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Post by TonyV on May 21, 2010 1:05:16 GMT -5
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Post by bo862 on May 21, 2010 8:40:10 GMT -5
" move to exempt auto dealers from the purview of the proposed new consumer protection regulator."
Sounds like a hole for the bankers to continue to use predatory lending in a small part of the market.
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Post by jobs1stb4polarbear on May 21, 2010 19:52:10 GMT -5
NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE INGENUITY OF COMPLETE FOOLS
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. - Douglas Adams
Lord, what fools these mortals be. - Shakespeare, A Midsummer Nights Dream
The ultimate way to make bank safety “fool-resistant” is to increase market discipline. One reason that allowing failure is such an important attribute of markets is that it helps eliminate “fools” from positions of responsibility. Many of the fools who thought they could bet their companies on ever-increasing house prices are not out of work.
Sadly, we are still stuck with many of the same failed regulators. The Dodd bill also fails in this regard: Instead of punishing agencies like the SEC or the Fed, Dodd expands their power, rewarding “foolishness.” What fucking idiots! What fucking democrat idiots!
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Post by jobs1stb4polarbear on Jun 2, 2010 18:05:54 GMT -5
The problem, it seems to me, is that by its very nature, democracy must suffer fools [relatively] gladly; particularly those fools who happen to be elected by an imperfect populace.
Human nature is what it is--oftimes extremely foolish. There is no way to "foolproof" the markets and take away this reality. One of the nice things, though, about capitalism is that, unlike socialism or communism etc, it does not have to change human nature in order to work, and thus, it is fairly fool-resistant, compared to those economic systems that actually reward foolish behavior, or even encourage it.
When the markets are allowed to work, without the continuous interference of fools, then those who are not foolish are rewarded, while those who are must take their lumps. Reality is frequently an ungentle teacher, but if you are capable of learning from it, the average human foolishness quotient will diminish under its tutelage.
When it comes to understanding human nature, the left and their do-gooder utopian fantasies get failing marksMarx. They have this persistent fantasy that human nature is 'perfectable'; and that by some "magical" means, i.e., by the implementation of their 'perfect' ideology, they will be able to make people behave in some 'perfect' fashion.
Sadly, such delusional hallucinations about human nature always end in misery, suffering and even death for large numbers of us imperfect homo sapiens . No matter how many times this happens, the die-hard Marxists, communists, socialists and all their variants and heirs keep trying force humans into some "ideal" state.
In the annals of human foolishness, the left's foolishness is beyond parody, but their ingenuity should never be underestimated.
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Post by kessinger on Jun 14, 2010 13:42:49 GMT -5
Where do you get the belief that you don't have to change human nature to make capitalism work? We have seen many times through our history were one human trait GREED has ruined a solid capitalistic market. Great Depression, S@L's, current recession, BP oil spill. The problem with our current capitalism system is that when it comes time to pay the piper those that earned the most from the system aren't the ones that pay the price. Enron for example. Who paid the price for that scam? The small investors mostly. Pension funds. The people that had no control over Enron paid the biggest price. Sure the top execs paychecks stopped rolling in but what did they care they were already wealthy.
Polar says we should have let the banks fall, if we had who pays that price? Not the bank execs, they are still fat and happy. Those that had their money in those banks would be the one to pay the price. Those unfortunate enough to NOT be Enron execs.
The oil spill. That whole mess will cost the little people way more than it will the BP execs that pushed the corner cutting. BP may lose alot of money, but the BP execs still get paid and still have the millions they already earned. Why wouldn't they cut corners, their is no personal price to be paid for not doing so. The problem with a pure capitalist market is that there is no accountability for those that abuse the system. It encourages many to get it while the getting is good and leave the mess for someone else. Thats why the markets and business need to be regulated. History proves that again and again.
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Post by jobs1stb4polarbear on Jun 14, 2010 17:35:43 GMT -5
WTF!! You name me one nation that doesn't run on greed? You are a greedy bastard and you dont even know it! Greed is what makes the world go round!
Greed is why humanity today is freer, healthier and more comfortable than it’s ever been. Nearly every significant innovation, invention or improvement that man has so far come up with resulted from the innovator, the inventor or the improver’s desire to better his own condition, or, put differently, to get more stuff. It is greed and the want of stuff that drives us to work longer hours, to build better mousetraps, and to take the kinds of risks that shake up the marketplace, and move the whole system forward.
Today, biotech firms are figuring out ways to feed the world’s hungry by producing more food on less land with less water, less nutrients and less need for pesticides. If governments would get out of the way, they’ll probably succeed. But they won’t succeed because they’re good people selflessly working for free to eradicate world hunger; they’ll succeed because the scientists doing the research want the peer recognition, the place in history, and the acclaim and financial rewards that come with figuring out how to do something we already do better. They’ll succeed because the CEOs of those firms want the bonuses, clout, and approval of boards of directors that come with a company’s success.
And they’ll do it because the shareholders have invested money in those companies on the expectation of the windfall that might come to the first company that, for example, can figure out how to genetically insert a typhoid vaccine into a sorghum plant.
This is all motivated by greed. But if the result is muscular crops that lead to fewer hungry people in the world, does it really matter if the motivator that led to those crops was greed or benevolence?
Let me give you a real world example. It was revealed through divorce proceedings that former General Electric CEO Jack Welch was recipient of all sorts of lavish perks that even thee most ardent capitalist would have to concede were a little ridiculous. The revelation only confirmed the biases of those already critical of Welch, who began his tenure at GE by laying off close to 100,000 people, and whose management style put, to borrow a phrase, “profits over people.” Welch has never been accused of fraud or deceit -- he’s no Ken Lay. But rather, Welch for some has come to epitomize the excesses of capitalism, profiteering and greed.
On the far-other end of the spectrum is Aaron Feuerstein Feuerstein was CEO of the Malden Mills company, a clothing outfitter in Massachusetts. In 1995, three of Malden Mills’ main factories burned to the ground. Feuerstein vowed not only to rebuild those factories, he vowed to rebuild them in a manner that was more worker-friendly and more environmentally friendly than the previous plants, no matter the cost. Feuerstein also vowed to continue to pay his 3,000 workers at full salary until those plants were rebuilt.
Feuerstein was beatified by media and politicians everywhere for his good deed. He got a seat at Bill Clinton’s State of the Union address. He was awarded honorary degrees from universities across the country. He was flatteringly profiled on 60 Minutes.
In November of 2001, Malden Mills declared bankruptcy. Feuerstein’s vow to rebuild the company’s factories on borrowed money while continuing to pay every employee ran Malden Mills into the ground. His benevolence nearly cost 3,000 people their livelihood. Instead of short-term hardship endured while the factories were rebuilt, those people nearly lost their jobs completely.
I say “nearly” because there’s a somewhat happy ending to the story. Malden Mills was saved, thanks in part to a last-minute investment by an outfit called GE Capital. GE Capital is of course owned by General Electric, a company that under the “ruthless” leadership of Jack Welch grew from a maker of refrigerators into the kind of multinational behemoth that can spin off venture capital subsidiaries, which can then invest in struggling companies like Malden Mills.
I’m sure the 100,000 or so people Jack Welch laid off to streamline GE in the early 1980s still don’t think much of him. But his leadership eventually replaced those jobs several times over.
And the 1,200 people who work at Malden Mills today owe their jobs not to Aaron Feuerstein's kindness but to Jack Welch's greed.
YES, polar wants banks to fail...if they can't run a business fuck'em, and if BP goes into bunkruptcy fuck'em...everyone just learned a lesson from BP.....what is that you say, well the its a risky fucking business and you should think twice before investing in it!....... is the nature of the game....GREED..... and Kesinger,dont come back crying at me...."well polar its not a game its people jobs,lives,etc".... polar say fuck'em....there is a risk for everything we do(invest,money in your bank, jobs).... fuck, I could crash tomorrow going to work, but a still have to go to work, why, because i want money(im a greedy bastard)........once again, you can not change human nature, GREED...
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Post by kessinger on Jun 16, 2010 9:38:37 GMT -5
You love to twist things. I claimed greed is human nature. Meaning me also. YOU are the one that claimed capitlaism doesnt require anyone to change human nature. YET IT DOES. For it to work properly people have to reign in their greed before it reaches the point it destroys the economy.
YOU claimed capitalism is the only economy that didn't require a change in human nature. History proves otherwise, At no point did I say Greed didn't drive people including me, or drive a good economy. But, you don't realy care what I said, just what you can twist it to mean.
Jack Welch checked his Greed for the good of GE. He made millions but he could have taken much much more from GE if he wished, everyone knows he could have. He decided it was more important to leave GE stable as to leaving GE as wealthy as possible. That is why there is alot to be learned from him.
In America we are free to do as we wish as long as what we wish doesn't harm others. The actions of BP and JP Morgan crossed that line in our freedom. That is the flaw in a free market. I know you will never agree, you will always come down on the side of the poor down trodden multinational corporation. They do indeed need your help.
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