Question For Brian Kessinger

[30yearpace]

My question is, are these statements below true? I pulled these statements from the LAP forums



Jan 26, 2010, 6:15pm, madman wrote:Herb thanks for clearing this crap up,I have s ome questions. 1. If I get called to go anywhere out of zone can I bump someone with less seniority at Ktp? 2. Does voluntarily be asked to go to chicago qualifiy bumping someone or does it have to be a case that would cause me to loose benefits? thanks



1) Yes, if you get forced to make a decision, to have to go out of Zone. Then you will have three options. Accept, Decline and loose pay and benefits, Decline and roll to KTP, if you have the seniority on someone currently working. Then the KTP person will have only two decisions above.
2) You have to be forced to choose, to bump

Herb BC


Post from Elmer:

When LAP shutdown for retool all of you will be classified as ILO, You could be surveyed for Chicago if you turn it down you will lose your pay and benefits. If you have more seniority then a worker at KTP you could roll him, then he would have to go.

Now as far as them surveying you to go you we wont know until the last minute it depends on how many people volunteer to go.

But you will be classified as ILO and anyone who says different is lying to you.

[ScottR@KTP]

I don't think Kessinger or anyone has the answers yet. There will be some big changes in the future. Ford changed the way our ILO works now with no gen pool. When someone on ILO is asked to go out of zone, if there is someone in zone working...they can bump them. That is FACT. The youngest people at KTP should be very worried about losing their job until LAP is retooled.

[30yearpace]

I've tried warning people about this and everyone keeps saying at KTP that: "If KTP isnt their home plant they can't bump anyone"

If no one has the answers yet, Herb should not be posting this info if it isn't correct.

[ScottR@KTP]

The contract states "if someone on ILO is asked to transfer OUT OF ZONE and someone in THEIR ZONE is working with less seniority, they can bump them"...that's the truth and it will be used this year as soon as Chicago needs people. I'm hearing starting in July they may start surveying the ILOs...no one knows exact date yet.
What are the options for the person bumped from KTP? I assume they fill the same spot as the person bumping them...they are forced to transfer...if they don't want to go, they lose all their benefits immediately but have recall rights to LAP or KTP should an opening be available.

[TonyV]

Herb is correct as far as the language in the last contract modification. Scott Eskridge's letter said "He believes that no one at KTP" will be effected. I believe from the seniority lists that some may be effected. I have 2003 seniority in my area on nights. I have to believe they will be bumped. That is, unless, there is more to this than the union is sharing from BOTH plants.


Correct me if I am wrong, but our zone per the last modification is Indy, LAP, and KTP. Anyone on ILO that is surveyed to go to Chicago can "bump" anyone in their zone with less seniority. I am going only by the "highlights" page from the last modification.
If Kessinger or Herb or Stone or Eskridge wishes to jump in, they are welcome. The ones on ILO are lower seniority than the ones inside LAP. I do not know about Indy, but some on ILO have seniority on the ones at KTP. Time will tell..........soon.

[lap65]

Not trying to be a smart alec, but how would Kessinger know whether people at LAP will be ILO or TLO? Steve Stone hasn't even told us yet.

[beenaround]

It's going to be just like Thunder Over Louisville when all this garbage goes down!

[kessinger]

Jan 29, 2010 0:12:59 GMT -5 30yearpace said:

My question is, are these statements below true? I pulled these statements from the LAP forums



Jan 26, 2010, 6:15pm, madman wrote:Herb thanks for clearing this crap up,I have s ome questions. 1. If I get called to go anywhere out of zone can I bump someone with less seniority at Ktp? 2. Does voluntarily be asked to go to chicago qualifiy bumping someone or does it have to be a case that would cause me to loose benefits? thanks



1) Yes, if you get forced to make a decision, to have to go out of Zone. Then you will have three options. Accept, Decline and loose pay and benefits, Decline and roll to KTP, if you have the seniority on someone currently working. Then the KTP person will have only two decisions above.
2) You have to be forced to choose, to bump

Herb BC


Post from Elmer:

When LAP shutdown for retool all of you will be classified as ILO, You could be surveyed for Chicago if you turn it down you will lose your pay and benefits. If you have more seniority then a worker at KTP you could roll him, then he would have to go.

Now as far as them surveying you to go you we wont know until the last minute it depends on how many people volunteer to go.

But you will be classified as ILO and anyone who says different is lying to you.

Well unfortunatly the answer is YES and NO. Herb is exactly correct if you are put in a position that Chicago is a strike against someone at LAP. If that were the case they could bump someone at KTP as opposed to losing their benefits. But, there was a letter added to the first set of modifications that should prevent a transfer to Chicago from being a strike against you, or creating a situation that someone could bump KTP employees.

This letter "Future staffing issues- zone 7, louisville area" ( I am not going to type it all out). The letters basic purpose is as long as LAP is getting a product in a reasonable amount of time after the balance out of the explorer. They won't put LAP employees in the position of having a "strike" against them if they don't take a move. They would have the right to come back soon after they moved costing the company moving allowance money 2 times as well as churning at both plants since former LAPers at KTP could go back and any KTPers that were bumped to Chicago could come back also creating loads fo churn and training time at all three plants. The letter does say there has to be a good business case. If the downtime at LAP is going to be the short duration they are saying it is, it would not make financial sense for Ford to make all those moves. ( this paragraph rambles about, sorry, its the only way I could explain it)


What I worry about is them hiring the low wage workers at Chicago then NOT adding a product to LAP. Out of Zone employees DO NOT have the right to bump low wage employees out of their zone once they are past their probationary period.

Hope this answers everything. If not ask your follow up questions and I will try to clarify.

[rudedawg]

I wish someone would let us know so we can get prepared for what's ahead. If someone knows something spit it out or at least let us know your aware of the situation and are working on it. It would be nice if we went by a signed contract but some of us know how that goes.

***Just got a text from a source that stated that the UAW is working on a clarification as I was typing this. Thanks

[trinitus]

I believe Kessinger to right on the last contract modification that passed. There was a special clause in there for the People at LAP. In a nutshell, LAP could not bump KTP as long as they have a new product on the way. Now this also applys to KTP if we had a lay-off, we could not bump those folks from LAP.

I know TonyV is really good at getting this info out there, so how about it could you shed some light on this as well.

[TonyV]

This was posted for LAP employees on UAWLAP.org. It appears they do not know yet how everything will apply. They are working on it. Posted Friday:



Discussions about the 1200 jobs at the Chicago Assembly Plant are currently on
going. We are trying to clarify Language on a "Transfer of Operations" p. 87/88
Volume 1,and Return to Basic Unit Rights along with Moving Allowances,
p.136/137. Also, we trying to find the number of employees and locations
eligible for a posting to Chicago Assembly. Any questions you have please
forward them to me by using the "contact us" link on the website. A copy of the
email comes directly to me at work and home. With your help we can have all
your question answered before any postings occur.

In Solidarity,
Steven M. Stone







As more information becomes available, I will post for both plants to see. TonyV

[TonyV]

I e-mailed Steve Stone three questions I felt everyone would ask.
Here is the response I recieved. Thanks to Mr. Stone for answering these during his busy Friday. TonyV






Steve,

Many employees at KTP also would like to know if 'bump' seniority will come into play. 1) Will LAP ILO's be 'eligible' for transfer to Chicago?

Both for Transfer of Operations and a posting for volunteers.

2) Will they be able to 'bump' less senior employees at KTP in that instance?

If there are insufficient numbers to fill available out of zone opportunities, and an employee on infinite layoff is extended any job offer at an out-of-zone facility, the employee has three choices.



1) Accept the job offer,

2) Decline the job offer, and be placed on inactive status with no Co-provided income or benefit but retains recall rights, or

3) Bump the least senior employee within the same zone. LAP and KTP are in the same zone.





3) Does the letter "Future staffing issues-zone 7, Louisville area" apply in the instance of the ones on ILO right now?

"Where there is a good business case, … to minimize churning and the unnecessary relocation of idled employees…" The letter was written to protect employees at both LAP and KTP.



Also, we are checking Return to basic unit and moving allowances either to a facility or returning home. Thanks for the questions.



Steven M Stone
UAW Building Chairperson
Local 862/LAP
502-364-3657 (Office)
502-969-9136 (Hall)

[brizzel]

It is pretty sad that I get more information from online than i do my own back-up committeman. Thank you Brian for all your help on this and other situations. And you to TonyV.....

[ggcoop]

Here is something....If they have a return to work date scheduled or negotiated,They can be T.L.O.Something if I was a Union rep in this position,I'd be hammering to get.They are supposed to be placed on T.L.O. during re-tool,but so was the ones that are on I.L.O right now, according to Barry Ford, at one of the meetings that had taken place a long time ago, we were all supposed to be placed on TLO and remain working til Nov.09.I am sure he didn't just make this up.That was then,this is now....Anybody forced to move and declines have the right to bump in- zone by contract.But like a lot of things going on here lately,things are subject to change.I-U.A.W. dictates who they want to protect,plain and simple.They will find some form of a loop hole,they always do.Or come up with some shit that ain't even in the contract to protect who they want.

[jobs1stb4polarbear]

Ford Motor Company was in trouble, losing money, and asked the UAW to modify the contract and we voted on it(you know the history)....Ford never, never asked for the UAW to add in zone bumping, that was our UAW protecting our more seasoned UAW workers. I do not have a problem with it, that is how UAW works, that is why we have seniority..etc... my problem was in the timing of it all.....remember the modification was only to save the company money not to add protection to a group of people in our ranks......they could have waited to next contract negotiations.....The UAW lost me with Option C

Out-of-Zone Job Offer
After the existing hierarchy is completed, employees on layoff have three options:

A) accept an out-of-zone placement;
B) be dropped from pay and benefits with recall right only;
C) bump the low seniority employee in zone who is working
If option C is elected, the low-seniority working employee in the zone must accept out-of-town placement or be dropped from rolls with only recall rights.

[TonyV]

Brizzel, The union does not deal in speculation or rumor. They will only will pass along FACTS. This rumor mill is the place to inform people of what can come and deal with speculation. Your union is working very hard behind the scenes to get clarification and verify their facts before they say anything.
I appreciate Mr. Kessinger coming onto this forum and explaining contractual issues. Contractual information is not knowledge unless you understand how it applies.

[TonyV]

I am hearing the about half of the 262 that went out on ILO (about 130) have seniority over people at KTP.


"If" the ones on ILO are surveyed, "If" they choose to go or use their seniority to bump another, "If" , "If" , "If".......................


Let us all try to gather as much information as we can so that we all understand how this may effect employees and their families. We should all be asking questions that are tangible to the situation. We should all be assisting the ones around us that may be effected by this.

We should be asking Mr. Stone and Mr. Eskridge as facts become available. Both have shown a willingness to go out of their way to get the facts straight. Both are willing to listen to questions and answer them according to the contract and it's modification.(If Mr. Stone is willing to answer my questions after I ranted on after the last modification brought to us, he will answer anyone!) Mr. Eskridge has been a class act in that respect also.


We are only a union in namesake unless you help your union brother/sister around you that may be effected by this. If someone around you may be effected, ask the questions for them. It is the least you can do for your co-workers.

[javajoe]

Posted by jobs1stb4polarbear on Yesterday at 8:21pm

Ford Motor Company was in trouble, losing money, and asked the UAW to modify the contract and we voted on it(you know the history)....Ford never, never asked for the UAW to add in zone bumping, that was our UAW protecting our more seasoned UAW workers. I do not have a problem with it, that is how UAW works, that is why we have seniority..etc... my problem was in the timing of it all.....remember the modification was only to save the company money not to add protection to a group of people in our ranks......they could have waited to next contract negotiations.....The UAW lost me with Option C

Out-of-Zone Job Offer
After the existing hierarchy is completed, employees on layoff have three options:

A) accept an out-of-zone placement;
B) be dropped from pay and benefits with recall right only;
C) bump the low seniority employee in zone who is working
If option C is elected, the low-seniority working employee in the zone must accept out-of-town placement or be dropped from rolls with only recall rights.

So, you are for seniority rules unless it affects you adversely??

[ktpelec]

Great post Tony, Things are up in the air right now, nothing is definite, anything could change according to the "market" (gas prices)
Gotta Love that javajoe!

[jobs1stb4polarbear]

No javajoe, you missed the point... I have a problem with the timing in which it was added.... and i'm not laid off... i have seniority... but all that does not matter anymore... it is what it is....

[ScottR@KTP]

Ford does not want any of us in Chicago...they would love to hire 1200 new wage workers...so that alone may help keep everyone here in Louisville.

[rudedawg]

I thought being on TLO until after retool sound pretty good but it seems Ford didn't think along those same lines. I'm all for staying in Louisville as long as I get paid.

[ScottR@KTP]

Well the getting paid part is something Ford is struggling with...they want us replaced by new wage workers if they had their way. Sitting at home getting paid is last on their list of wants right now.

[TonyV]

Comparing the ILO seniority to the KTP seniority list - only 80 people could be effected. August of 2000 would be the cut off. That was going one for one, from senior to least senior.

The Chicago building chair has now said that Chicago assembly will be adding it's 2nd shift in June of this year.

I am also hearing that the International UAW will be making it's "business case" soon. The UAW should have more concrete information in the next couple of weeks.

[kessinger]

Tony is correct, the I-UAW is working on defining the "business case" now. Anything anyone tells you until that decision is made is speculation. The interpretation of the "Future Staffing-Louisville" letter is what all of this boils down to. Until that is worked out we can't answer the questions properly. We will pass on any info. we get as soon as we get it.

Keep in mind that the whole purpose of that letter was to keep people from being bumped out of this area during that downtime, it was written for this exact situation. It was written because the leadership at LAP and KTP told the I-UAW that this was something that needed to be fixed if we were to support that set of modifications, this letter was the "fix". We will now see if it realy was as solid as was promised. We saw this coming and asked that it be fixed before we would agree to support the mods.