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Post by jobs1stb4polarbear on Sept 20, 2011 9:43:50 GMT -5
Obama, proposed a new rule, the "Buffett Rule," which would require millionaires to pay the same rate as middle class Americans.....
Buffett, worth $50 billion, recently expressed outrage that under the American tax code, he paid just 17.4 percent of his income in federal taxes while his secretary paid double that rate at 33 percent.
....lets overlook the fact that Apparently, Buffett pays his secretary very well, as one would expect. According to the 2011 Federal Tax Rates, in order to be in the 33% tax rate your income has to be between:
Single: $174,400 to $379,000; Obama Millionaire Threshold $200,000
Joint : $212,300 to $379,150; Obama Millionaire Threshold $250,000
It is good to know that Obama could have her paying her fair share as well..............
.....BUT bottom line is.....I cannot understand how they think they can get people to not realize there is a difference between Fed Income Tax rates and Capital gains rates. But then, I realize that they can do it by just repeating the lie over and over and over. And sad to say, a good many people ARE stupid(Democrat) enough to buy it.
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Post by marcus on Sept 20, 2011 10:28:07 GMT -5
People will go for it.So sad
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Post by uknowit on Sept 20, 2011 10:49:14 GMT -5
Fight for the rich they need our help
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Post by ktpelec on Sept 20, 2011 10:54:04 GMT -5
There is a huge difference between "Federal tax" and "taxable income" and the rates differ. I do believe the mega rich need to pay more on their taxable income, but their armies of lawyers will find other ways of hiding it.
This "Buffet Rule" is only one element of the entire plan, let the Bush era cuts expire, (the ones that have created all these jobs LOL) close loop holes, and limit amounts the wealthy can claim.
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Post by jobs1stb4polarbear on Sept 20, 2011 13:14:06 GMT -5
Yes, the ignorance in the air...
The most important thing to understand is that the super rich are different from the rest of us (or at least they’re unlike me, but feel free to send me a check if you’re in that category).
Ordinary slobs like me get the overwhelming share of our income from wages and salaries. This means we are somewhat easy victims when the politicians feel like raping and plundering..... If my tax rate goes up, I don’t really have much opportunity to protect myself by altering my income.
For rich people, however, the world is vastly different...This means that they – unlike me and (presumably) you – have tremendous ability to control their money...
....For every simple idea I can envision, it goes without saying that clever lawyers, lobbyists, accountants, and financial planners can probably think of 100 ways to utilize deductions, credits, preferences, exemptions, shelters, exclusions, and loopholes. This is why class-warfare tax policy is so self-defeating.
....and here's the scary part.... all of this bull shit doesn’t even touch upon the other sure-fire way the rich can escape high taxes – and that’s to simply decide to be less productive(stop investing in the US or stop investing period). Most high-income people are hard-charging types who are investing money, building businesses, and otherwise engaging in behavior that is very good for them.....but also very good for the economy...JOBS!
... remember, we can only tax the rich's money, when they use it...we CAN NOT tax money they already have....thats already been taxed......maybe!
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Post by uknowit on Sept 20, 2011 14:43:54 GMT -5
You are just to much, their is a growing difference between the rich and middle class and you fight their propaganda battle. With your help and people like you they are sure too wipe out the middle class, you are just cutting your own throat and you will not see it until it is too late
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Post by axleman on Sept 20, 2011 15:08:02 GMT -5
 You are just to much, their is a growing difference between the rich and middle class and you fight their propaganda battle. With your help and people like you they are sure too wipe out the middle class, you are just cutting your own throat and you will not see it until it is too late WOW! Your waisting your time POLAR. They just don't want to see.
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Post by ktpelec on Sept 20, 2011 17:29:15 GMT -5
So with that kind of thinking I guess you're all for Ford in these contract talks? Why ask for a raise, just keep giving the mega rich (Ford family etc..) all the advantages and just settle for whatever is left. LOL
The tax cuts Bush enacted have not worked, and every poll shows the majority of middle class Americans think just that.
Bush tax cuts 2003...I'm still waiting on those jobs they produced! LOL
Keep drinking the Republican Kool aid.
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Post by axleman on Sept 20, 2011 19:32:05 GMT -5
For over 100 yrs the "Mega rich" Ford family has given many middle class families a way to make a decent living, I thank them for that. If you want to put up your money and start a company (and maybe lose it all), jump through all the government regulations and pay lord knows what in corporate taxes then maybe you can complain about the pay they they make. The last time I looked that was an American flag outside on the flag pole not a Soviet RED!
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Post by uknowit on Sept 20, 2011 20:42:26 GMT -5
If they can get away with paying you ten dollars a hour and put more work on you don't think they wouldn't, they would take that extra money and put it in their pocket, I am sure that would make you happy
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Post by marcus on Sept 21, 2011 3:53:41 GMT -5
If the Bush tax cuts didnt work or did work it doesnt really matter.Why should we take more from the rich?Not only did the rich get less taken from them so did the rest of america.I dont know why some of you guys want to pay more tax.
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Post by marcus on Sept 21, 2011 4:00:03 GMT -5
Major Legislation
The two major tax-cutting bills from the Bush era were the Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act (EGTRRA) of 2001, and the Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003.
These two laws cut taxes across the board for earned income, long-term capital gains and dividends. The legislation also expanded the child tax credit and made dozens of other changes and adjustments to the tax code, involving exemptions, deductions and the marriage penalty.
Tax Brackets
EGTRRA created six tax rate brackets--10%, 15%, 25%, 28%, 33% and 35%, based on income levels. If no extension is passed and signed into law, then the pre-2001 tax rates will go back into effect starting in tax year 2011. The 10% bracket would disappear, and those taxpayers would move up to the 15% bracket, which would apply to all incomes below $34,550. The other tax rates would increase to 28%, 31%, 36% and 39.6% for the highest earners making more than $379,650.
Child Tax Credit
One major provision that will expire at the end of 2010 is the child tax credit, which EGTRRA doubled from $500 to $1,000 per child. Unless Congress votes to extend the child tax credit, the maximum amount will revert back to $500 for tax year 2011, and the number of families eligible for that amount will be much less as tougher eligibility standards that existed prior to EGTRRA will go back into effect.
The maximum tax rate on long-term capital gains and qualified dividends were also reduced to 15%, with lower income filers facing a 0% tax rate. The sunset provisions would move the capital gains rate back to a maximum of 20%, and qualified dividends would resume being taxed at the regular tax rate of the filer, or as high as 39.6%.
EGTRRA also eliminated the so-called "marriage penalty" and gave a married couple filing jointly a standard deduction twice that of a single filer. Tax rates were also adjusted for joint filers to remove the penalty. These provisions are set to expire as well.
Other Expirations
Another legacy of the two tax cuts was the elimination of the phase out of the personal exemption, which was gradually eliminated over time. If no extension is passed, then the phase out will resume at incomes above $122,500.
The phase out for itemized deductions were also eliminated by the Bush tax cuts, and these will also kick back in. Some taxpayers may lose as much as 80% of their itemized deductions if their income is too high.
There is alot more than this but its not just RICH people that will pay more.
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Post by ktpelec on Sept 21, 2011 6:37:33 GMT -5
The tax threshold will be $200,000 personal and/or $250,000 family, I don't know how many middle class factory workers will fall into that category, but it won't be me.
There are many Hedge Fund managers, Speculators, and other Wall Street middle men that haven't done anything for the middle class, they haven't created any jobs, just wealth.
The emphasis is to cut spending and raise revenue, yet is doesn't seem that the Republicans want to give their share.
I'm all for cutting Entitlements and slashing Defense, but Wall Street has to give also.
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Post by marcus on Sept 21, 2011 7:07:48 GMT -5
I guess as long as its not me getting taxed more it shouldnt matter right?
If the Bush tax cut goes away its not just the rich who will pay more.
To take almost 40 percent of someones money is just unfair,that 40 turns into what maybe 50 to 60 percent of someones income after they pay the rest of there taxes and fees not just payroll.
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Post by marcus on Sept 21, 2011 7:19:59 GMT -5
Just a handfull more of obamas tax increase coming our way.Watch out small buisness owners.But dont worry guys our healthcare will still be great and not cost us anymore money.Thanks HBO
•“Breath tax”: The infamous “death tax” now has a new sibling: the $17 billion “breath tax.” The new health overhaul law requires everyone in America who breathes to have health insurance by 2014; some will get subsidies, but most will have to pay a fine if they don’t buy the health insurance required by the federal government. Last week, Internal Revenue Commissioner Douglas Shulman said that enforcement of the individual mandate will come by seizing tax refunds and “collection, if need be.”
•Taxes on medical devices: Surgical scissors, wheelchairs, intravenous bags, dental retainers and braces, CT scanners, stretchers, exam room tables, heart stents, pacemakers, surgical gloves, spineboards at every local pool, scales at a doctor’s office or health club, any diagnostic test for any disease or condition – all will be among the products and procedures subject to ObamaCare’s special $20 billion medical device tax beginning in 2013. This tax will make these medical supplies more expensive, will drive up the cost of health care and health insurance for Americans, will threaten jobs in the medical device industry, and confiscate money needed for new innovative breakthroughs.
•New Tax on Health Insurance Providers: Even though soaring health costs are the problem Americans most wanted government to solve, ObamaCare promises to drive costs even higher by instituting a new $60 billion tax on health insurers. Insurers and health plans can be expected to pass along this tax to policyholders through higher premiums. So starting in 2014, Americans will be forced to buy health insurance, and the federal government will be actively making it more expensive.
•Medicare Payroll Tax: Starting in 2013, ObamaCare increases the Medicare payroll tax for many small business owners and others earning more than $250,000 a year. This tax hike will place yet another burden on small business owners who the country needs to create jobs and lead the economy into recovery. This job-killing payroll tax is estimated to raise $86.8 billion over seven years.
•New Tax on Investment: In addition to the Medicare payroll tax hike, investment income will now be subject to a tax of 3.8% starting in 2013 for those in higher income categories. Even middle-class homeowners who realize a capital gain of $250,000 or more on the sale of their home will be hit by this Medicare tax, which will drain another $123.4 billion out of taxpayers’ pockets and into the government’s coffers over seven years.
•New Drug Tax: ObamaCare’s new tax on brand-name drugs kicks in next year and is estimated to raise $27 billion over nine years. The public can expect to have these costs passed on to them in the form of higher drug prices and higher insurance costs.
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Post by ktpelec on Sept 21, 2011 8:37:51 GMT -5
I only meant that to a huge percentage of Americans it won't matter.
Cut spending, and raise revenue, how else can we do it, I'm open for more ideas.
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Post by pmooret on Sept 21, 2011 8:58:07 GMT -5
Go to fairtax.org, they have a solution.
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Post by marcus on Sept 21, 2011 11:21:13 GMT -5
Cut spending is the answer not take more money from us.
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Post by ktpelec on Sept 21, 2011 13:27:29 GMT -5
14 trillion...just cutting spending won't do it, we had this discussion about the deficit a short while ago.
Stop throwing away billions on 2 so-called wars, cut spending, and raise revenue, even then it's a long hard uphill climb. Both sides have to give for the sake of the entire country.
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Post by pmooret on Sept 21, 2011 18:12:05 GMT -5
They could quit buying $16 muffins.
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Post by marcus on Sept 21, 2011 22:11:51 GMT -5
Spending is about to go way past the roof when Obamacare goes into effect and thats really putting it mild.He has had three years to end two of the wars we are in.Taking more of our money is not ok with me.I say cut spending as much as it takes.Thats what I would have to do in my house.
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Post by jobs1stb4polarbear on Sept 22, 2011 8:22:21 GMT -5
According to Webster's, envy is defined as "malice," and a "painful or resentful awareness of an advantage enjoyed by another, joined with a desire to possess the same advantage." The psychoanalytic understanding of envy is that it is an unconscious fantasy aimed at attacking, damaging, or destroying what is good, because of the intolerable feeling that one does not possess and control the object of goodness. As such, since it ultimately involves a destructive attack on the sources of life and goodness. Particularly envious individuals cannot tolerate the pain of not possessing and controlling the "good object," so they preemptively spoil it so that they don't have to bear the pain.
What is critical....and so perverse...about envy, is that it is not an attack on "the bad" or frustrating, but a hateful attack on what is good. As a result, the psyce of such individuals confuses what is bad and what is good, and cannot experience a sense of gratitude toward the good, the sine qua non of happiness and mental health. The envious person does not want to have a relationship with the good object, but wants to be that object. If it cannot be the object, then it attacks it(rich) to eliminate the tension.....
The way most of you think, if the middle class( I ) can't be rich, fuck them....
ENVY is.... without doubt... the underlying emotion behind the Marxist trope, "from each according to his ability; to each according to his need"..... The "enlightened" and morally bankrupt left has always believed that economic self-interest means simply voting yourself a share of the money earned by others. They wouldn't know how to create wealth if their lives depended on it..... that's why they seek power over others...they see it as the only way they can survive in the real world....but since they cannot admit that to themselves, they will seize other people's wealth with one hand...while signing the political bills that make it impossible to create the wealth on which they themselves depend.
The truth is that they deeply hate those who create the wealth they want to steal, and seek to destroy them--even though at some level, they understand they cannot survive without them.
They count on the fact that this reality never spoken of in polite society.
The envy of the postmodern progressive left is palpable. It is malignant and it consumes them. But they don't care. They have convinced themselves that they stand for things like "peace" and "freedom" and "truth"--but they have really chosen to ally themselves to the side of darkness and despair, slavery and oppression, lies and distortions; and they can no longer even appreciate when a truly magnificent achievement takes place before their very eyes(what the rich has done,and is doing for them now) unless they can claim credit for it....:
from KTPELECT eyes: "Why ask for a raise, just keep giving the mega rich (Ford family etc..)"
from AXELMAN's eyes: "For over 100 yrs the "Mega rich" Ford family has given many middle class families a way to make a decent living, I thank them for that.
.....I'm with Axel on this one....Why bite the hand that feeds you?
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Post by ktpelec on Sept 22, 2011 13:00:31 GMT -5
I used the Ford family as an example. Henry did start the company, yet stock holders have invested way more than the Ford family ever has, and the middle class has created more jobs by buying those very vehicles. See how it works? We (middle class) create those jobs when we have enough money to buy the products, yet the middle and lower class has slipped so much over the last several years they struggle while the upper class continues to widen the gap. "Job creators" is just a load of BS the Republicans continue to try and sell.
Please don't try to place labels on me or attack my character, I feel no envy or jealousy, I'm just stating my opinion on what I feel about the debt crisis. You seem to resort to doing this instead of discussing the topic.
Cut spending and raise revenue. Just doing one or the other will not come close to a 14 trillion dollar deficit.
So what are your pro-Republican feelings about the current contract talks? LOL
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Post by jobs1stb4polarbear on Sept 22, 2011 14:11:39 GMT -5
I'll be brief, on my cell......
.....
......and where does the middle class get the money to buy the products or services..?
....look, I understand the whole circle of life, when it comes to economics....I say corporations/businesses make the products and comsumers(those with jobs,...etc..) have to buy them...both can not exist with out the other...blah...blah...blah....yes, I know, there's more to it than that!
...but this circle of life(the US economy), don't really need government for it to exist(can we say limited!)...and certaintly it doesn't need stupid rules, like the "buffett rule"....
....and cutting spending raises revenue!
....and for the contract debate, Start a new tread!
...and as for labeling you.....YOU are doing fine on your own....lol
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Post by ktpelec on Sept 22, 2011 15:56:29 GMT -5
That's what these tax changes are all about, the deficit. Just cutting spending wont get close to it. The lowest rates for the wealthy in my life time have helped bring about this huge hole the country is in, and these rates need to change to help get out of it. As I stated before, the polls that have been conducted show that the majority of middle class Americans believe this.
Still no comment on the contract talks?? LOL
I think you're in the minority on this Forum. LOL
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Post by marcus on Sept 22, 2011 20:22:47 GMT -5
Why should the rich pay alot higher percent than someone making 60K a year?
Why should somebody be made to give up half there income to the goverment?
We can get out of this crap by cutting spending along,it wont happen in one year but it will happen over time.
Im for everyone paying the same percent in tax.I could care less if someone makes 250 grand and I make 50 grand he will pay 5 times more in tax than me if we are at the same percent.Thats 100 percent fair.No class war Bullcrap.
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Post by Grimace on Sept 22, 2011 20:28:35 GMT -5
Screw the politicians, it's a lemon, squeeze it...
Wealthy people do not create jobs, demand for goods creates jobs. Tax any imported goods a nickel on the doller and pay off the deficit. Wiley entrepeneurs hoping to avoid importation taxes, will create American products that will create American jobs. Flat tax, no loopholes.
Use anyone and everyone needing unemployment extensions to help with state projects requiring manual labor maybe just doing stuff like highway clean-ups to earn hours towards their extensions.
Offer low rate, possibly forgivable new business loans (*ex. as long as they file taxes for 10 years) to small businesses that are started by unemployed individuals.
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Post by ktpelec on Sept 23, 2011 7:23:13 GMT -5
I agree Marcus, the whole tax structure is a mess, but that isn't going to be discussed at this point in Congress.
The Bush tax cuts when into effect in the mid 90's, enacting the lowest rates for the wealthy in half a century. Here we are with this huge deficit now, and unemployment rates are in the double digits nationwide, proof enough for me they haven't worked for the good of the entire country, only the wealthy. I haven't had a raise in a decade, yet during that same time the top 1% have doubled their earnings. That is a travesty against the middle class American worker.
How about they get a tax break if they actually do create some real jobs? LOL
The wealthy don't need the middle class looking out for them, they have armies of lobbyists and lawyers to do that.
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Post by marcus on Sept 23, 2011 8:14:16 GMT -5
We also got cuts with the bush tax cuts.We didnt get into this deficit because of not taxing enough we got here because we spend more than we make
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Post by bo862 on Sept 23, 2011 8:24:18 GMT -5
The ideology that giving money (or not requiring that they pay their share of government expenses) to rich investors is the way to create jobs is not supported by reality. A recent example shows this is not the case. Bank of Americas announcement that they would be cutting 30,000 jobs from their payroll caused their stock price to increase. If anything, this would suggest that investors encourage companies to reduce jobs (this is obviously as wrong as your statement) in order to provide a better return for their investment. Another sign showing this idea does not match reality, is that the biggest tax cuts in 2001 and 2003 led to virtually no change in unemployment. The beginning unemployment 2003 was around 4 -5%; currently we are at what 9+%? You really need to start finding some sort of facts, observable behavior, reason or logic when trying to form your view of the world.
If the rich/investors/businesses do not have a demand for a product or service they will not create jobs out of the kindness of their own hearts. That money will be used to speculate on other investments until demand is created. Did this investment into BoA, or Buffett’s $5 billion, create jobs? No, the money will be used to keep the lights on or give bigger bonuses to executives.
From jobs1st
“....and here's the scary part.... all of this bull shit doesn’t even touch upon the other sure-fire way the rich can escape high taxes – and that’s to simply decide to be less productive(stop investing in the US or stop investing period). Most high-income people are hard-charging types who are investing money, building businesses, and otherwise engaging in behavior that is very good for them.....but also very good for the economy...JOBS!”
This statement is ludicrous. No human with a functioning brain will give up earning 6 figures or more a year because their taxes have been increased. That would be one expensive tantrum.
The whole post on envy is equally absurd. The rich (or at least some) are complaining that it is unfair for their millions to be taxed because they are “special.” It has nothing to do with envy; it has everything to do with being railroaded by social elite that is run amok in our political system.
Again from jobs1st
“they can no longer even appreciate when a truly magnificent achievement takes place before their very eyes(what the rich has done,and is doing for them now)”
The rich have influenced the political system enough to remove the legislation that prevented a repeat of the great depression. Once freed from this “government bondage,” they proceeded to create industries they knew the government would not allow them to fail (Too Big Too Fail), and caused the second worst (so far) economic crises we have seen… and you call it “ a truly magnificent achievement?! At this point it appears you have lost your mind.
About the kind rich ford family giving us good jobs. It was Americans fighting the greed of corporations that provided us a middle class life style, a safe work environment with fair wages and benefits… yet you want to thank the people responsible for shooting them. This is a pathetic statement and disrespectful not just to the hundreds/thousands that died at the hands of the government and corporations, but also to every American that stood up for workers in order for us to have the right to protect ourselves and our families’ well-being.
If you are playing suck up to everyone that “gave” us something, go ahead and paddle across the Atlantic and kiss up to the brits for “giving” us our freedom.
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