gangstarick
Amateur
screw you guys, i'm going home
Posts: 87
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Post by gangstarick on May 10, 2011 10:13:25 GMT -5
For all the Scott E. supporters out there. In P-TRIM we recently had Scott out there to talk about the overloaded jobs. In the conversation he told us that all the jobs in TRIM were overcycled and the good news was that they couldn't add work to any jobs because of that. I talked to several other people in TRIM and was told that the jobs they were doing were at 60 mintes, what happened to the 54 minute work cycle. If all jobs are over cycled then what good does it have to have UAW people in the office "claiming" to be job study reps.
Why don't we just elect these people like we do everything else so they have to be accountable for their actions or lack of actions. Those UAW time study people bought off on these jobs without ever coming out to look at them, how can they say the jobs are doable without even knowing what the people on the line are doing.
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Post by ScottR@KTP on May 10, 2011 11:28:08 GMT -5
I have seen the time study process in body with our uaw reps...quite a joke. We need to hire an outside company to do time study in my opinion...actual studies without any interference.
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Post by brenteskridge on May 10, 2011 15:51:47 GMT -5
If there is a job or jobs that are overloaded then do a fair days work for a fair days pay. Don't run, work safe and with the job being overloaded then that equals the line going down. At that point management can either get you help or just accept the fact that the line is going down all day/night long. I know your thinking that this is a piss pour answer but that is the truth of it. You call your rep to come out and handle the issue if management is being playing dumb towards you.
It is a lot easier to find out if a job is a good study or a bad study for those on day shift. You can have a job that has a good study on it but the one thing you should always ask is this. "Does any part of my job process put me in a high cycle depending on what the unit calls for"?. I see jobs all the time that have a good study on it but with certain elements on each unit will cause a high cycle time for that unit. This gets worse depending on how many units they run in a row of that certain unit which puts you in a high cycle.
If your rep has told you that this job is a bad job then the only thing that I can tell you is don't miss any part of the job, don't argue with your boss if the line is going down because your really shouldn't have time to argue due to the fact that the job is keeping you busy and your trying to get out of the job. Just have your team leader call the union to come out and deal with the issue.
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Post by TonyV on May 10, 2011 16:16:13 GMT -5
I am one step closer to erasing this post. Gangstarick - I appreciate your post as well as your frustration. However, with an election taking place, I will not allow personal attacks during this time to sway an election.
Post all info about the subject without posting an officials name please. If you need help - ask any of the candidates. They will help you. Many like Brent and Kesssinger come on here all the time to answer questions. Posting an elected officials name in anger will just have a thread erased during this time period.
Once the election is over, all is back to normal. Let's keep the election positve please.
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Post by jefflebowski on May 10, 2011 17:11:08 GMT -5
Freeeeeeeedom. Ha, a joke even in america.
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dave
Amateur
Posts: 169
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Post by dave on May 10, 2011 17:28:38 GMT -5
I agree with brenteskridge. One thing you can do is after a time study is done by both the union and ford . You can ask that the job be put in "Kansas city". Once the job is there ford can not force the work on you and has to give you help untill the issue is resolved. For anyone that does not know what kansas city is. It is a Goverment regulated time study that the uaw and ford both agree to use incase of a conflict of a job set up. Hope this help.
BUT, remember if your doing the job without stopping the line ford see's no problem with it and will not change it. ITs up to you and you only to fight the work the rep is there to make sure the rules are being followed.
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Post by lgnikko on May 10, 2011 18:19:06 GMT -5
If you have a rep not doing his or her job why shouldn't you be able to call them out by name?
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Post by marcus on May 10, 2011 18:33:37 GMT -5
Yep I say call them out if they arnt doing there job.They dont give a Shit about us all they care about is if the line goes down.The dont care about duty cycle.
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Post by marcus on May 10, 2011 18:37:08 GMT -5
We on the line have to stick together get your counterparts phone number and talk to them to find out what is going on.The boss will lie to you about what the other shift is doing.I stop the line all the time and dont really care one bit about it. My boss blames me for the china made chicken bands not holding the driveshaft up at frame flip.They know how to fix it but wont DO IT.
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Post by ragtop69 on May 10, 2011 20:29:15 GMT -5
Remember its not fair to bring up the candidates middle name during the election, or the fact he is not anything close to what he claims to be........oh wait wrong election .
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Post by kessinger on May 10, 2011 20:51:55 GMT -5
Well the problem is, at this time of year people will name drop and dont support it with facts. I am fine with a name drop as long as they support their claim. "Several other people with 60 minute workloads" has no facts included in it. Notice he uses a name for Scott but dosen't name this 60 minute workload job or the people he claims to have spoken to. It also sounds like HE has a 60 minute workload and is running his tail off (notice he says OTHER people to). Stop running so fast Rick. Running ain't all that Gangsta.
So please gangstarick name the job. We will win a 60 minute workload every time IF someone fights it, and they try to write them up. So name the job so I can fix it or stop spreading urban myths.
Here is the truth of this 60 minute workload, either........
A. it isn't true (this is my guess but lets wait and see what the job is)
B. I have rep. out there giving out bad advice telling people to work overloaded and I will fix THEM. ( I doubt this one this is an easy win at contract time reps. love this type thing)
C. We have someone silly enough to RUN after their union rep or reps tell them "hey you have a 60 minute work load you don't have to run like that" (I doubt this one to, I have faith in our brothers and sisters)
D. There is some study somewhere in the computer that has 60 on it but no one has ever even checked to see if the study is valid or up to date because the operator has never stopped the line.
So I will await the naming of the job and we will find out which of these three catagories it falls into.
But here is the truth on standards.
WE CAN"T STOP THE LINE FOR YOU!!!!!!!!!
We CAN protect you if the job is overloaded.
We CAN even tell you when we can't protect you anymore because the study is good and you can decide what to do from there. We CAN put the job in Kansas City
We CAN even shut the plant down over standards if we can't get a job resolved.
But, we CAN'T do any of that if you choose to run your tail off when you have a 60 minute workload. Zip Zero Nada. The union does not have the right to run the business. We have the right to FIGHT for you and will gladly do so........... but that starts with YOU standing up if you are being wronged.
Please do.......please....please.......please if you have a 60 minute workload fight it. I have to get elected, do you know how great that would be for me if I shut this place down over job standards. The truth is though, it won't happen. They don't want the plant shut down for that reason so they aren't gonna to push that fight that far. And it definately won't happen if you CHOOSE to do a job with a 60 minute workload.
Here is more truth........ Some jobs at 54 minutes or under still SUCK, and can even SUCK bad. But there is no "this job still sucks" contract provision. If you had no union there would be NO job standards at all. It is far from a perfect system but it sure beats not having a system at all.
Here is the reason they aren't elected.
Sometimes they have to tell you your wrong and you have to do the work, if we can't win a greivance based on the study that is what they MUST do, if they don't you, the person fighting the job would get screwed.
Them being elected so they will tell you want to hear sounds great. But then they would just say "yep your overloaded"....... you would then fight a job based on what he told you. The company could PROVE it isn't overloaded and you just lost a big pocket full o cash cause the guy wants to get re-elected and don't wanna piss you off. Then he/she would say "your were overloaded, I don't know why they didn't win your grievance" but your still the one that got screwed.
In standards and H@S you have to have people that can't be swayed by the voters. Most people will choose to work easy over work safe. That's just true, we all have done it. SO if a safety rep. needed your vote he wouldn't try to make you work safe. He/she wouldn't be doing their job.
Hell this happens now. There is one committeeperson that will ask me a question they already know the answer to so they can say "Well I got bad news I talked to Kessinger and he said.........." And I am OK with that if they don't wanna give bad news they can give it through me, because what is important is that you get the truth even if its not what you want to hear.
Now you may not like my post, but it is a truthful one.
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Post by kessinger on May 10, 2011 21:09:08 GMT -5
I just got off the phone with Scott. He told no one they had to do a 60 minute workload. He was called out there over a job that was at 54 minutes but had high cycles on crew cabs. He told the operators that if they needed to stop the line due to multiple crew cabs to do so and the company could either fix the job or leave the operators alone but they weren't going to write anyone up over it.
Due to that, the company ended up fixing the cycle issue by taking the seat belt clip off the job. Good work by those operators.
The person that called Scott about this sometimes posts here so maybe he can add some clarity. But, then you guys would call him a suck ass......lol
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Post by mulewrong on May 12, 2011 17:52:18 GMT -5
The union does not have the right to run the business. We have the right to FIGHT for you and will gladly do so........... but that starts with YOU standing up if you are being wronged. In standards and H@S you have to have people that can't be swayed by the voters. Hey Kess, As I told you the last time we spoke, I read your post on here and I respect you for taking the time to post. I think you are stand up for that, but I don't agree with all the opinions of the reps here. One major disagreement I have..... the union doesn't run the business, and this is true, but we are partners in the business along with our salary co-workers. AND when they are interested in quantity not quality we may have to piss a few of our salary partners off and protect the customer and ourselves.... Safety Reps may not be elected...but they are appointed by the chairman and are basically at will in terms of their appointment....and a chairman can replace one Good luck in the election, like I said you are a stand up person....and on of the few candidates not running for twelve positions....gee what happens people see who's running for what and then decide what they want to run for or against ....quite a process
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Post by trinitus on May 13, 2011 11:25:35 GMT -5
I say why not drop names of people that are in office who is seeking re-election that has failed to do their job. How else will the rest of the plant know who the bad ones are? Keep in mind that even though they rotae departments, we have two to three shifts (depending on the department you are in). If a union on dayshift is bad, then how will the other shift/s know how bad they are?
I see both Kessinger and Brent Eskridge on here more than the rest. they do get crap from us but they also pass along information or at least information as they know it at the time because it does change. Both Men have answered peoles questions on here and even answered questions I was going to ask but someone else beat me to it. I do not see any problem with these two getting re-elected at all.
I also don't see any reason why Scott Eskridge won't win re-election as well. I don't always agree with him but he does seem to try to do more than anyone we ever had. He can't please us all.
With all that said, keep in mind that the jobs in trim are probably the worse they have ever been. Yes Kess there is jobs in trim that are above the 54 minute workload, not many from what I have seen but they are there. I know for a fact that on the leaf screen job, both dayshift and nightshift was fighting the jobs, and somehow dayshift people were not there and both awols people held the jobs saying it isn't my job I don't care. Now both shift's have to hold the jobs and they are a 57 or 59 minute workload. Not to mention the first two jobs on the doorline are close to a 58 or 59 minute workload. Hot weather is upon us and we need fluid to keep from dehyradtion, but if these operators don't have time to get a drink what do you think will happen?
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Post by kessinger on May 13, 2011 11:45:47 GMT -5
Ty Trinitus. Let me get past this election and I will look into the jobs you listed and advise those operators as to what I would do in their shoes and hopefully get a fix if we can. I still have to walk trim nightshift so I will talk to those operators as i go there.
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Post by brenteskridge on May 13, 2011 13:46:45 GMT -5
@tinitus. I am taking a break at this moment from campaigning for bargaining committee. Running on a couple of hours of sleep is catching up with me LOL.
My opinion on why name dropping is bad is because of this. Let's say that you and I have a discussion on an issue and I give you all the information that you have asked for. I give you the contract pages so that you can go back and read to verify what I am telling you so that if you still have an issue with my answer you at least know where I am getting my information. At the end of all that, you still think that your being done wrong so now its name dropping time. This would not be fair because for someone looking to vote for they may not or most likely will not vote for a person that is a good committeeman based off what is being said in the name dropping.
It may take awhile before enough people realize who the good ones are and who is not worth voting for.
I am running bargaining committeeman not because I think we have a bad team but because I feel that I can bring more to what we all are trying to accomplish at making this union stronger and better. The guys in house right now have done a fine job and I am proud to work with them. In this election, the ones that get voted in are going to do a great job as well. We have a great race going on and I just want to see 100% voting by everyone.
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Post by Jr on May 13, 2011 14:34:47 GMT -5
I say why not drop names of people that are in office who is seeking re-election that has failed to do their job. How else will the rest of the plant know who the bad ones are? Keep in mind that even though they rotae departments, we have two to three shifts (depending on the department you are in). If a union on dayshift is bad, then how will the other shift/s know how bad they are? The No name dropping is an easy answer. Anybody can post anything about someone hiding behind a fake name. But it is alot harder to do when everybody knows who you are. and alot of people post on here under a false or made up name Like yours.
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Post by Jr on May 13, 2011 14:36:32 GMT -5
Ty Trinitus. Let me get past this election and I will look into the jobs you listed and advise those operators as to what I would do in their shoes and hopefully get a fix if we can. I still have to walk trim nightshift so I will talk to those operators as i go there. Sorry kessinger But shouldn't the jobs come First?? You are in office Right?
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Post by marcus on May 13, 2011 21:23:55 GMT -5
Yea MAN UP people dont hide behind a false name.
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Post by JoePieper on May 13, 2011 22:42:48 GMT -5
I had a "screen name" when I first joined this forum but later decided to change it to my real name. I just felt it was the right thing to do.
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Post by kessinger on May 13, 2011 23:33:56 GMT -5
Jr. I already have people looking into the jobs, that started right after I read trinitus' post, they are not over 54 but they are getting me a copy so I can look at cycles.
If those operators feel they need help they can contact their committee person or the alternate BC. As for me personaly advising those folks as i said i would, that will have to wait til I am done or as I am going. I am burning through my personal time and vacation to try and see everyone. That is part of holding office. As I am walking people speak to me about their issues, and I address them as I go. I spoke to the day shift operators on my rounds prior to reading trinitus' post and no one mentioned anything about being overloaded to me, or I would have addressed it then. They may have mentioned it to someone else though.
As for the leaf screen job. It does not matter if some super hero flew in there and held it. If it is over a 54 minute work load it makes no difference if it was held by someone else. If you can't hold it you can't hold it, if its over 54 minutes they are not going to write you up or if they do it will not stick.
A lot of the jobs I have been asked about while i have been campaigning are jobs with high cycle times for a certain cab. We need to do a much better job of educating the membership what the cycle time is and what it means. This is where they are sticking us, holding a high cycle job can be much worse than a job at 54 minutes if the mix is bad.
I believe the operators on the door line spoke to Scott about them. If we are talking about the same jobs, he showed them that they had extremely high cycle times. Advice was offered and if that advice is followed I believe that situation will get better.
Sorry if that sounds harsh junior but every three years I basicly get no personal days. So I have to use that time to campaign. I don't get to use it to spend with my family so I am damned sure going to use it for exactly the reason I saved it for. We have good committee people covering us and they call us anytime they need advice.
This post may be rambling, sorry if it is. I have campaigned both shifts today and I need to go to sleep now.
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Post by ScottR@KTP on May 14, 2011 8:13:48 GMT -5
I had a "screen name" when I first joined this forum but later decided to change it to my real name. I just felt it was the right thing to do. But after this past week's fiasco, more and more will be hiding under false names/email addresses I would imagine.
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Post by JoePieper on May 14, 2011 11:48:51 GMT -5
Sad but true Scott.
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Post by Jr on May 14, 2011 16:55:28 GMT -5
you don't sound Harsh Kessing I didn't know you were burning personal time.
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Post by laidoff on May 14, 2011 20:55:50 GMT -5
i think its funny how people are scared to shut the line off because their shitty job is over loaded. Send a message shut it down, I rotate tony v's old job and i shut the line off all the time and i never see a stupidvisor come running over pressuring me to turn the line on. stop being a u know what and shut the line off. And by the way come out of hiding.
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Post by JoePieper on May 14, 2011 22:53:21 GMT -5
We had an overloaded job several years ago on slow Frame. At the time it was a two person job (Front Axle Deck). The guy on the hoist (me) also had to attatch the fromt driveshaft to the axel on all the 4x4s. If you got a lot of them in a row you couldn't keep up so we turned the line off constantly. One supervisor wanted me to try it HIS way and wait until the frame reached a certain point before being able to shut the line off. I knew it wouldn't work so just to piss him off I did it HIS way and ended up with MORE downtime because of it. The next day we went back to MY way and he didn't say another damn word. Had a couple of threats like "if you shut it down again your getting sent home." Guess what I did? I shut the motherf***er down again and again and again and never got written up for it. Eventually (after I was on another job) the axel line got redesigned and this particular job became a three man job. You have to fight and sometimes it can take time but eventually they will get the point and FIX IT.
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Post by dave7293 on May 14, 2011 23:48:16 GMT -5
You know Kessinger I do understand that the union can`t run the business but a lot of people don`t fight jobs because they are afraid that they will get wrote up an the discipline process will not be followed. They fear a week for first write up and then two weeks. Two write ups and out over $3,000. that they most likely will not get back even if they win a grievance.
Before you say this won`t happen just ask Bruce Hess. I was his team leader when he got hired and this kid was smart and worked his ass off and later we all made him our team leader.
We had a over loaded job that the company was trying to add work to (this was in the old trim where new trim is now) and all three shifts were fighting it and no one was holding it. When Bruce gave the job a bathroom break he did the same and did not hold it. Management wrote him up the first time ( his first RW ever) and gave him TWO! weeks off.
When he came back to work the job was still being fought and two other union brothers got RW`s with one balance of shift and the other balance of shift and a day. Bruce did what all great team leaders do and lead by example.
When he had to give that job a bathroom break Bruce did not break. He did not hold the job even know he could of ran his ass off for the 5 min`s or so and that would of been find with us but he believes in solidarity and was taken up stairs and given a RW (only his second ever) and a month off.
Now Bruce was out over $7,000. after he got back a month later the job was not held and the added work went else where. So he got with the union and filed the grievance to get his RW`s off his record and paid for the time sent home.
He got the RW`s off but guess what no money. The union kept telling him he had to get his money since the job work was never held and they took his RW`s off his records. Well it`s been almost 10 years and no money. Do you think Bruce believes in the unions ability to fight for him when they say they will???
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Post by kessinger on May 15, 2011 9:54:46 GMT -5
Dave, probably not. I can't answer to something that happened 10 years ago. I would gladly look to see what happened but that's even too far back for me to do that.
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Post by ScottR@KTP on May 15, 2011 13:59:00 GMT -5
I will never understand how our union does not hold the company to follow a punishment process...how anyone can get time off for a first offense is beyond me. What happened to the verbal, written, balance, 3 days, 1 week...and so on? When and why did the company gain the ability to punish an hourly however they choose? I am totally baffled...the ease at which people get punished at KTP is pathetic.
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Post by mulewrong on May 15, 2011 16:04:30 GMT -5
And the safety violations they (Ford) get away with..... you and I don't wear safety glasses time off, improper lockout... time off, 3382 card going to labor.... We have major outstanding safety issues in paint kitchen, dso block house, VLC and its like we'll get around to it maybe
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