03 GMT -5
I can't even come close to understanding how bidding the jobs equals the company picking who they want? Wouldn't bidding them take the company completely out of the equation...if you have a clean record, you can bid. If your record sucks, you know the rules, you can't bid. They keep saying that is the only way it can be to scare more people, and if the rest of the union brass thinnks like brent, that one of the reasons they dont want the x-tra jobs is so we dont get more transfers that is so anti union and dumb. Well you must not read that much because if you do then you would have seen in posts that I have put that "I am for team leaders being a bid job". I also try to give opinions from what I am hearing from people that are for it and those that are against having team leaders as a bid job. I would just say wait until the BC and guys get back to talks with the company and get everyone out to vote no matter how you vote.
|
|
|
Post by thintwowin on Mar 19, 2012 6:32:26 GMT -5
Yep we go against, letting the high seniority man get to flip out first every time. We have a go home list we rotate. We go against the 10 minutes enviromental breaks a hour and take 20 every 2 hours. That's about it I think that has conflict with the contract.
|
|
|
Post by mbddice on Mar 19, 2012 16:34:22 GMT -5
I CAN TELL YOU'RE NOT BE HONEST IN YOU R STATEMENT ALREADY. YOU SAY YOU'VE WALKED AND TALKED TO THE PEOPLE ON THE FLOOR. EVERY TIME YOU AND THE COMMITEE DECIDES TO WALK, SOMEHOW YOU AND "THE CREW" STOP AT TURNOVER AND DISAPPEAR. NEVER. AND LET ME STRONGLY EMPHASIS NEVER. DO YOU AND " THE CREW " WALK DOWN FRAME 2. SCARED? DON'T WANT TO HEAR WHAT NEEDS TO BE SAID? FRAMELINE HAS ALWAYS STEPPED UP, BUT SEEMS TO US, YOU DON'T LISTEN. PRETTY MUCH TURN YOUR BACKS AND WALK AWAY. WHY? MIKE DOWNS
|
|
|
Post by Ktp1989 on Mar 19, 2012 17:05:49 GMT -5
Why not schedule 2 meetings at the Union hall...one for day and one for nights and get the voice of the membership...instead of selecting whom you want to talk to. Is it because you don't want to hear from the membership that really have the issues...or you would rather ask the "team leaders" if they they we should bid the team leader jobs? ? Makes sense
|
|
|
Post by ScottR@KTP on Mar 19, 2012 19:34:52 GMT -5
Sounds to me that our negotiators are getting ready to show us how much they are against us by completely removing the opportunity for any KTPer to transfer to LAP. What a joke! 1300+ ppl transferring in with not one KTPer getting the chance to experience Happy Land.
|
|
|
Post by lapworker on Mar 19, 2012 20:25:03 GMT -5
It's not Happy at LAP, we work just as hard as any factory worker in the ford system except for parts plants!
|
|
|
Post by Ktp1989 on Mar 19, 2012 21:13:22 GMT -5
alot of unhappy people at happy land...friends of mine with bid jobs with 22 years being forced to nights because of all the seniority coming in from other plants...could have stayed at KTP and help whatever shift they wanted...Happyland not so Happy now.
|
|
|
Post by ktpelec on Mar 20, 2012 5:55:25 GMT -5
I've talked to a couple of people that were on days in U-Trim, now they're being forced to nights at LAP, they're not so "Happy". I see the same changes that took place over the last several years at KTP happening at LAP now....
|
|
|
Post by lap65 on Mar 20, 2012 8:55:25 GMT -5
Dont know where your friends at LAP work, but no one on a bid job can be forced to nights until they open up for rolling & thats not likely to happen for at least 6-8 months, some union reps have even said a year. By the time the c crew gets ironed out & everything settles down many that think they will be rolled will be fine. I do think some assemblers have been rolled & I dont know the details on how that happened but not bid jobs.
|
|
|
Post by kbrundag on Mar 20, 2012 17:49:38 GMT -5
Dont know where your friends at LAP work, but no one on a bid job can be forced to nights until they open up for rolling & thats not likely to happen for at least 6-8 months, some union reps have even said a year. By the time the c crew gets ironed out & everything settles down many that think they will be rolled will be fine. I do think some assemblers have been rolled & I dont know the details on how that happened but not bid jobs. Copy that on the bid jobs. It's just assemblers for now. Takes early 1994 to hold days in body, can't imagine any other department having 22 years seniority rolling to nights, not happening. Sounds like his friends expressing fears, not reality. Still 2000 seniority holding days in final.
|
|
|
Post by oldasdirt on Mar 21, 2012 3:51:02 GMT -5
kbrundag I liked your post. Everybody here talks about team concepts but for some reason team is spelled with a I in it. one for me and screw the rest. that's what I see most of the time.
|
|
|
Post by marcus on Mar 21, 2012 4:27:12 GMT -5
Anything on new contract? Do we get to bid team leaders?
|
|
|
Post by trinitus on Mar 23, 2012 9:24:09 GMT -5
A typical answer that we got was I don't want some piece of crap (cleaned it up a little) team leader and not have a way to get rid of them. Our answer was, if you have a piece of crap team leader and their time is up and no one runs against them what have you accomplished.? Their response was in two years we vote them out. Us well in two years and no one still wants the job then what? They told us well in two more years we will get rid of them. OK, now if you keep waiting two years and keep the same piece of crap team leader (in some cases this is what happens) why would you not want to bid them out? Makes no sense to keep the same person and they don't take care of the team but hey, it is your team. So if youo have a piece of crap TL and keep voting that individual back in because no one elese want's the job, why would you not want to bid the TL job? If you get a piece of crap nothing lost right? Then again on the other hand, you stand to gain a good TL. If you play poker you know you don't always win the game but you can win the hand. Makes sense to me to bid the jobs now more than ever.
|
|
|
Post by remember1976 on Apr 21, 2012 15:19:38 GMT -5
I voted "NO" for reasons other than the TL issue. Among my reasons was the LAP transfer issue.
If the only contract "fix" is to the TL issue I will continue to vote "NO."
Frankly, I do not care if KTP never ratifies another local contract. KTP production continues regardless.
I wish someone would answer this question: What benefit is derived from KTP and LAP being represented by the same local union? None that I can see.
|
|
|
Post by caprudedawg on Apr 21, 2012 16:48:55 GMT -5
They get a better deal on popcorn and soda when they buy in bulk.
|
|