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Post by Paul Revere on Nov 26, 2014 0:54:44 GMT -5
Your help is needed! It's time for a ONE FORD SENIORITY! Wouldn't you like your "Date of Hire" to be worth something when it really counts? How about you Production worker; you start an Apprenticeship and find out you can be forced Out-of Zone or back to the line after being a 20yr UAW dues paying member of your Local/Plant by someone from another Union with just a few years seniority at your Plant/UAW? Tragically you waited years to be tested or sat on the list just to have those same people bump you out. It's happened at this local already...to a Welder and a Die Set-up person.
There will be those who will be vehemently opposed to this Proposal, rest assured they are a loud minority who care nothing about your seniority.
Contract Proposals must be submitted by Dec 1st to the Union offices, Union Hall or your Committeeperson. Drop them in that box and let's make a change!
Just print out the download and sign it!ONE FORD, ONE SENIORITY!
Document 3.pdf (155.53 KB)
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Post by tryingtomakeit on Nov 26, 2014 8:19:01 GMT -5
You know when I first hired in and thought that I had a legit shot at getting in to the apprentice program I'd have been on board with this. Now I know that unless I'm part of a bullshit law suit theres no way in hell I'm ever getting in. So.....yawn.
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Post by nra4life on Nov 26, 2014 8:34:59 GMT -5
never accept a job without doing your research about it, this seniority skilled trade rule is a very well known rule. Alot of people didnt move forward with the program because of the rule. Dont accept the job and then complain about it.
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Post by tryingtomakeit on Nov 26, 2014 9:47:54 GMT -5
I didn't pay attention before. This post and a duplicate on the LAP board are your only two posts. So this isn't a concern you have for the membership as a whole, just yourself. Good luck with that. But then again, the union is all about self serving individuals now a days isn't it.
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Post by Ex-metalman on Nov 26, 2014 10:32:49 GMT -5
I have been a welder for over 35yrs and have a small welding business.Ive been here since 95 and never thought the skilled trades was that big of deal?Im sure by now IF I would of kissed the right ass I would be in there too.Yes you get to sit around and have slack time and talk to a the supervisors,and for the most part ALL the guys I know are cool.But the screwed up hours and responsibility doesn't appeal to me.I think your start date should be ONLY date they honor.No matter what job you take.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 13:10:28 GMT -5
Disagree, and here is why. If there were " one ford one seniority" as it's being called, in the event of a layoff, a person who hired in as a skilled trade could bump a junior vat if they chose too to keep a job.( let's keep in mind that some trades can already make more than ford pays elsewhere some can't) . If the shoe is on the other foot the vat can never bump the junior skilled trade cuz they aren't qualified. As far as in zone / out of zone business. I've done factory work all my life. This is my first auto plant but my third uaw job. I've also been in the sheet metal workers union and the gmp ( glass molders potters and allied workers) union. Not one of these jobs had any transfer rights at all. Although one plant that closed down on me did offer to let me transfer, but the job was in holland. True story.
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Post by beenaround on Nov 26, 2014 16:26:40 GMT -5
In the 2009 contract modification people that were hired off the street to skilled trades now have the right to bump vat employees if they were to be laid off from the trades. Sorry,but before this modification I went along with how the maintenance seniority rule was handled,now with that modification in place a persons ford seniority should be his seniority period. The 84 leveling date in place now is about washed up as there are not many employees transferring to other plants with prior to 84 hire in date. Why should a trades person be allowed to bump a vat employee out of a job without ever having production time?
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Post by cal50 on Nov 26, 2014 17:46:05 GMT -5
Everyone does have one seniority date when hired into Ford / production or trades.
If you are production and become an apprentice and complete the course it makes zero sense to grant added seniority to your new trades job when you never worked in the field prior to becoming a tradesman or woman.
The flip side is any tradesman hired into trades (and has zero production time) time getting their full seniority credited to a production job / bid.
Its a double edge sword and cuts both ways so I am not sure the intent but at face value makes little sense. The leveling date is a "partial credit" measure and gives a token amount of seniority.
Be careful what you wish for.
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Post by cal50 on Nov 26, 2014 17:50:03 GMT -5
Why should a trades person be allowed to bump a vat employee out of a job without ever having production time? A trades person might be able to perform the production job but not the other way around. Seniority and the ability to perform work should be the deciding factor in a ILO situation.
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Post by beenaround on Nov 26, 2014 18:46:52 GMT -5
Why should a trades person be allowed to bump a vat employee out of a job without ever having production time? A trades person might be able to perform the production job but not the other way around. Seniority and the ability to perform work should be the deciding factor in a ILO situation. A tradesperson would have to train on a production job to learn just as well as a production person learning a trades job. Granted all facets of the trade may take longer but the person could still learn it. My point is if there were to be a production layoff, a senior vat employee cannot bump a trades person of his job regardless of how little time that trades person has.
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Post by Ex-metalman on Nov 27, 2014 10:01:55 GMT -5
I would bet anything before I retire Ford subs the Skilled trades out,and material handling too.My friend worked at a plant and they did it,a Co. Had a contract and put their guys in the shop and that was that.Cheaper pay of course.Bullshit tho.Catch was the Co.wotkers were union so his union allowed it.?They can do that .
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Post by LAP2000 on Nov 27, 2014 16:05:45 GMT -5
And that is exactly what Voith would love to see happen . They have maintenance contracts in plants over seas and maybe some in North America , though no UAW auto plants I don't think . They'd love to have all plant support services , cleanup , maintenance , stock ect .
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using proboards
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Post by bryano on Nov 30, 2014 17:37:31 GMT -5
They tried to outsource material handling at LAP and it was a big flop. It lasted less than a year. Not enough accountability to keep up with and move parts around.
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Post by skilley on Jan 13, 2015 21:04:45 GMT -5
I can understand all those people who want credit for their production time in trades... I mean now that someone has made it to journeyperson status, and made it through the 8000 hr training program it makes perfect sense they should leap frog ahead of the person who helped train the individual. Just thinking out loud here ... you know the journey people who help train individuals into journeyperson status may not have much incentive to help train that person if they were going to leap frog ahead of them in seniority.... Maybe that's why the program was set up with day one entry? I'm sure if a major break down occurred supervision would call the recently graduated apprentice with all that production time ... I mean that person with 20 yrs in trades can't compare to that recently graduated apprentice and their production time... Yes this would be a good change... it should benefit the program
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2015 7:16:43 GMT -5
No one forced you turds into the apprenticeship, if you don't like the guidelines don't go. If the company wouldn't have lowered the standards and scores over half you turds wouldn't even be in there. ONE UNION
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w84me
Amateur
Ford has the best union our money can buy
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Post by w84me on Jan 20, 2015 8:02:49 GMT -5
No one forced you turds into the apprenticeship, if you don't like the guidelines don't go. If the company wouldn't have lowered the standards and scores over half you turds wouldn't even be in there. ONE UNION Wow!
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Post by tiger66 on Jan 20, 2015 8:08:23 GMT -5
Seniority is seniority, if the union backs any, they should. Back all. Why should they pick and choose which seniority they back?if not all then transfers go in day 1. Department transfer day 1. What's the difference?
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Post by beenaround on Jan 20, 2015 8:16:36 GMT -5
No one forced you turds into the apprenticeship, if you don't like the guidelines don't go. If the company wouldn't have lowered the standards and scores over half you turds wouldn't even be in there. ONE UNION Wow! I would venture to guess that the people that entered the apprenticeship have been paying UAW union dues much longer than most trades here. Once again, Why then is it okay for a trades person that hired in off the street, displace a production person in the event of a trades layoff? Doesn't quite seem right!!
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Post by Ex-metalman on Jan 20, 2015 9:34:26 GMT -5
Still think seniority should matter before all else!!(sex,race,etc.)Just my 2 cents.The senior employee should have the right to LEARN a trade if he or she so desires to.There shouldn't even be a test.
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Post by Ktp1989 on Jan 22, 2015 2:41:20 GMT -5
I agree that seniority should come first, but as easy as that test was I believe anyone with any sense at all would pass and seniority would be the first in. If you can't pass that test then your not equipped to do the 4 years of schooling.
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Post by Ex-metalman on Jan 22, 2015 9:13:54 GMT -5
I guess I agree ,but evidently on this last test seniority didn't matter.Even if you passed ,because I work with several guys that have 95 and there's 99ers riding around on carts now.?So thats bullshit.
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Post by beenaround on Jan 22, 2015 11:57:04 GMT -5
Pretty darn sure there is a little more to it then that.^^^^^ Unfortunately!!!!!!
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Post by whiteford on Jan 22, 2015 21:07:22 GMT -5
I'm amazed. You new the rules before you got into the Apprenticeship. But now that you are in an Apprenticeship you don't like the rules anymore and you want to change them to suit you. You can make this real easy on your self. If you don't like the rules any more go back to production.
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Post by Ex-metalman on Jan 22, 2015 22:01:36 GMT -5
Pretty darn sure there is a little more to it then that.^^^^^ Unfortunately!!!!!! You think???
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Post by beenaround on Jan 23, 2015 10:53:06 GMT -5
I'm amazed. You new the rules before you got into the Apprenticeship. But now that you are in an Apprenticeship you don't like the rules anymore and you want to change them to suit you. You can make this real easy on your self. If you don't like the rules any more go back to production. The rule before the 2009 contract modification was that trades people hired off the street could not displace a production employee in the event of a trades layoff. But you're okay with that change? Changes can be made as evidenced in the forementioned 2009 contract. So I take it you are worried about the possibility of that type of change.
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Post by whiteford on Jan 26, 2015 8:14:09 GMT -5
That was 2011 contract. Skilled trades hired off the street got a 2007 seniority leveling date in production. It did not give skilled trades the right to use all there Ford seniority if hired off the street. This One Ford Seniority would give them that right to use there full Seniority. This proposal would be more disrupting than it would do good. I work with a lot of high Senior trades that were hired off the street. Some with 20 to 30 years. You want instant credit for all your years in Ford. Even thought you could not preform a tradesman job while working production. On the other hand I can walk over and preform your job at any given time. What about the production people that will be force out of zone if this change happened? A Tradesman can not displace a production worker now if they are laid off. They can only go into production if there is an opening.
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Post by beenaround on Jan 26, 2015 10:48:53 GMT -5
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Post by tryingtomakeit on Jan 26, 2015 11:44:21 GMT -5
With the lowered testing standards and some of the winners that have gone in under the lawsuit, i think there will be quite a few people in production that could walk right in and do the job of some of the new trades people. ?
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Post by ktpgal89 on Jan 27, 2015 19:01:01 GMT -5
With the lowered testing standards and some of the winners that have gone in under the lawsuit, i think there will be quite a few people in production that could walk right in and do the job of some of the new trades people. ? The lower testing standards is the absolute truth!!! I took the test when I first hired in '78 and it was a real test!! Very proud I passed high enough for electrician, but was soon laid off before being able to start. When we were called back in 89 life had changed my priorities and was not interested. I did retake the test again just because I wanted to see how I scored.-the test was dummied up so bad I didn't even have to study...it's starting to show since the old timers are retiring and the lines are being down longer and longer...
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Post by blackbird66 on Jan 28, 2015 5:41:30 GMT -5
So some one called a "civil rights " champion, brings a law suit that says in essence " Minorities are not smart enough to be tested at the same level, for the same job as non- minorities". Ford responds that all though they will admit to no wrong doing, they will concede that minorities are not smart enough to take the standard skilled trades test, and agree to change the standard, and give a number of non-eligible employees jobs that they may not be able to perform, and this is a win for said minorities?
Now the majority will look at all minorities in a trades position and assume that they are not qualified. So, those who claim to be ending racial discrimination are actually promoting it.......
What am I missing here?
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