|
|
Post by driveshaftgrunt on Sept 6, 2012 13:14:05 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by cal50 on Sept 6, 2012 18:12:51 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by driveshaftgrunt on Sept 7, 2012 7:50:33 GMT -5
abcnewsradioonline.com/storage/news-images/030912_JobGrowthChartWhiteHouse.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1331326698886.....because of a recession that started months before he entered office...... Honestly guys, the fact that some of you hammer the man on numbers that he inherited is just nuts. It will take a looooooong time to get all the jobs back lost during a recession that bottomed out at 8.9% of GDP. There is NO historical example, short of the Great Depression, with numbers that bad. None. And you do understand that one problem with the jobs numbers is that PRIVATE sector growth has been pretty good. Its PUBLIC numbers that have remained a drag........you know, cutting govt. and stuff. PUBLIC sector jobs, govt. jobs, continue to decline, while private sector growth is continuing to pick up. Revised numbers for July hit 141,000, and the just reported jobs number in August is 96,000. A pretty big disappointment, yet roughly around the average for a Republican president.
|
|
|
|
Post by driveshaftgrunt on Sept 7, 2012 11:14:28 GMT -5
mjperry.blogspot.com/2012/09/largest-contraction-of-govt-jobs-since.htmlAGAIN, its the public sector (govt. jobs) that's causing the weakness in the job market. If you're for "smaller govt." this is what you get. I'm not making a value judgement, but look at the numbers. The private sector hiring pace is actually good, but the public job losses are KILLING the overall numbers.
|
|
|
|
Post by bo862 on Sept 8, 2012 0:14:22 GMT -5
Things like facts, data and reality are pretty much irrelevant to republicans/tea party. All that matters is that the world is organized to match their ideological beliefs. The only thing in their way now is obama...so anything goes if it will help remove him.
|
|
|
|
Post by lapwasktp on Sept 8, 2012 3:52:16 GMT -5
OK history lesson. FORD motor company is in Kentucky for a number of reason's .. One of the Main reason however is a CHEAPER industrial energy.. ** COAL ** .. used by LG & E to provide energy to us... Our current President and his EPA is trying to kill Coal and thus kill LG & E's ability to provide a CHEAPER energy to it's Industral customers (Ford)... Kentucky is and has always been a Coal state.. Give big ears another 4 years and see if Ford sticks around... Todays market dictates where cars and trucks are made.. The margin of cost verse profit have never been this tight.. It is all about the $$money, don't fool yourself...
|
|
|
|
Post by peacebwu on Sept 8, 2012 14:39:06 GMT -5
Lapwasktp, You are right, it is about the money. Have you forgot? Ford was going to leave until you guys gave them all that money. We have one government with two heads, the only differences between the two are gay right, pro choice and abortion. I have always voted demo but I'm starting to see the light!! Both parties portrays an image in the media as being sooo different but really! are they? The middle class pays for the rich and lazy...And I'm not talking about poor people because we should always help the poor.
I look at how both vote in the house and senate and not what they say nor do I listen to what the media says anymore. For example, our jobs killer in the US, NAFTA...It began with Reagan, signed and ratified by legislatures of the three countries on George H.W watch and passed into law by Clinton. Our government has gotten away from governing due to special interest groups and huge donations to win elections. The world believes we should vote for the lesser of two evils but as a Christian why should I vote for anybody I consider evil?
It makes me wonder, are we all fool?
|
|
|
|
Post by cal50 on Sept 9, 2012 13:40:31 GMT -5
OK history lesson. FORD motor company is in Kentucky for a number of reason's .. One of the Main reason however is a CHEAPER industrial energy.. ** COAL ** .. used by LG & E to provide energy to us... Our current President and his EPA is trying to kill Coal and thus kill LG & E's ability to provide a CHEAPER energy to it's Industral customers (Ford)... Kentucky is and has always been a Coal state.. Give big ears another 4 years and see if Ford sticks around... Todays market dictates where cars and trucks are made.. The margin of cost verse profit have never been this tight.. It is all about the $$money, don't fool yourself... Congrats, you get it. Those of us that work in industry especially the auto industry and support Obama have to be brain damaged. Higher energy costs will not help any manufacturing environment and Obama and his "green" energy beliefs is not good for any domestic manufacturing. Maybe Ford will put a wind mill on top of each plant? Lol! Since the bulk of the nations energy comes from coal and Obama had / has planned carbon credits (taxes) for green house gas emitters it will not only hurt industry and pass the cost along to the consumer it will cost all of us more at home as well. Dumbo had big ears and was funny. Noting funny about Obama and yes, hopefully he joins the ranks of the unemployed as well. |
|
|
|
Post by driveshaftgrunt on Sept 9, 2012 19:20:00 GMT -5
Coal is on the way out, at least as the major source for electrical power generation. Natural gas surpassed coal, for the first time, this year in electrical generation. Plenty written about this. Mark J Perry's blog has been all over the Natural Gas Miracle that is occurring in this country. Look into it, its the single most under-reported story I can ever remember. Coal is dirty, NG is much, much cleaner, cheaper to produce and we have HUGE sources...... mjperry.blogspot.com/2012/08/eia-increases-estimates-of-us-energy.htmlCoal is on the way out........or at least on the way to India and China. NG is about to take over. Just reading about the reserves in Ohio, Penn, and South Dakota will make you TOTALLY revise the way you think about energy in this country. We're at the beginning of an energy revolution that could just move us off our foreign dependency. |
|
|
|
Post by bo862 on Sept 15, 2012 10:48:12 GMT -5
Any increase in coal prices will cause an increase nationwide. As long as it is a national standard, it will not benefit ford to move to another state due to energy prices. As for moving to another country, ford would have done that when the gap in living standards was bigger. The standard of living in china and India continues to increase while the average wage of non-management workers in the u.s. has dropped.
What people "get" from the fossil fuel industry is any excuse not to make changes that will save us money, in the long run, at their expense. You can't blame an industry for tying to protect its profits - unless their actions are risking the health and lives of people. Coal is on the way out, and in the long run society will be better off.
|
|
|
|
Post by fordworker95 on Sept 17, 2012 0:58:33 GMT -5
Imagine all the trucks running parts for FORD,if those trucks were converted to natural gas,the use of diesel would be less and therefore drop in price,perhaps if diesel fuel cost less u might sell more f250,350 and on,also if we have large reserves of natural gas ,all commercial and govt.vehicles could be converted and reduce our dependence on foreign oil.Just makes sense to me,but I don't think the big oil companies want that,so they lobby congress and get what they want from BOEHNOR and MCCONNELL content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2012/09/16/natural-gas-vehicles-second-chance/70000444/1#.UFa8yI1lS3o |
|
|
|
Post by ChrisV on Sept 17, 2012 17:28:47 GMT -5
You guys should really look at the Koch brothers.
They control most of the energy production in this country, gas, oil and COAL. They sponsor most Republicans and Tea Party candidates, because they dont really care about anything except eliminating the middle class and Unions. They are the ones behind the millions of dollars for the Minnesota and Indiana right to work for less legislations.
|
|
|
|
Post by bo862 on Sept 18, 2012 7:11:38 GMT -5
Absolutely
So far the koch brothers have spent over 120 million just on ads to persuade public opinion during campaign season. That does not include what they spent on their propaganda machines (think-tanks: they created and fund several) in the recent past. These propaganda machines have claimed to be so effective that they are responsible for turning public opinion against climate change despite overwhelming evidence provided by scientists.
If you doubt their influence, consider the republicans who accepted the scientific explanation on the climate, and later fell silent like Mc cain or reversed their position like Gingrich and Romney in order to not lose their chance for election.
The ability for a couple to use their $ freedom of speech $ to influence politics on this scale is unacceptable.
|
|
|
|
Post by cal50 on Sept 18, 2012 11:35:25 GMT -5
Absolutely So far the koch brothers have spent over 120 million just on ads to persuade public opinion during campaign season. That does not include what they spent on their propaganda machines (think-tanks: they created and fund several) in the recent past. These propaganda machines have claimed to be so effective that they are responsible for turning public opinion against climate change despite overwhelming evidence provided by scientists. If you doubt their influence, consider the republicans who accepted the scientific explanation on the climate, and later fell silent like Mc cain or reversed their position like Gingrich and Romney in order to not lose their chance for election. The ability for a couple to use their $ freedom of speech $ to influence politics on this scale is unacceptable. Look up George Soros who has spent over 400 million to promote his liberal message and views. tinyurl.com/6mrqqu5Pot meet Mr.Kettle |
|
|
|
Post by bo862 on Sept 19, 2012 13:44:40 GMT -5
What you fail to understand or do not care is that this money represents manipulation through propaganda. They are not throwing hundreds of millions around because it is the right thing to do. They are doing it because they know if they are successful it will have huge payoffs.
Before you hop on the $freedom of speech& argument, hitler and the nazis used the same tactics to motivate the masses for their political gain; instead of making the extinction of a people their main focus they are using it to get richer at everyone elses expense.
|
|
|
|
Post by cal50 on Sept 19, 2012 14:50:13 GMT -5
What you fail to understand or do not care is that this money represents manipulation through propaganda. They are not throwing hundreds of millions around because it is the right thing to do. They are doing it because they know if they are successful it will have huge payoffs. Before you hop on the $freedom of speech& argument, hitler and the nazis used the same tactics to motivate the masses for their political gain; instead of making the extinction of a people their main focus they are using it to get richer at everyone elses expense. Both sides of your brain should arrange a meeting sometime~ SO if we use your numbers and the Koch brothers spend 120 million Vs Soros spending 400 million who is more guilty of manipulation or expects a greater return ? Hitler? Do you REALLY want to bring Hitler into this? Maybe you can expound on how Hitler has anything to do with Soros or the Koch brothers. I am a fan of none of them and they are exercising their right to free speech and spending their money how they want. |
|
|
|
Post by jobs1stb4polarbear on Sept 19, 2012 15:36:01 GMT -5
Yes, finally at my computer to actually read some BS...
Wow!
Good luck Cal50...
They can disagree with any point you make. Any point.The issue is the depth of their logic and usually it takes far longer to get to its root(2009/unemployment is high, there logic"well public sector is doing fine(stimulus).....2012/unemplyment is still high"well private sector is doing fine=small government), than is worthy to partake in a conversation (sometimes they are earnest - and they learn something if you get to its root, but many times they are angry trolls). That is where the drive by Trolls can have so much potency.... They make a counter-points that seem to have weight (when in fact they are here to simply argue with a conservative), but if you pursue the conversation further down their logic path, they start to lose interest or divert your attention to trivial nonsequitors in your statements. (Hitler)
One way to know if you have someone arguing for arguments sake (using the tool of Moral Relativity) is to make several general statements of obvious general convention that many conservatives and liberals agree with and see if s(he) disagrees.(both Rich Democrats and Republicans spend millions=freedom) If they continue to disagree and those random conventions, you are faced with someone who just wants to word-fight.
Checkmate.
Their point of view is thus trivialized and you can set them on 'ignore'. why waste your time spinning your wheels. Sophism for its own sake is boring and life is short.
|
|
|
|
Post by driveshaftgrunt on Sept 19, 2012 16:25:46 GMT -5
jobsb4bears set me on "ignore" because I pointed out that he couldn't pass a basic 201 level macro-economics course, I guess........lol.
Pointing out that you don't know/or understand basic, easy to look up, BEA, CBO, or StLouis fed data doesn't make me a troll.......
I'll try one last time. If private sector job growth is decent by any measure, and public sector job growth is actually negative......then the drag on the employment numbers is the loss of govt. jobs. The unemployment number remains stubbornly high because of the total loss of jobs during the recession, and the dampening effect of what I stated above. Total population in workforce numbers has been trending down for over a decade, its not new. Its basic math. It's also what conservatives want, smaller govt. (fewer public jobs) and more robust private growth. That's not picking a fight or arguing for the sake of argument. That's a logical representation of easy to understand data..........
If you weren't referring to me jobs-bears, I apologize. But I feel that you are...........
|
|
|
|
Post by jobs1stb4polarbear on Sept 19, 2012 18:05:14 GMT -5
...still have a hard on to see my college transrcipts don't you? Thank you for elevating it to 201 level, it use to be 101 macro...
|
|
|
|
Post by bo862 on Sept 19, 2012 19:27:49 GMT -5
Looks like you're taking pointers from jobs, if someone doesn't agree with your point call them names or try to belittle them, but hey lets nit get sidetracked again
The major issue is that they are using media to feed us garbage. Instead of going to a news source and being reasonably informed. Instead we are stuck with having to sort out the propaganda from actual news. I'm going to say this as plainly as i can: it does not matter which side, they are both wrong and they need to be stopped.
Hitler was a master of propaganda. He is an example how far peoples viewpoint can be influenced through controlled propaganda. The same thing is happening to the American public. (Disclaimer: i am in no way insinuating the republican, conservative, tea party, libertarian or any other group related to the right to have committed, seek to, or desire to commit the same atrocities as hitler.) They are using the same tools to influence public thought. We can discuss the free speech later im out of time.
|
|
|
|
Post by cal50 on Sept 19, 2012 20:10:17 GMT -5
Looks like you're taking pointers from jobs, if someone doesn't agree with your point call them names or try to belittle them, but hey lets nit get sidetracked again The major issue is that they are using media to feed us garbage. Instead of going to a news source and being reasonably informed. Instead we are stuck with having to sort out the propaganda from actual news. I'm going to say this as plainly as i can: it does not matter which side, they are both wrong and they need to be stopped. Hitler was a master of propaganda. He is an example how far peoples viewpoint can be influenced through controlled propaganda. The same thing is happening to the American public. (Disclaimer: i am in no way insinuating the republican, conservative, tea party, libertarian or any other group related to the right to have committed, seek to, or desire to commit the same atrocities as hitler.) They are using the same tools to influence public thought. We can discuss the free speech later im out of time. You missed the point so let me reiterate~ You are speaking out of both sides of your mouth. In one example you slam the Koch brothers for trying to influence people by spending money yet a liberal like Soros does it to a larger scale and not a peep ? Its as if the two sides or your mouth or brain and not in sync. If its bad its bad, not selectively. Hitler was a dictator and said or did what he had to to gain power. Once in power like other dictators he stayed there until death or a coup da ta could have been performed. The USA is not a dictator ship but run by elections. I feel most of the voting public is really too stupid to make informed decisions. A LOT of these elections are heavily influenced by money from ALL angles. The other part of the problem is people that are really dumb and party line vote. Unions blindly supporting ANY democrat, Democrats and republicans that party line vote. Blacks voting for a black candidate, woman voting for a woman candidate or people in a state supporting their person becasue they are from that state (Newt). All of these people are guilty of putting emotion or preference over being honest and objective who is bust suited for the job regardless of party, gender , sex, etc. |
|
|
|
Post by bo862 on Sept 20, 2012 5:35:50 GMT -5
Did someone mention something about ad hominem, sophistry using fly-by trolls...
Welcome to the conversation jobs1st! And if you don't return to this one we will see you in the next post.
Cal
It s seems you have chosen to use the online version of selective hearing. In my post I stated "they are both wrong and need to be stopped". Until you stated their contributions I was unaware of it; so I did not know to bring it up.
The connection of hitler with this post is the effectiveness of propaganda and his use of it. Unfortunately, you say the word hitler and you never know where the conversation will go.
Speaking of "depth of logic," I'm guessing your belief that "most of the voting public are too stupid to make informed decisions" is the root of your argument on this post. If this is the case, it is understandable why you are ok with massive funding from "intelligent" people telling us what to think. The biggest problem with your opinion is that most public are not well informed, because of the amount of misinformation from propaganda. Therefore until they are well informed we will not be able to determine if they are too stupid to make good decisions.
My suggestion its to remove the propaganda machines from people like soros (<--- see I said soros, right there) and the kochs to see, once and for all, if you are correct that people are too stupid to take part in their own governance.
How about it, give democracy (atleast a closer version) a chance?
|
|
|
|
Post by ktpelec on Sept 20, 2012 7:13:36 GMT -5
...still have a hard on to see my college transrcipts don't you? Thank you for elevating it to 201 level, it use to be 101 macro... Come on Scott, quit using the "Polar' alias, most on here know its you..... |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2012 19:47:35 GMT -5
Absolutely So far the koch brothers have spent over 120 million just on ads to persuade public opinion during campaign season. That does not include what they spent on their propaganda machines (think-tanks: they created and fund several) in the recent past. These propaganda machines have claimed to be so effective that they are responsible for turning public opinion against climate change despite overwhelming evidence provided by scientists. If you doubt their influence, consider the republicans who accepted the scientific explanation on the climate, and later fell silent like Mc cain or reversed their position like Gingrich and Romney in order to not lose their chance for election. The ability for a couple to use their $ freedom of speech $ to influence politics on this scale is unacceptable. Look up George Soros who has spent over 400 million to promote his liberal message and views. tinyurl.com/6mrqqu5Pot meet Mr.Kettle LOGIC: Liberals dont understand it!  |
|
