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Post by saugerman on Nov 12, 2014 16:23:22 GMT -5
lap65 never said all tier1 got it in 90days.reread please.I said most. Love how u people read a reply and see one thing u don't like and twist the shit all around to benefit your way of thought. Get over yourselves. As far as the quit comment above by whoever u are. LOL. Funny. Your probably a tier1 by ur language. We tier2 already make a shit rate.if the uaw is voted out and we all lose our benefits.your gonna hurt worse than us.we already hurting.so thanks for ur concerns. And to the comment about ktp new hires not bitching. Their not bitching becausing their being paid to keep their mouth shut. Who would complain about 50+ hours every week.you can get by on that.even at my shit rate yeppers i am glad i don't work next to your whinning ass...whew....QUIT if it's too much for you |
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Post by ihatemyjob on Nov 12, 2014 18:04:49 GMT -5
The only reason we don't still work 50 hrs and more per week is because we gave all you new hires what you have now. Not only have we not gotten a raise in 8 years, but we gave up 10 hrs pay per week. And if it wasn't for us giving up all that then there wouldn't be a C crew for all you new hires.
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Post by justaworker on Nov 12, 2014 18:18:40 GMT -5
The only reason we don't still work 50 hrs and more per week is because we gave all you new hires what you have now. Not only have we not gotten a raise in 8 years, but we gave up 10 hrs pay per week. And if it wasn't for us giving up all that then there wouldn't be a C crew for all you new hires. That's what many of the newer hires don't understand. We didn't give concessions to screw them... We screwed ourselves, which in turn created the jobs they have. Seems like the vocal minority is very ungrateful. |
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Post by wildcats34 on Nov 12, 2014 18:51:02 GMT -5
Yeah you all really got screwed in the deal. Next time dont be so generous!! Need to stay off the koolaide brother.
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Post by wildcats34 on Nov 12, 2014 19:00:22 GMT -5
You all past real concessions on to all future hires without making real diffacult sacrifices for yourselves.
Not saying it was all rosy for you, but still making almost $30 an hour right? Still real good insurance at no cost right? Still a pension right?
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Post by justaworker on Nov 12, 2014 19:04:21 GMT -5
Yeah you all really got screwed in the deal. Next time dont be so generous!! Need to stay off the koolaide brother. Was never done to be generous to you. Just a fact that screwing ourselves, created your job.You seem to be a perfect example of which we speak. And by the way, you have no idea the sacrifices we made. You look stupid for even commenting on it. |
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Post by wildcats34 on Nov 12, 2014 19:06:42 GMT -5
Justaworker I will accept ungrateful. You hit the nail on the head with that. I guess for me feeling that way comes from trying to get hired on since 98, and when I finally do get hired its no longer a very desirable job to have like it has been for the last 50+ years.
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Post by justaworker on Nov 12, 2014 19:08:46 GMT -5
You all past real concessions on to all future hires without making real diffacult sacrifices for yourselves. Not saying it was all rosy for you, but still making almost $30 an hour right? Still real good insurance at no cost right? Still a pension right? Yeah, I knew all the pay and benefits when I decided to accept the job offer here. It's very unfortunate that nobody ever informed you. |
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Post by justaworker on Nov 12, 2014 19:10:22 GMT -5
Justaworker I will accept ungrateful. You hit the nail on the head with that. I guess for me feeling that way comes from trying to get hired on since 98, and when I finally do get hired its no longer a very desirable job to have like it has been for the last 50+ years. I know man... I know. We have to bury all that shit and make this place better for everybody. I honestly don't see two tier ever going away, but I do see real nice raises in your future. |
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Post by wildcats34 on Nov 12, 2014 19:11:12 GMT -5
I dont care about looking stupid or not. Wont be the first time and probably wont be the last. You made sacrifices because ford ran there business into the dirt. And iuaw screwed you all every step of the way.
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Post by wildcats34 on Nov 12, 2014 19:13:46 GMT -5
Hey I hope everybody gets what they want out of this next contract. Then maybe we can be united like the union has been for the majority of it existence.
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Post by justaworker on Nov 12, 2014 20:23:45 GMT -5
The only reason we don't still work 50 hrs and more per week is because we gave all you new hires what you have now. Not only have we not gotten a raise in 8 years, but we gave up 10 hrs pay per week. And if it wasn't for us giving up all that then there wouldn't be a C crew for all you new hires. That's something people are not realizing. The reason we have 3 crews, is because one of them is low cost. If we all made legacy top out pay, there would be no low cost crew. Ford would just work 2 shifts here. We used to work Monday - Friday, 10.0 every night. Then every other Saturday. With a faster line speed, and tag relief we made more vehicles then than we do now. Without those low wages, there would not be a 1,500 person c crew. Just some facts to chew on. |
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Post by wildcats34 on Nov 12, 2014 20:46:04 GMT -5
Do you know that to be fact? If everybody is legacy only two crews. Im not saying your wrong, but from a business stand point that makes no sense. To run an assembly plant at only 66 percent of its capacity is a plan ford did before the recession. Articles ive read indicate that's one of there mistakes was having too many assembly plants running at about half capacity. Thats the reason for the retooled plants to add a number of different vehicles running down the line so that each plant can run close to 100 percent capacity. I believe all of fords plants in north america are close to 3 crews. Its hard to believe that if there was all legacy pay they still couldn't turn a strong profit on the escapes.
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Post by wildcats34 on Nov 12, 2014 20:53:21 GMT -5
Ford overestimated the value of two tier wages helping the company out of a recession and the bottom line profits there enjoying now. Different business practices and a whole lot better product form about 07 to current in my opinion has ford making the billions theyre making. Not saying it didn't help.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2014 20:55:32 GMT -5
Do you know that to be fact? If everybody is legacy only two crews. Im not saying your wrong, but from a business stand point that makes no sense. To run an assembly plant at only 66 percent of its capacity is a plan ford did before the recession. Articles ive read indicate that's one of there mistakes was having too many assembly plants running at about half capacity. Thats the reason for the retooled plants to add a number of different vehicles running down the line so that each plant can run close to 100 percent capacity. I believe all of fords plants in north america are close to 3 crews. Its hard to believe that if there was all legacy pay they still couldn't turn a strong profit on the escapes. Legacy + Retirees = shit ton of $$ Ford brought 2nd tier in only for savings, taking a pagebook from Whacky Jack of GE and his 2 tier stradegy. |
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Post by wildcats34 on Nov 12, 2014 21:06:02 GMT -5
Yeah im not sure how ford got the uaw to take over the pensions. I know ford wants to wash there hands of those. Huge liability for the company. Could care less though. Businesses and corporations across the nation are trying to get rid of pensions as fast as they can.
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Post by justaworker on Nov 12, 2014 21:59:10 GMT -5
Yeah im not sure how ford got the uaw to take over the pensions. I know ford wants to wash there hands of those. Huge liability for the company. Could care less though. Businesses and corporations across the nation are trying to get rid of pensions as fast as they can. Pensions are still paid by Ford. Union took over retirees health care. As far as plant capacity, running two shifts 50 hours every week and running one shift every weekend is way, way more than 66% capacity. Honestly, we were building more cars on two shifts then... Than we are now. Two tier and 3 Crews was a way for ford to build cars cheap by not giving us so many hours. |
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Post by ihatemyjob on Nov 12, 2014 22:07:56 GMT -5
And new hires better hope the industry doesn't go in the shitter again anytime soon because there is no room to trim the fat now. Back then we could cut overtime back to meet demand of cut overtime out completely if needed. That luxury isn't there now. If sales fall through floor and the cars aren't needed then layoffs is the first step because there's no overtime to cut out.
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Post by lap65 on Nov 12, 2014 22:52:25 GMT -5
Do you know that to be fact? If everybody is legacy only two crews. Im not saying your wrong, but from a business stand point that makes no sense. To run an assembly plant at only 66 percent of its capacity is a plan ford did before the recession. Articles ive read indicate that's one of there mistakes was having too many assembly plants running at about half capacity. Thats the reason for the retooled plants to add a number of different vehicles running down the line so that each plant can run close to 100 percent capacity. I believe all of fords plants in north america are close to 3 crews. Its hard to believe that if there was all legacy pay they still couldn't turn a strong profit on the escapes. Yep its a fact, we were running 90 jph vs 70 something now. Just rounding it off 5 10 hr days on 2 shifts is 9000 jobs a week. 5 10 hr days now at 70 is 7000 + sat/sun c crew makes 8400. Those are just round numbers but we didnt shut down for break either, we relieved for break. So it seems to me that the company is actually paying more for less. We have a whole extra shift but we are putting out less vehicles per week. |
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Post by ihatemyjob on Nov 12, 2014 23:15:39 GMT -5
Do you know that to be fact? If everybody is legacy only two crews. Im not saying your wrong, but from a business stand point that makes no sense. To run an assembly plant at only 66 percent of its capacity is a plan ford did before the recession. Articles ive read indicate that's one of there mistakes was having too many assembly plants running at about half capacity. Thats the reason for the retooled plants to add a number of different vehicles running down the line so that each plant can run close to 100 percent capacity. I believe all of fords plants in north america are close to 3 crews. Its hard to believe that if there was all legacy pay they still couldn't turn a strong profit on the escapes. Yep its a fact, we were running 90 jph vs 70 something now. Just rounding it off 5 10 hr days on 2 shifts is 9000 jobs a week. 5 10 hr days now at 70 is 7000 + sat/sun c crew makes 8400. Those are just round numbers but we didnt shut down for break either, we relieved for break. So it seems to me that the company is actually paying more for less. We have a whole extra shift but we are putting out less vehicles per week. 100% right. We would roll over rotation number from 9999 back to zero about 4 hrs before end of shift every Friday night. |
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Post by wildcats34 on Nov 13, 2014 4:56:21 GMT -5
My mistake! Can the escape be built at 90 jph? Maybe its not possible to build 90 jph on this vehicle. I dont know?
Not saying I want to go at that pace. But if we were building the old explorer wouldn't ford want a couple more vehicles on top of that to run around the clock like where doing now. Before the retool how many different vehicles could you all build?
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Post by justaworker on Nov 13, 2014 5:47:50 GMT -5
My mistake! Can the escape be built at 90 jph? Maybe its not possible to build 90 jph on this vehicle. I dont know? Not saying I want to go at that pace. But if we were building the old explorer wouldn't ford want a couple more vehicles on top of that to run around the clock like where doing now. Before the retool how many different vehicles could you all build? Short answers to your questions. Yes Not necessarily, depends on demand We built more different vehicles before, than we do now. |
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Post by whiskerfish1 on Nov 13, 2014 7:04:05 GMT -5
First of all I am a tier 2 myself. wildcats34 be grateful for what we have now. Pay respect to what was given so we may have this job. There are other jobs out there if you are not pleased with where you work. I personally am a 20 year U.A.W employee and I fully understand what these senior employees are saying. I respectfully ask how long have you been union?
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Post by lap65 on Nov 13, 2014 9:02:30 GMT -5
We built explorer, ranger, Mazda Navajo, mercury mountaineer
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Post by Ex-metalman on Nov 13, 2014 9:03:04 GMT -5
Still don't see how anyone can get on here and bitch about THEIR job.You knew all this coming in,why did you take it?You knew that other workers made more,had insurance,had a pension,but still you said yes?  ?No ones fault but your own,go back to where you worked before or shut the fuck up and do your job.What did you think was going to happen when you hired in?Older employees pay being reduced to what you all make?Or somehow you will get a raise to what we make?Good luck we cant even get a raise!!!At least on the last contract the entry level was raised,I wouldn't even of done that.You will have your time..in the future...way in the future.Good luck.PS if the new people are like the ones we have at KTP I would fire half of their sorry asses.Late to work,late coming back from break,5 piss breaks a day.etc..Terrible work ethic,must be the age difference...I been here 20 yrs and I still don't like being late or coming back 30 secs late from break.Bunch of ungreatful cry babies. |
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Post by wildcats34 on Nov 13, 2014 11:47:11 GMT -5
Whisker, not here to show respect or to be thankful of a job. Im happy i have a job! Ford wants warm bodies I just happen to be one of them. Im here to get everything I can out of ford (equal pay equal work). There going to use me until im broken down and no use and then spit me to the side.
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Post by wildcats34 on Nov 13, 2014 11:54:15 GMT -5
Ex-metalman no need to cuss. If you dont like what im saying get off this thread and do something else. Referring to if you dont like it go back where you came from. Im going to after the contract. Waiting to see if there are enough improvements to pay and benefits package.
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Post by ihatemyjob on Nov 13, 2014 12:25:53 GMT -5
Problem with building more different models is a big difference between now and then. There are more parts on these vehicles now and there is limited space to store stock. Back then there wasn't a million different color combinations on interior trims. So even though the line is capable of running different models, it's not necessarily something that can be done because of the overload of stock. 2 tier is a cheaper way of building cars. If Ford ever has to get rid of 2 tier they will do it at the cost of sacrificing jobs. It will be cheaper for them to have fewer people and run more overtime with faster line speeds.
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Post by wildcats34 on Nov 13, 2014 12:56:54 GMT -5
Obviously two tier saves ford money. No arguing that. But I think Ford's advantage and cost savings have two tier is way over flaited. If im wrong somebody show me the number that ford couldnt run three cres at legacy pay. I dont see there margin for profit that small for every vehicle. I meen we are talking about them making billions last year amd billions this year. Isnt it around 40 billion plus on operating cash? Doing away with two tier is more than doable financially.
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Post by Ex-metalman on Nov 13, 2014 13:55:01 GMT -5
No cussing?are you serious?You are new aren't you ??Haha
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?No ones fault but your own,go back to where you worked before or shut the fuck up and do your job.What did you think was going to happen when you hired in?Older employees pay being reduced to what you all make?Or somehow you will get a raise to what we make?Good luck we cant even get a raise!!!At least on the last contract the entry level was raised,I wouldn't even of done that.You will have your time..in the future...way in the future.Good luck.PS if the new people are like the ones we have at KTP I would fire half of their sorry asses.Late to work,late coming back from break,5 piss breaks a day.etc..Terrible work ethic,must be the age difference...I been here 20 yrs and I still don't like being late or coming back 30 secs late from break.Bunch of ungreatful cry babies.