srlap
New Member
Posts: 7 
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Post by srlap on Apr 8, 2010 7:24:13 GMT -5
Just wondering how the Union justifies working retirees at KTP when we have union brothers and sisters laid off  why wouldn't we call back laid off workers first . Doesn't seem right |
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Post by watchmen on Apr 8, 2010 8:19:52 GMT -5
This had better not be true...  |
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srlap
New Member
Posts: 7
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Post by srlap on Apr 8, 2010 8:23:46 GMT -5
Check out the weekly update from UAW... (This is a Quote ) No
outside personnel is doing any rework in our facility, however, KTP has set
up an offsite location by the their plant where some of our retirees have
been called to assist in the rework. Again this is KTP work, we have been
asked to help.
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Post by moelap on Apr 8, 2010 8:39:09 GMT -5
I think you already no the answer to your question....Retirees have their pension and insurance...if they rehire you right now I believe your benefits would be reinstated and thats not what they want right now.....They would rather spend $250 million in South American than put our Union brothers and sister back to work! Sad to say but true.
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dave
Amateur
Posts: 169
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Post by dave on Apr 8, 2010 17:26:19 GMT -5
That is a bunch of BS. And I blame the retirees just as much as Ford, they know there are people laid off right now. Did they forget we Gave up raises so they wouldnt lose there benifits. Guess so.
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Post by ggcoop on Apr 8, 2010 19:02:54 GMT -5
I have personally discussed this issue with several Union officials.At L.A.P. and K.T.P..Apparently,they are "allowed" to do what they are doing from a contractual point of view.To me,what else is new?They have exhausted the repairmen,and team leaders at each plant.I actually work for the company(AQL) that the work is being sub-contracted to. Let me also state that it isn't just retirees working.There are a few ILO's working,getting their T.A.P. as well as people who haven't even worked for Ford who were hired off the street.I know this to be a fact.I have expressed interest in organizing that company seeing how they have monopolized the sorting in K.T.P..According to Steve Stone,he was able to reach a agreement with the company that does the sorting at L.A.P. and is in the process of organizing there,making those employees U.A.W. members. There are close to 120 people working for AQL.Give or take a few.They sort for several companies throughout the area,not just Ford.Traditionally,these sorting jobs were re-employment for retirees to keep them active within the plants.With the health care co-pay rising for retirees,some of them have had to go back to work.The jobs are not even close to comparison as working on the line.The hardest job at AQL isn't as hard as the easiest job on the line.What they are doing at Springhurst,I can see being more of a job like the assembly line or a repair shop. I don't like it at all to be in the position that I am,but at the same time,I have to work and am employed by this company.I wonder how Ford and the U.A.W. would feel if we stood out in front of Ford,protesting all of the work that is being outsourced while there are 260 active dues paying members struggling to make ends meet?Paying for their houses and Ford car payments that they have purchased prior to the elimination of Gen?Maybe we need to get the media involved.I guess I could call Bennett Habaerly,or Joe Arnold from the news.Inform the Newspaper.When discussing this issue with local reps,it always falls back on I.-U.A.W.They arranged these agreements. At the same time,look yourself in the mirror. Were you one of the ones who agreed to these modifications?I know,you were tricked or manipulated into believing that this was in the best interest for your company.Or that if you agreed to these terms you would have job security,etc.Looking at the big picture,the Union isn't going to fight to bring anybody back.Ford isn't having it.They would rather sub-contract these jobs out,seeing how they view this as a temporary demand. The Union may not like it,but there is supposedly nothing they can do.They have made arrangements for you to go to Chicago.Take it our leave it.It's a hard pill to swallow! Angers me as well as you. You can bitch and bitch,but the fact remains,they aren't gonna do anything about it.Plain and simple.I have bitched and bitched and have expressed this the best way I can.Trust me! Anyone in need of a job,who is on T.A.P.,there are applications in the Fern Valley Union hall available in Jim Fisher's office.They have hired over 35 I.L.O.'s.If you have a problem with that,feel free to express this to whomever you feel fit.Have at it.You have my support! At this point in time,I am just happy to have a job and having the opportunity to express my 2 cents daily if I feel to the Union.I am grateful that some people in need, have a opportunity to work and continue to make their pay and wages.Like I said,I don't necessarily like it,but it could be none of us working. When I was hired for AQL,I expressed and still do that there was 260 plus people out on the street.I felt those people should have first opportunity for those available jobs especially since they agreed to the elimination of Gen. and have set up T.A.P.Especially since this work is being done in a Ford Motor Co.I also feel that it is the responsibility of my Union to help us in finding re-employment.I guess the Chicago deal is there way of fulfilling that obligation. Believe me,I can go on and on about it,but I would be filling this whole page. We gave up these jobs(clean-up,incoming quality,etc.) remember that the next time you vote yes to a concessionary agreement.Remember how it has effected you.From the looks of it,we may never be able to negotiate to get any of that stuff back.I am only one voice,but I guarantee,this voice will be heard!Weather they like it or not.Or weather you like it or not.I am persistent and am not going to quit until these things are addressed,looked at,and possibly resolved.Not sure anything will be resolved,but there sure won't be anything resolved relying on other people all of the time. Where has that gotten you? I encourage all to get involved!You have a voice! You have the ability to question and hold accountable.I am hoping that just maybe someone somewhere will hear our cry for help and do something about this.Maybe they will,maybe they won't,but nothing is gonna be resolved,addressed,etc. if you just sit back and don't try. GET INVOLVED!!! There is a Union meeting each month,second Tuesday of each month.There are reps available by phone,computer,etc. Address your concerns!
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Post by jobs1stb4polarbear on Apr 8, 2010 19:38:02 GMT -5
lol, some union officials are working overtime this weekend! ....its good to be the king!
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Post by ilomisery on Apr 8, 2010 20:27:47 GMT -5
well said coop, you nailed it!
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Post by hughjorgan on Apr 8, 2010 20:51:43 GMT -5
They have exhausted the repairmen,and team leaders at each plant.
Just have to put my two cents worth in on this whole repair fiasco, and especially this comment.They did not even exhaust the repair classification before they moved on to the product specialist and team leader classifications. I work body repair and we were told that we were not qualified to do this type of work. The brothers that work in pre-delivery paint and metal were not qualified either, according to the union. Maybe it is sour grapes because I work body repair, but it seems like bullshit to me that I can tear a truck apart to repair a missing air bag curtain but I am not proficient enough to replace a oil cooler or crank position sensor. When we had the transmission fiasco during the last big launch we were sure qualified enough to work along side our friends from Rousch in replacing them. When I reminded the rep about that he acted like I offended him by asking if I had any right to question who was doing the repairs. I respect Brians comments about the limited repair facilities available, but I drive right by L.A.P. and the old Springhurst dealership every day on my way to work. Seems like the last resort would be to outsource this resort to non Ford and non-union folks. We want to brag about how we contain everything in-house and not let get to the dealers. Just seems like double talk to me. When we hear all these rumors about assemblers and extra folks doing the work at L.A.P. it just pisses me off. They should have brought the brothers and sisters on I.L.O. in and showed them how to do the work. I am not ragging on the retirees, but i am sure some of these folks could have used a little coin to go with their T.A.P. Someone had to show these folks how do the repair. Why not show our own how to do it. Flame away folks.
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Post by jobs1stb4polarbear on Apr 8, 2010 20:58:46 GMT -5
amen hugh.....
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Post by ggcoop on Apr 8, 2010 21:07:39 GMT -5
Great post and maybe you should try and file grievance.Especially since last Friday was for triple time! You are far more experienced than a lot of people working over there,believe me!You should be offered this work before anybody,including ILO's! Overtime equalization!
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Post by cam716 on Apr 9, 2010 10:42:57 GMT -5
I for one am glad some ppl r getting ot......but I feel they should survey everyone instead of certain ppl.....this being said I knew there would be hard feelings w/everyone...they should have just kept it as ktp work......and had surveyed their bunch.......why is it we r same local862 different contracts? ?? |
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Post by elmer on Apr 9, 2010 15:51:51 GMT -5
The International as well as the local really stuck it to those 250 laidoff people form LAP. I don't understand it as they where the only one's who where hurt really bad form these givebacks, no other plants employees suffered as much as those who where laid off form LAP.
So lets not forget at election time.
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Post by keithf on Apr 9, 2010 17:00:04 GMT -5
The International as well as the local really stuck it to those 250 laidoff people form LAP. I don't understand it as they where the only one's who where hurt really bad form these givebacks, no other plants employees suffered as much as those who where laid off form LAP. So lets not forget at election time. Amen, Elmer...Amen. there are alot of outside jobs associated with ford that those of us on ILO should have had. there are approx 40 people doing security/surveillance work at KTP watching the new trucks that they have built before they are shipped. the company and union should have worked together to get us a chance at those jobs. but i'm not gonna sit here and bash the union anymore, but i will remember it come election time. MORE IMPORTANTLY, in the future i will be more involved and do my best to make sure what needs to get done for US, gets done....every time i bitch, there is a voice in the back of my head telling me that I could have been the guy to make these things happen and make a difference. instead. i just assumed somebody else would get it done. |
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Post by kessinger on Apr 9, 2010 18:42:41 GMT -5
Ok, thank you coop for at least letting me know we were getting wacked on the LAP side of this site. I wasn't even reading these. So let me answer you guys.
First off no reason to blame the I-UAW if you don't like what is said blame me. We kept every bit of this work in house we could. We are limited on the lifts we have and it is required for the repair. We negotiated to use LAP repair and thier lifts to keep more work UAW/Ford. Not using LAP would not have created any more OT for us at KTP because we don't have any more lifts to use. It just would have been more outsourced work.
Then we got them to agree to rent springhurst. Current UAW/KTP employees work in springhurst on the weekends on OT. We do not have enough people to staff it all week long so they contracted AQL (and we asked them to try and hire former UAW people) to work in there during the week when we can't staff it. They have the right, once they have used every means to use active employees, to outsource the work. Or if they can have it done cheaper they can source it and we all know its hard to win that argument when other companies wont pay crap. I know the production employees don't understand this as much as the trades do. But, this is a common thing in the trades.
We had thousands of trucks to be fixed at 45 minutes per fix. There is no way to keep all this in house or we would be making 2012's before we shipped all the 2011's.
We tried very hard to get the laid off employees in here during launch even before the repair issues came along becuase temp launch jobs have made us very short on people. We could not get them to agree to bring people back for the 3 to 5 months we needed them because Ford refused to pay the 100k plus per employee it would cost to start and pay their benefits again to work them a few months. I wish we could have made this happen but couldn't. If you think you could make them pay it please come do so, I'm not to proud to learn new things. If you really think any elected rep could get that done your fooling yourself.
To keep work in the UAW we have used LAP people twice now instead of them outsourcing the work. THIS TO MY KNOWLEDGE WAS NEVER DONE BEFORE. We borrowed trades people from LAP to do the bodyshop and we are using LAP people now instead of them sourcing it. I know this isn't as good as bringing laid off people back but it's keeping all that money in UAW workers pockets.
Hugh if they told you its because you aren't qualified they should not have told you that. We have trained the people that work to do the repair. On pg 37 of the local it states how you backfill shop repair. It goes Line repair, prod. spc., TL, then VAT's. We have gone by and will continue to go by the contract. Hugh, yes you guys worked when Rousch was here. But we have a new contract since then. Many of the Paint and Body repair guys, maybe even you, asked that the repair classifications be seperated because every repairman in the plant could bump you guys out in a reduction. This was part of that seperation. Maybe not you, but this is what many of the paint and metal guys requested in contract proposals. Kinda unfair to us that we did what was asked to protect your classification, yet you aren't willing to take the bad with the good.
I guess one last clarification. The retirees aren't working for us they are working for AQL. We ask these companies to use laid off LAPers all the time as coop can attest to, we have no control over who they hire but we do make the request.
You may not like my answers. But, its the truth of the matter. We will continue to fight to keep work in UAW hands and will continue to look for oppertunitys to bring back laid off workers.
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Post by tonyp on Apr 9, 2010 19:29:35 GMT -5
1. Thanks for the insight Kess
2. Coop I'm sure your post has just as much insight but dude you gotta start using your space bar. It's unreadable.
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Post by chicabonita on Apr 10, 2010 3:38:02 GMT -5
No disrespect to anyone laid off or currently employed...but what a bunch of fucking crybabies! AQL is an outside company that has a contract with FORD, not the union. They can hire anybody they want. Do you guys think that you are the only people in the area that are laid off? Or are you just that fucking selfish that you think you are better than non-Ford/non-union people? You get unemployment...at top rate AND Sub or TAP. Puh-lease...you should have listened in orientation when they said to save money & not buy new cars/trucks/boats/motorcycles/etc. Oh yeah, & $300,000 homes. Then, maybe, you wouldn't be struggling so. & let's not forget a lot of your expensive 'habits'. Ya can't live like a rock star forever! To sum up what I'm trying to say...the retirees & non-Ford workers have just as much right as someone on ILO to be employed by AQL. So quit yer fucking crying! You want to work for them, put in an application just like everyone else did. p.s. I'm on ILO, too.  |
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Post by lucero on Apr 10, 2010 6:39:06 GMT -5
Thats my girl! Gotta love the Chica.
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Post by turbo350 on Apr 10, 2010 8:31:05 GMT -5
I've been waiting for somebody to say that.  |
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Post by ggcoop on Apr 10, 2010 9:32:26 GMT -5
I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Definitely not the way I view it! Thank Kess for explaining why all of this is happening. I will be to see you soon,brother.
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Post by ihatemyjob on Apr 10, 2010 13:07:08 GMT -5
No disrespect to anyone laid off or currently employed...but what a bunch of fucking crybabies! AQL is an outside company that has a contract with FORD, not the union. They can hire anybody they want. Do you guys think that you are the only people in the area that are laid off? Or are you just that fucking selfish that you think you are better than non-Ford/non-union people? You get unemployment...at top rate AND Sub or TAP. Puh-lease...you should have listened in orientation when they said to save money & not buy new cars/trucks/boats/motorcycles/etc. Oh yeah, & $300,000 homes. Then, maybe, you wouldn't be struggling so. & let's not forget a lot of your expensive 'habits'. Ya can't live like a rock star forever! To sum up what I'm trying to say...the retirees & non-Ford workers have just as much right as someone on ILO to be employed by AQL. So quit yer fucking crying! You want to work for them, put in an application just like everyone else did. p.s. I'm on ILO, too. This people that are layed off BY FORD have every right to be pissed off. This work is FORD work. Just the same as every other fucking repair that is done every single day throughout the plant. I didnt hear anyone saying they are better than non ford workers who are laid off. But fact is that this work belongs to FORD employees not outsiders. I dont give a fuck whats been negotiated between our sorry ass union and the company. These sorry bastards tried to push off more contract concessions on Lap and Ktp back in the fall and then Ford ends up turning a profit and international union gets raises and ford execs. getting bonuses. But then we have laid off employees from Lap that could be doing work for the local they are part of and its being outsourced. |
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Post by madman on Apr 10, 2010 13:57:35 GMT -5
AMEN , ihatemyjob These people quickly forget this could be them. Let me tell you there are no jobs out there that pays much more then 10 dollars. Im tight and always have been but how do you tell your kids your in danger of losing your home or im sorry you cant go to college or christmas is canceled , be careful what you say it could be you next.
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Post by keithf on Apr 10, 2010 18:14:47 GMT -5
No disrespect to anyone laid off or currently employed...but what a bunch of fucking crybabies! AQL is an outside company that has a contract with FORD, not the union. They can hire anybody they want. Do you guys think that you are the only people in the area that are laid off? Or are you just that fucking selfish that you think you are better than non-Ford/non-union people? You get unemployment...at top rate AND Sub or TAP. Puh-lease...you should have listened in orientation when they said to save money & not buy new cars/trucks/boats/motorcycles/etc. Oh yeah, & $300,000 homes. Then, maybe, you wouldn't be struggling so. & let's not forget a lot of your expensive 'habits'. Ya can't live like a rock star forever! To sum up what I'm trying to say...the retirees & non-Ford workers have just as much right as someone on ILO to be employed by AQL. So quit yer fucking crying! You want to work for them, put in an application just like everyone else did. p.s. I'm on ILO, too. thats a fair point, and needs to be addressed. but i disagree 100%. those of us on ILO were not just screwed over by ford and the UAW...they admitted we were screwed when it was negotiated that we would have our SUB reinstated with the last modification that was voted down. the very LEAST ford could have done is to try to get those of us on ILO those jobs, and many of the other jobs that are outsourced. |
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Post by lap@lap on Apr 10, 2010 19:28:01 GMT -5
Kess, Could you explain how Ford calculates the cost of $100K per employee returned to work. Seems extremely high.
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Post by kessinger on Apr 11, 2010 2:24:30 GMT -5
Sorry, I guess the right way to have said that wouldn't be that it cost 100K to start their benefits, it would cost that much after they were laid back off after launch.
If they brought anyone back it would reset their clock for Insurance, benefits and sub as well I believe. Many of the ILO's have already ran out of both. I don't have my books in front of me to figure up how long each would be but you can kinda do the math in your head and see how fast that starts to add up.
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Post by chicabonita on Apr 11, 2010 16:04:00 GMT -5
Awwww, looks like I touched ihatemyjob's sore spot.  He/she must be the leader of the crybabies. hahahaha |
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Post by keithf on Apr 11, 2010 17:14:54 GMT -5
Awwww, looks like I touched ihatemyjob's sore spot. He/she must be the leader of the crybabies. hahahaha expecting a union to look out for its dues paying members, is not being a crybaby. expecting a company to look after its employees, is not being a crybaby. |
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Post by RonBallard on Apr 11, 2010 18:10:29 GMT -5
I also did not like the way this overtime was handled. But Have to give Kess credit coming on here and giving why it was handled this way. And accept the decisions the union made.
What I think is wrong is People coming on here bitching Hiding behind screen names. If you have issues and really feel the way you are posting PUT your name on it.
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Post by forker on Apr 11, 2010 18:33:38 GMT -5
I voted like Mr. Stone told his people to vote. I was told something about our plant was different than others because our plant was promised a new product and I would not be laid-off or lose my benefits. So I get screwed and I am not supposed to bitch about it? That's a hard pill to swallow. I guess I didn't drink enough cool-aid!
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Post by chicabonita on Apr 11, 2010 20:48:16 GMT -5
Today at 4:04pm, chicabonita wrote:
Awwww, looks like I touched ihatemyjob's sore spot. He/she must be the leader of the crybabies. hahahaha
expecting a union to look out for its dues paying members, is not being a crybaby.
expecting a company to look after its employees, is not being a crybaby.
My original post had nothing to do with expecting our company or our union to look out for us. I agree, we got fucked. Big time! My post was about who AQL employs. The point of my post was to state that our union & our company have no control over who AQL chooses to hire. So why be mad at outsiders or retirees who work for AQL? It's not their fault Ford chooses cheap labor over loyalty to their people.
I hope this clarifies my point, I think some of you missed it. I still stand by every word I wrote, & I don't give a FUCK what anyone thinks of my opinion or of me. (keithf, please don't think I'm cussing you, I'm not. I just like to cuss. lol)
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why wouldn't we call back laid off workers first . Doesn't seem right
He/she must be the leader of the crybabies. hahahaha