New truths reveal old lies.

[kessinger]

Now that healthcare reform is in place, I ask that you guys pay attention to something. Now the Republicans have started talking about what parts of the bill they want to repeal. And what they AREN'T saying they are going to repeal says alot about what realy was in the bill.

Notice that they aren't saying they will repeal the "death panels". Why? Because they were lieing about there being death panels. They aren't asking for the removal of healthcare "rationing". Why? Again, because this is a lie. The list of things they claimed were in the bill that they CAN'T claim they are going to repeal is very telling.

I also want to note what they say they are going to repeal. After months and months of claiming Obama and healthcare would cost too much, what do Republicans say they want to repeal? The medicare spending cuts and the taxes on health insurance comapanys. WTF? You scream that it adds too much to our deficit but you want to increase spending and cut taxes? Realy? Do these people know that there are cameras on them when they speak?

Just adding this to the conversation. Keep an eye out for this when you watch the news tonight and you will see that I am right.

[marcus]

They want to repeal the whole thing but they cant do it right now.So they brought up 50 or so things they want to repeal and all but maybe 2 got turned down.

[kessinger]

True, but notice the lack of them saying they are going to repeal death panels and such. And everyone I have seen claims they want to reinstate medicare spending and cut taxes, how do they claim they are the fiscal conservatives. I know none of us liek it but the fact is at some point taxes must go up and spending down.

[hotcarl]

It was widely reported that both sides agreed with about 80% of what was in the original bill and that was the one that included the public option. Do you really think that Repblicans will eliminate a bill that keeps insurance companies from denying insurance to sick kids with pre-existing medical conditions? That would be political party suicide. The Republicans decided to play politics under the leadership of McConnell and have decided to pretty much down every piece of legislation brought forward by the Democrats. Remember the memo that got leaked during the auto bailout bill? They are nothing but a bunch of poor losers. Trade reform, including repealling or modifying NAFTA? Forget about it. Making it easier to form workplace unions through card check legislation? Forget about it too. Hopefully in November, the votors will see how the Republican are trying to shut down Congress.

[marcus]

I dont care what party it is R or D we cant afford this kind of crap.We need to be cutting spending not making more and more of it.Im glad the repuplicans pretty much tried to down everything the Democrats brought forward and wish they could have stop this.The people are going to speak in Nov.

[kessinger]

Yea but how Nov. goes is about to get a big facelift. The next thing on the agenda is banking reform. So, how are the Rep. gonna claim to not work with the marxist and say no to banking reform in todays climate? They are seriously screwed. They lose their base if they work with him and everyone else if they don't on upcoming issues.

[marcus]

Next big thing is going to be cap and trade and making illegals legal americans.But I agree he might go with banking reform first because alot of people dont like banks.

If he goes with banking reform you better know it will cost us millions more a year because he wants to create a consumer financial protection agency!!!More more more Im so sick of it.


Leave the banks alone and let them lend money to who they think can pay it back dont MAKE them lend money to people who cant pay it back.Dont tell banks what they can and cant invest in.

[kessinger]

NOONE made banks give credit cards to college students that had no jobs. I got em when I went (though i didn't go for long). There was no law on the books that required them to send me a pre approved credit card when i had no job. They do it to make money. And they will keep doing it to make moeny if noone stops it.

[marcus]

All people have to do is say NO I DONT WANT A CREDIT CARD.I dont have one and its no big deal.

[jobs1stb4polarbear]

.......When the Democrats say that the government, now ultimately in charge of the health care system, won’t somehow try to apportion(ration) at least some of those dollars or services, they are either lying or stupid.



Obamacare Supporters Can’t Deny Health Care Rationing


by Rich Stowell

Many Democrats have complained about Republican mischaracterization of their health care law. Indeed, many of them seem apoplectic that critics of Obamacare would even suggest that the new law would lead to rationing. If conservatives keep up the argument, any mention of "rationing" will be regulated as hate speech.

Americans don’t like rationing, so it’s understandable that Democrats would run from the term. A recent New York Times op-ed mocked any suggestion that a government-financed health care system would result in rationing. But supporters of Obamacare are the ones who grossly misunderstand the idea. Rationing is simply the act of apportioning money or goods.

I know a thing or two about rationing from my military service. In the Army, everything is rationed. We all get a prescribed number of the same uniform items, meals are not unlimited, and every Soldier receives the same equipment, whether he uses it or not.

On deployments, Soldiers are even given “ration cards,” to track the purchase of certain items. As a non-smoker, my tobacco rations went unused by anybody.

For supporters of Obamacare, it is utter ignorance to entertain any illusion that the government won't ration what it has dominion over.

The Congress, for example, appropriates tax dollars. With every spending bill, the public monies are rationed out to various agencies and projects. Rationing is such a basic fact of life that we take it for granted.

There are finite resources in this world. Each day, most of us ration our food. As I type this I am enjoying some Oreo cookies. I don’t have a magical Oreo machine that spits delicious chocolatey-creamy cookies whenever I want, so I only eat a few and save the rest for later.

At work I am constantly encouraged to ration my copies. Paper, I am told, costs trees, of which some people (mistakenly) think there is not a limitless supply. In fact, it is the left, particularly environmentalists, who insist that rationing is a virtue.

As a commuter, I ration my mileage and fuel. If gasoline were unlimited, we may not think twice about driving all over creation when it suits us. Except that we don’t have unlimited time. Each of us rations his/her time every day, choosing how it would be best spent.

So when the Democrats say that the government, now ultimately in charge of the health care system, won’t somehow try to apportion at least some of those dollars or services, they are either lying or stupid.

We are now shackled by a system that, at the direction of various government agencies, will force everybody to buy a health plan, make businesses supply insurance to their workers, and cut benefits from previously-enacted entitlements.

The president himself has touted that a crack down on waste, fraud, and abuse will save billions. Nobody defends waste, but what is wasteful to Mr. Jones might be needful from Mrs. Smith’s point of view. Who cares if the Joneses and Smiths are using their own dollars? Now they are Uncle Sam’s dollars, so he gets to decide what is needful. It may not be a death panel, but few could argue that cutting back on services isn’t a form of rationing.

In the Army, we always had enough uniforms. Meals were filling, and there was always a large enough supply of tobacco because I didn’t need or want any. If, however, new legislation added 30 million Soldiers to the force nearly instantly, then there wouldn’t be enough supplies, and rationing would take on a less bountiful quality. It would be bad enough if the Army did have enough of the bare necessities, but if our entire health care system operated on shortages, the consequences could be disastrous.

Rationing isn’t a dirty word. Nor is it a scare tactic that conservatives are trying to promulgate in order to build opposition to Obamacare. It is the reality of what happens when the government has control over any sector of the economy.

[bo862]

This isn't the original topic but since it was brought up.

Leave the banks alone and let them lend money to who they think can pay it back don't MAKE them lend money to people who cant pay it back.Dont tell banks what they can and cant invest in.

They don't care if they can pay it back. They know the government will pay it back because they are too big to fail.

All people have to do is say NO I DONT WANT A CREDIT CARD.I don't have one and its no big deal.

Look at it from the point of view from someone that say just got out of jail, has no home, no credit, no job or a minimum wage job. Why wouldn't they take advantage of a "free" check in the mail? The worst thing that would happen is that the banks would eventually come and repo the new car, big screen tvs or whatever they decided to do with the loan that is secured by the tax payers in this great "capitalist country".


As far as the health care goes, the health care industry was invited to take part in the discussions on what was going to be in the bill. Capitalism 101 i believe says something about legally making the biggest profit possible. I cant imagine a billion dollar industry not finding someone smart enough to add bits to a piece of legislation that are going to be very profitable for their industry. There is no way they are going to take care of the general pubic over their own company profits.

[marcus]

"Look at it from the point of view from someone that say just got out of jail, has no home, no credit, no job or a minimum wage job. Why wouldn't they take advantage of a "free" check in the mail? The worst thing that would happen is that the banks would eventually come and repo the new car, big screen tvs or whatever they decided to do with the loan that is secured by the tax payers in this great "capitalist country".

Whats this have to do with my credit card statement?

[jefflebowski]

You've diverged from the issue. Banking reform will be the next administration agenda. Will opponents of reform fear being cast as allies of the banks (which they are)? Maybe not. Back in January, Frank Luntz, a G.O.P. strategist, circulated a memo on how to oppose financial reform. His key idea was that Republicans should claim that up is down — that reform legislation is a “big bank bailout bill,” rather than a set of restrictions on the banks. Dosen't it sound familiar? This will be played in public the same as healthcare reform. Lies and fear. Sure enough, a few days ago Senator Richard Shelby of Alabama, in a letter attacking the Dodd bill, claimed that an essential part of reform — tougher oversight of large, systemically important financial companies — is actually a bailout, because “The market will view these firms as being ‘too big to fail’ and implicitly backed by the government.” They're already viewed in the market as to big to fail. Remember that the biggest bailouts took place under a conservative Republican administration, which claimed to believe deeply in free markets.
Read everything, verify everything. Just because it's stated three times dosen't mean it's true. Question authority, democrat or republican. Follow the money.
You're either a pig, sheep, or a dog.

[bo862]

Expecting everyone else to do the responsible thing, and refuse them when they cant afford them means we will be paying for everyone Else's bill down the road, just like we have with the recent bailouts. I agree with your suggestion 100%, but if nothing changes this will happen again.

[kessinger]

Ok , on the rationing, this article is misleading. Channeling funds is not the RATIONING everyone was scared of. The REPs were claiming only so many people would get heart surgerys if they needed em or some other surgery. And polar you know that is what they meant. To change what they claimed rationing is now is realy kinda sad.


On the credit issue. I agree, let banks lend to who they want. But if they do, don't let them tie up the courts trying to get their money back. If they make a loan to a person that loses a job then they should have recourse. They made the loan in good faith and it wasn't their fault it fell through. But to give terrible loans to people who can't pay then using tax dollars "the courts" to recoup the loss on your dumb business decision is horse shit. Why do my tax dollars go to dig out the banks dumb decision. My taxes pay the guy that hands out the sopenas the judge the baliffs,........................ If you loan money to someone you know can't pay it back, tough luck, make better decisions. I am for responsibility but that extends to banks also. If you put a sign up that says "no credit no problem" your on your own in my opinion when it comes to collecting.

Thats my split with republicans, they are all about PERSONAL responsability but when it comes to business they feel all the fault is on the individual. Well they are making money hand over fist they need to take some of the blame when they do dumb things.