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Post by marcus on Apr 28, 2010 6:43:35 GMT -5
Should we make the 15 million or more illegals that are here now legal?Discuss
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2010 11:54:28 GMT -5
NO! They are here illegally and they are criminals because they broke the law by doing this. There are proper ways of coming here legally, they chose to break the law. They are working here tax free causing more economic havoc then what its worth. They come here and crap their kids out on US soil so they become welfare recipients ASAP. And not to mention all the drugs that come across the border as well. I say, send every last one of them back, after they all have been finger printed, photographed, and if they want to come back here, they go through the proper channels. And most importantly "LEARN TO SPEAK FUCKING ENGLISH!" My family learned to speak/read English within the first year they arrived in the US and there is no reason why these people shouldn't learn to speak and read it as well. And fine the shit out of companys that use illegals here in the US as well.
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Post by lucero on Apr 28, 2010 12:01:57 GMT -5
BOOOYAHHH!
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Apr 28, 2010 14:09:44 GMT -5
What they said...
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Post by 30yearpace on Apr 28, 2010 14:28:04 GMT -5
NO! They are here illegally and they are criminals because they broke the law by doing this. There are proper ways of coming here legally, they chose to break the law. They are working here tax free causing more economic havoc then what its worth. They come here and crap their kids out on US soil so they become welfare recipients ASAP. And not to mention all the drugs that come across the border as well. I say, send every last one of them back, after they all have been finger printed, photographed, and if they want to come back here, they go through the proper channels. And most importantly "LEARN TO SPEAK FUCKING ENGLISH!" My family learned to speak/read English within the first year they arrived in the US and there is no reason why these people shouldn't learn to speak and read it as well. And fine the shit out of companys that use illegals here in the US as well. Well SPOKEN!!! |
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Post by jobs1stb4polarbear on Apr 28, 2010 20:57:56 GMT -5
.....don't give a shit either way, we have other more important issues to worry about....if you dont like Arizona's Law, dont go there! ....i belieave in states rights and the people in that state can do what ever the fuck they want.... Watch: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9csCerjfdE |
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Post by marcus on Apr 28, 2010 21:58:38 GMT -5
I say its a Huge issue,if 15 million are made legal thats more than enough votes to swing the balance to the D party.Plus they want to let Felons vote and puero rica a state.What do you think they are up to.
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Post by kessinger on May 1, 2010 7:06:02 GMT -5
If we let them stay again we might as well just open the border. Continuing to reward them for sneaking in just makes more sneak in. It was a terrible idea when Reagan did it, it would be a terrible idea now.
Polar so if one state decided to hand out citizenship you would be ok with it? Then they would move to all the other states after they were citizens and we have to live with the decision that state made.
That is why states rights don't work we are one country and the decisions of one state WILL always effect the others.
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Post by ktpfromlap on May 17, 2010 13:16:36 GMT -5
Wikipedia says... "E-Verify is an Internet-based, free program run by the United States government that compares information from an employee's Employment Eligibility Verification Form I-9 to data from U.S. government records. If the information matches, that employee is eligible to work in the United States. If there's a mismatch, E-Verify alerts the employer and the employee is allowed to work while he or she resolves the problem. The program is operated by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) in partnership with Social Security Administration. According to the DHS website, more than 196,000 employers now use E-Verify. Over 1,400 companies enroll in the program every week." To read up on E-Verify, see: www.uscis.gov/files/nativedocuments/E-Verify_Manual.pdfBeyond this, our illustrious Federal government then must turn a blind eye and doesn't bother itself to do what it would have in its control to do to put an end to all of this illegal immigration activity. The E-Verify User Manual should be required to be utilized by ALL employers in this country and then religiously used to root out the illegals and send them back home. Any employer who does not comply should then be arrested. There is a really big employer who is guilty of recruiting illegals mentioned in the movie Food, Inc. that would no doubt have to have a number of their executives arrested then which is yet another reason why this law will never come to pass because I'm sure their lobbyists would not sit back and allow for that to happen. But bear in mind that IF such a law was enacted, then we would be cutting off the incentives that bring the illegals here to begin with and it would curtail that activity practically over night. This has not come to pass mainly because the ones in power that can make it happen do not want it to happen because they want them here and want to grant them amnesty and naturalize them so that they can gain more votes that will allow them to stay in power where they have good pay and health benefits of their own not to mention that they do not actually work that hard for a living. So, I think to myself, how do these state governments protect their people and their economy when their hands are being tied. I can see how this law was born out of desperation. They have been backed into a corner with no real resources to stop the hemorrhaging that is taking place in their local economies. So, what are they to do? Well, I for one am behind SB1070 until something better comes along and I say "better" simply because of the bad publicity that it is getting as I do not personally know any of it to be bad. Heck, does anyone even know if any of the language in that law is discriminatory in nature like the boycotters are asserting? I haven't had time to read it yet, but will do so soon. Has anyone read it? I heard that neither the United States Attorney General nor the President himself has read it yet. If I was to guess, I'd say that most all who speak of it are going on hearsay at this point. ( www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf ) So, since I see no other way at this point and the current business as usual isn't working then I would be game for boycotting the boycotters: www.azcentral.com/business/articles/2010/05/13/20100513immigration-boycotts-list.html Any product that comes from the locals of the SB1070 boycotters won't be bought by me. I keep that list with me when I go shopping and read the labels that depict their place of origin and simply avoid those products/foods that come from those places of origin. I am with the majority ( www.yumasun.com/news/phoenix-60901-americans-poll.html ) on this one. Also, I'm going to try to look into how I can support Arizona made products/services as well. If nothing else is born of this discussion, I at least hope people are made aware of the fact that E-Verify falls horribly short of doing any good and needs an overhaul AND other federal laws need to be enacted so that it can be as affective as possible. |
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Post by marcus on May 17, 2010 16:58:46 GMT -5
We are a country of immigrants and should not stop them from coming here as long they are legal.We have room for just so many at a time.
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Post by kessinger on May 18, 2010 6:45:17 GMT -5
It breaks down to what kind of people we want in America. If someone is willing to break the law to get here, then they obviously will be willing to break the law to aquire or do other things as well.
Then there are the people who want to come here badly yet don't break the law to do so even though they could easily cross the border to get here. These people obviously respect laws and will be more willing to obey them. This is a no brainer to me.
It will never happen though, our government isn't going to hold companies accountable for hiring them. So, finding them and rounding them up will cost big dollars and no one is going to want to pay for it.
Fine the business' that hire them double the amount it cost's to send them back. The government makes money and the taxpayer isn't paying for a problem they didn't create.
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Post by bo862 on May 18, 2010 7:34:01 GMT -5
The Government could kill two birds with one stone on this one. Hire that 10% that are unemployed to round up the illegals, guard and transport them out of the country. If we are charging the companies 2X the cost for all of this, it will sound like a win win situation.
If only we could get the government to do something about it.
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Post by ktpelec on May 18, 2010 8:08:04 GMT -5
Where would the money come from to hire these people? The people that are unemployed may not be qualified to do this type of work, not everyone can become a Federal Marshal overnight. There is a place in our society for a certain number of these people. Low paid migrant workers have been in the Agriculture Industry for decades, thats what keeps your produce prices fairly low. Big Business and all it's Political power will always be for cheap labor. Throughout history the U.S. has used cheap foreign labor to better itself, a lot of our infrastructure was built with people seeking better lives for themselves. World population is soaring with only so many jobs and resources to go around.
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Post by ktpfromlap on May 18, 2010 11:07:13 GMT -5
Low paid migrant workers have been in the Agriculture Industry for decades, thats what keeps your produce prices fairly low. Well, they could stop subsidizing those industries that do not need subsidizing (i.e. corn and soy) as these are also automated harvesting and use that money, instead, to subsidize the industries that hire migrant workers and this will then allow for better pay without increasing the prices of it on the market. Doing this would make it so others would want to do the work for the pay that should have been given all along. I like the idea of fining the employers who hire them instead of throwing them in jail. Jail time will only cost the tax payer more money and will not do anything about the costs incurred in the return of the illegals to their former countries. Still yet, they need to make E-Verify mandatory and then the federal government needs to act upon the information that is revealed from the use of it, something of which they are reluctant to do....WHY IS THAT?  ?? Until that question is answered and coals are put to their feet to elicit needed changes, nothing is going to change. |
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Post by ktpfromlap on May 18, 2010 11:29:42 GMT -5
The Government could kill two birds with one stone on this one. Hire that 10% that are unemployed to round up the illegals, guard and transport them out of the country. If we are charging the companies 2X the cost for all of this, it will sound like a win win situation. They could start with the workers who put my roof on last summer. If I had it to do all over again, I'd ask that roofing company to show me that they belonged to E-Verify or maybe not as I'll explain further. They, no doubt, could not show me that, not that that would be proof, but I'm fairly certain they do not do any checking of their employees. I'm pretty sure there was not a single English speaking person on my roof that whole day and they may very well have been illegal aliens. I know, I know, just because they do not speak English doesn't mean they are illegals, but it does raise ones suspicions. When you get an illegal alien to roof houses for your business, you get someone who potentially works for less, has no benefits AND someone who is not going to be drawing attention to themselves asking to be unionized either. They probably do not do much complaining to their bosses either about poor work conditions or abuses. The average consumer doesn't consider all of this, but only looks at the price tag. Well what they don't consider is that they may be getting the roof done for $5,000 instead of $6,500, but they are paying higher taxes to pay for the "free" services being offered to them and higher insurance premiums to offset the cost of their unpaid medical bills. We're paying the same amount, just in different ways. Back to E-Verify, see: www.uscis.gov/files/article/E4eng.pdfWhen it asks, "Am I [the employer] required to participate?" It answers, "No." It asks, "How do I register to participate in E-Verify?" It answers, "...you [the employer] will be required to sign a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU)." It asks, "When may an employer initiate a query under E-Verify?" It answers, "The employer must initiate the query no later than the end of 3 business days after the new hire's actual start date." It asks, "Which employees should be verified through the system?" It answers, "As a participant in E-Verify, employers are required to verify all new hired employees, both U.S. citizens and non-citizens." It asks, "If I am an employer who would like to run an employee's Form I-9 information through E-Verify, but that employee does not yet have a social security number, what should I do?" It answers, "If you are an employer with such an employee, you should complete the Form I-9 process with him or her and wait to run an E-Verify query on that individual until you have received his or her SSN. In the meantime, you have completed the Form I-9 Employment Eligibility Verification process with your employee and verified his or her work authorization so that your employee will be allowed to work temporarily without a SSN." WTH??? What exactly is working temporarily? Clarification may or may not be found in the Users Manual itself. At any rate, can people just open bogus businesses with the sole purpose of weeding out illegals? What I mean is can someone start a landscaping business and then advertise for workers with the sole intention of just E-Verifying everyone who responds to the ad in hopes of exposing the illegals? Hmmmm....curious. Would that be a way around the federal govenments lack of action? Better yet, can we just refuse to do business with a company that can not produce or will not produce for our perusal a signed Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) between that company and the DHS and Imigration? Well, this would prove futile as they (the employer) can opt out of the program at any time. They could sign up for the program, obtain the signed MOU and then immediately opt out, but retain that signed MOU which outwardly would look like they are participating, but are not. I actually called the USCIS today and asked them how we can verify if a company is actively using E-Verify and she said there is no way. The DHS is aware of which companies are actively using the E-Verify program and which ones have opted out, but they do not share that information with the general public? Hmmmm, I wonder why not? So, this is not a better idea after all. Anyone out there got a business that they would like to utilize E-Verify in their hiring practices? Just because you hire someone doesn't mean you have to actually work them. I'm sure that that is just too easy and there would be some sort of consequences, just not sure what those consequences would be... |
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Post by marcus on May 18, 2010 17:38:02 GMT -5
Heck yea fine people who hire illegals Im all for that!
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Post by bo862 on May 18, 2010 18:16:33 GMT -5
Glad you asked. Like Kessinger suggested, fine the companies at least 2X the amount of what it would take to ship them out. That would pay for some of the cost since more than half are probably living on some type of government welfare. The rest, I wouldn’t mind diverting some of my tax money that is currently waiting to go for corporate welfare (referring to the TARP program for the billion $ banking industry).
I agree. Of the 10% unemployment rate even if only 2.5% would be capable or willing that would still be over 250k individuals to put through training, more than would be needed. The professional positions could be filled from the civilian workforce. Putting 250k people back to work would do several things. First it would get a lot of people off unemployment and get them into really decent jobs. Second it would get more money into circulation from the 250k people that would be hired. There are the secondary effects, consider the insurance that they would receive. Insurance companies would receive an immediate boost from their premiums. Consider uniform companies, baton makers (or whatever they call them) Gun and ammo makers, vehicles for hauling, cattle car makers to put them in and of course ac units for the cattle cars. All of those companies would receive direct cash for their services/products. This sounds like a good way to kick start the economy. Training would simply take time. The sooner the better, but they have been here in large numbers since the 80s, I can wait another year or two.
Not everyone would need to be trained for investigating and raiding. There would be plenty of administrative, transportation and other positions to fill.
Correct. The federal government has a certain number of people that they allow to legally migrate from different regions. We need to get the illegals out so we can see how many we need, and let them apply and come here without lowering wages for the lower tier workers.
As simple as this sounds, the government would never implement anything like this for two reasons. First, we don’t have any politicians with the balls to try anything like this. Second, there are many other ways that this would affect the US in a negative way.
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Post by ktpfromlap on May 19, 2010 9:15:49 GMT -5
There is a place in our society for a certain number of these people. Low paid migrant workers have been in the Agriculture Industry for decades, thats what keeps your produce prices fairly low. Believe you me, we are paying more for our low priced, illegal immigrant picked produce than you think. Just because you aren't paying a lot for your produce doesn't mean you aren't paying a lot. These illegal immigrants are taking their pay and sending it back to their countries of origin, so it is being taken out of circulation here. They are going to our hospitals and getting free care. They are utilizing a lot of our tax payer based dollars for many free social programs available to them. So, believe you me, we are paying dearly for that "low cost" produce... |
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Post by marcus on May 19, 2010 16:44:04 GMT -5
Right on KTPfromLAP
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2010 11:06:50 GMT -5
NO! They are here illegally and they are criminals because they broke the law by doing this. There are proper ways of coming here legally, they chose to break the law. They are working here tax free causing more economic havoc then what its worth. They come here and crap their kids out on US soil so they become welfare recipients ASAP. And not to mention all the drugs that come across the border as well. I say, send every last one of them back, after they all have been finger printed, photographed, and if they want to come back here, they go through the proper channels. And most importantly "LEARN TO SPEAK FUCKING ENGLISH!" My family learned to speak/read English within the first year they arrived in the US and there is no reason why these people shouldn't learn to speak and read it as well. And fine the shit out of companys that use illegals here in the US as well. Well SPOKEN!!! Thank you! |
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?? Until that question is answered and coals are put to their feet to elicit needed changes, nothing is going to change.