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Post by ScottR@KTP on Nov 23, 2010 4:24:44 GMT -5
I would not advise anyone to bid on the body shop relief jobs that are up this week. KTP found a way to ruin this job as well. These used to be retirement jobs at LAP...they should go to the youngest people by default at KTP. I have been trying to give mine up for months...I wish they would change openings on C crew bid to 3 and replace me. I may go the route of getting written up 3x to lose it if I can't get Brad Stewart to take it away from me.
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Nov 23, 2010 4:26:06 GMT -5
But why were these jobs posted on a 3 day work week?
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Post by kkenn on Nov 23, 2010 6:06:34 GMT -5
Why is this job bad? Is it worse than being tied to a line in trim or chassis? I've encouraged others to get to body shop when they can. The average line worker in body seems to have much more time. With all the robots, body shop has a lot of down time.
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Post by marcus on Nov 23, 2010 9:06:17 GMT -5
This place sucks there still needs to be good jobs for people when they start getting over 20 years in.You cant work the line for 30 years our union needs to step up.
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Post by nvsked1 on Nov 23, 2010 17:10:58 GMT -5
This place sucks there still needs to be good jobs for people when they start getting over 20 years in.You cant work the line for 30 years our union needs to step up. 20 yrs....The company doesn't want you content in the job you're doing, which explains the ass hole supervisors. They hope you fall out, retire quit etc sooner they can hire that lower wage person |
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Nov 23, 2010 17:16:02 GMT -5
Why is this job bad? Is it worse than being tied to a line in trim or chassis? I've encouraged others to get to body shop when they can. The average line worker in body seems to have much more time. With all the robots, body shop has a lot of down time. It's not worse than trim/chassis, but I would much rather have a job in body than a relief. As you pointed out, when you have a job in body...it doesn't get much better than that. There is more work involved with being a relief man. Management has no idea how to leave you alone and simply allow you to do your job. The bids that are up...they actually only tag about 60-70% of the time at best. When you're not tagging, you're the first one loaned out...regardless of seniority. Tagging 60% of the time is still better than being in trim/chassis, no doubt. I am only trying to help people with some honest info. My tag was changed this week...my tag consists of 20-20 minute reliefs...do the math...20x20=400 minutes. I lose @ 15 minutes each route due to the area which my tag covers. So if I do everything on my new tag, I will be done at 7:10am...the shift ends at 7am. But I was told that our building chairman was even involved in getting this approved...LMAO. There was only one reason to ever want a relief...leaving early. Now they don't even give me enough time to take a break, but don't expect them to pay me for it either. Add to the fact these bids are in the area of one of the most immature and inconsiderate supervisors ever...the only way in which he knows to manage is by being a bully. So to sum up my experiences as a relief man at KTP kkenn...nearly a year of being paid incorrectly (which was recently fixed), 6 months of doing a tag which didn't mirror the other two shifts (which was fixed), working in an environment in which a supervisor feels it's their daily duty to bring the morale down of as many employees as possible to make himself feel better (don't ever see this changing), it's just not worth it.  Bid at your own risk! |
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Post by marcus on Nov 23, 2010 18:04:58 GMT -5
100 percent on our union,things need to change and new people put in.
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Post by kessinger on Nov 23, 2010 19:06:21 GMT -5
Scott, if they claimed the chairman was involved, why didn't you call him and ask him? If they aren't giving you time for your relief and breaks call me and we will figure out what they are Fing up.
As Scott said, the one bad part of relief in body is that it is on and off, and they don't run well or bad enough for them to be consistant. But it is still a world better than final.
Marcus there are loads of good jobs, including relief. IQ, subsystems, MOD, repair..............
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Post by kkenn on Nov 23, 2010 19:07:47 GMT -5
Body relief "sounds" like it would be a dream job. Guess you don't know 'til you're there. Scott, keep checking that board. You've got enough time to get a descent job soon. Be careful about getting disqualified.
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Post by kessinger on Nov 23, 2010 20:26:44 GMT -5
This is what I got regarding your relief:
1. VIN TAG
2. SKID LOAD
3. HYDRAFORM
4. ROOF BOW
5. BACKPANEL
6. STUFFER
7. LIFTGATE
8. TACO TUBE
9. (HIM/HERSELF)
Total time available in a shift 390 minutes, or 6.5 X 60
Total time needed in a shift to complete relief 360 minutes, or 9 x 40
That leaves 30 min for walk time, 15 for each half of relief.
This takes out 1 hours for start up and 30min (which would be 30 min after lunch).
*************
Now there is some argument about hydro form being a one or two man job but that is still only one relief for you to do. So are they having you do more jobs than are listed here?
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Nov 23, 2010 21:24:49 GMT -5
This is what I got regarding your relief: 1. VIN TAG 2. SKID LOAD 3. HYDRAFORM 4. ROOF BOW 5. BACKPANEL 6. STUFFER 7. LIFTGATE 8. TACO TUBE 9. (HIM/HERSELF) Total time available in a shift 390 minutes, or 6.5 X 60 Total time needed in a shift to complete relief 360 minutes, or 9 x 40 That leaves 30 min for walk time, 15 for each half of relief. This takes out 1 hours for start up and 30min (which would be 30 min after lunch). ************* Now there is some argument about hydro form being a one or two man job but that is still only one relief for you to do. So are they having you do more jobs than are listed here? New routine to be followed by all 3 shifts: hydroform skid load vin tag taco tube lift gate stuffer back panel roof bow myself shoot ball studs on hydro for 20 minutes REPEAT That is 10-20 minute stops...X2...400 minutes...plus 30 minutes walk time = 430 minutes...start at midnight...what time will I finish??? |
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Nov 23, 2010 21:27:41 GMT -5
As for why I don't call union...I have just about gave up on that as a resource. I now visit Joe Bobnar's office when I have a problem. Mr. Bobnar is supposed to be getting involved with my situation...especially seeking an answer to my question: Why would a supervisor which I filed a complaint against be put right back in my area 1.5 weeks after my case was closed?
I am not going to call the buidling chairman and ask if he bought off on my tag...at this point, I could care less, I just want off of it.
I plan on talking to Brad soon to see if he can help in any way,.
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Nov 23, 2010 21:40:27 GMT -5
Scott, if they claimed the chairman was involved, why didn't you call him and ask him? If they aren't giving you time for your relief and breaks call me and we will figure out what they are Fing up. As Scott said, the one bad part of relief in body is that it is on and off, and they don't run well or bad enough for them to be consistant. But it is still a world better than final. Marcus there are loads of good jobs, including relief. IQ, subsystems, MOD, repair.............. The only thing I will say in response to this...body shop may be better with workloads, etc... but workloads are not everything. If you are in an area where your morale is not attacked and you work around good people...stay put. One of the best areas I have worked in at KTP has been the frame line. Most of the sups understood how to create a productive work environment. In body, it's easy for management to get bored...and many times they come after the employee to get over their boredom or pathetic existence. When I was on the door/deck/hood fit team, I had some great co-workers as well...but management had no idea how to boost worker morale. That should have been my hint about body shop management...I am the only one to blame for bidding into body. |
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Post by marcus on Nov 23, 2010 23:43:55 GMT -5
Come on scott 30 min walk time is your break.
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Post by kessinger on Nov 24, 2010 0:08:33 GMT -5
Scott, why would you not shoot ball studs in the 1.5 hours you can't relieve? Are they having you do something else during that time? Since its not a relief, but a buildup you can do it during the times you can't relieve? Unless they have you doing soemtihng. You start at 11. So why would you not do ball studs during the first hour of your shift instead of later in the shift during your go home break time? Am I missing something?
And as far as the supervisor being put back. How was that the unions fault? You didn't bring that issue to us, you took it to Bobnar. They then put him back?
You don't have to goto the chairman. I just figured you would at least ask him before you dropped him in on an issue like it was FACT without verifying that what you were told was TRUE. Guess not.
As always if you have an issue you are welcome to call. As far as I know, everything you asked me to help with I did. I offered to help, you wanted to handle this last issue on your own, which I can respect. But, I just don't know how the union is at fault when you didn't want us involved. I realize you hate the union here at KTP, I just don't understand WHY you hate the union here at KTP.
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Nov 24, 2010 1:27:16 GMT -5
Scott, why would you not shoot ball studs in the 1.5 hours you can't relieve? I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT 1.5 HOURS YOU ARE REFERRING TO? I AM SHOOTING BALL STUDS THE FIRST HOUR (WHICH ARE HARDLY ANY BECAUSE THERE ARE NONE TO SHOOT AND THE FORK USUALLY WON'T BRING THEM TIL ALMOST MIDNIGHT WHEN IT IS TIME TO START MY TAG. Are they having you do something else during that time? Since its not a relief, but a buildup you can do it during the times you can't relieve? WHAT TIMES ARE YOU REFERRING TO? I STARTED MY TAG AT MIDNIGHT AND DIDN'T STOP WORKING UNTIL 633AM. WE DO NOT GO TO LUNCH...THERE IS NO DOWNTIME BETWEEN ROTATIONS...NEVER HAS BEEN. Unless they have you doing soemtihng. You start at 11. So why would you not do ball studs during the first hour of your shift instead of later in the shift during your go home break time? Am I missing something? YOU CAN ONLY SHOO :T BALL STUDS WHEN STOCK IS PRESENT WITHOUT THEM. MAYBE THE STOCK DOES NO T ARRIVE BEFORE ONE OR TWO SOME NIGHTS . And a s far as the supervisor being put back. How was that the unions fault? You didn't bring that issue to us, you took it to Bobnar. They then put him back? THEY PUT HIM BACK PRIOR TO ME VISITING BOBNAR...THAT WAS THE REASON OF MY VISIT. You don't have to goto the chairman. I just figured you would at least ask him before you dropped him in on an issue like it was FACT without verifying that what you were told was TRUE. Guess not. HONESTLY DOES NOT MATTER TO ME ONE WAY OR NOT BUT SOMEONE TOLD ME HE WAS INVOLVED IN SETTING UP MY NEW ROTATION...AND I BELIEVE IT TO BE FACT. As always if you have an issue you are welcome to call. As far as I know, everything you asked me to help with I did. I offered to help, you wanted to handle this last issue on your own, RODNEY J WALKED ME THROUGH MY INITIAL FILING AND HELPED TREMENDOUSLY. which I can respect. But, I just don't know how the union is at fault when you didn't want us involved. I realize you hate the union here at KTP, DON'T HATE THE UNION AT KTP. I just don't understand WHY you hate the union here at KTP. I DON'T KNOW WHERE TO BEGIN TO EXPLAIN TO YOU WHY MANY FIND LAP SO MUCH BETTER THAN KTP...ASK AROUND...THERE HAS TO BE MANY REASONS AS TO WHY LAP OFFERS A BETTER WORK ENVIRONMENT THAN HERE AT KTP. IT'S WEIRD HOW LINE WORKERS, SKILLED TRADES, AND EVEN BOSSES PREFER LAP. caps were for u to see my responses...i promise i am not yelling.  |
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Post by 30yearpace on Nov 24, 2010 7:55:21 GMT -5
Scott is right about the morale. I've been in body for 12 years and most of the supervisors are jerks now. No one wants to stand up to the supervisors and most people are afraid to do anything for fear of getting wrote -up. Also as of late "favoritism" gets you special deals from the supervisors.
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Post by kessinger on Nov 24, 2010 17:27:01 GMT -5
So it is clear, I agree with everyone on the Morale issue. It seems to be at all time lows. But, no one can give me the reasons they feel that way. It is hard to fix something when you can't identify the why. Thats for us to try to figure out, just not and easy thing to identify.
There is definatly a big difference in body supervisors from one crew to the next. Even their bosses agree, just need help thru statements to fix those that need fixing. Seems to be worse on the boxline side of the shop.
As always, if I can help let me know, I will be glad to do what i can.
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Post by nvsked1 on Nov 24, 2010 21:24:39 GMT -5
So it is clear, I agree with everyone on the Morale issue. It seems to be at all time lows. But, no one can give me the reasons they feel that way. It is hard to fix something when you can't identify the why. Thats for us to try to figure out, just not and easy thing to identify. As always, if I can help let me know, I will be glad to do what i can. Respect....Years ago supervisors would say I need you to do this.... any problems let me know and WE will work them out..... Today if you can't do the job we'll get rid of you and get someone who can do it!! Over the years, supervisors pay was cut, they reduced the number of supervisors, added work to them etc....and the people who made the cut, through that period of attrition, made it because they had the aggressive qualities upper management wanted. So you have about 60% of the management team that wants to kick ass and take names!! Don't go to labor, you are guilty till proven innocent. Add to the mix, varying degree's of efficiency for the union rep's and you have a work force with morale issues IMHO I've seen some issues where I questioned who the union rep was representing ...the supervisor or the UAW member....NOT THROWING STONES HERE YOU ASKED THE QUESTION I'M GIVING MY 2 CENTS AND...I have a lot of respect for you Kess, no one makes you come on here and be involved.... These issues didn't occur over night, so it'll take time and hard work to correct....Unfortunately |
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Post by marcus on Nov 24, 2010 22:36:45 GMT -5
Moral is all time low for sure.We as line workers dont have much say so in anything anymore.Used to we had imput into our jobs being setup now its NO sit downs to talk about it,its you do this or else.Then if you miss one part on your job in almost two years they write you up and doc your pay a few tenths.Plus bosses working all the time when they have no union card and if you turn the boss in they take it out on you in other ways or try to blackmail you.They mess with you on trying to get time off and on and on.
They can now add work to you anytime they want not just when a new model comes out.We have jobs that hurt people and our OWN health guy told me that Ford figures how many people the job will hurt VS what it costs to fix it right.On and on and on
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Post by pickle on Nov 25, 2010 11:06:28 GMT -5
I relieved for12 years in body it used to be that the first hour you were left alone to do some minor stocking in your area / team.The same for the half hour after lunch . Heavy truck tag was like that as well. Saw this from my relief guy out there is why I took bid.And you went home when your route was done in the afternoon. If wanted to work every minute I was there I might as well be on the line and on a shift I really preferred.Walk time was 20 min. first break and 10 min. second.These were the perks of the job so I worked nites.No perks and you are working the line and it is not a worthy bid job IMHO.I am happy on days and chuckled when I saw the bids.Any thoughts Kess I know you relieved well you told me you did. Thanks. Scotts thoughts on relief are what the jobs were. Not what they are. Beware !!!!!
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Post by marcus on Nov 25, 2010 12:01:05 GMT -5
I had relief at LAP and it was as pickle says.
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Post by driveshaftgrunt on Nov 25, 2010 12:33:06 GMT -5
I had relief at KTP on frame......It was the same deal.
You stocked up before your route, and every now and then, you might have to cover somebody or help out somewhere. Nothing major. When you were done with your route, you'd make sure everything was kosher and go home.....or let someone leave for their time, extra $......
But I have no doubt things are MUCH different today depending on the supervision...
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Post by Ironman2301 on Nov 25, 2010 20:33:43 GMT -5
I had relief at KTP on frame......It was the same deal. You stocked up before your route, and every now and then, you might have to cover somebody or help out somewhere. Nothing major. When you were done with your route, you'd make sure everything was kosher and go home.....or let someone leave for their time, extra $...... But I have no doubt things are MUCH different today depending on the supervision... I did the same this when I was in Excursion!! |
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Post by kessinger on Nov 29, 2010 23:40:43 GMT -5
Yes I did relieve in Body. As Grunt and Ironman said we always had a light buildup we were supposed to do at start of shift and during the 30 minutes after lunch. Now most of us did very little of that building up and most supervisors could care less if you did it or not, they definatly weren't gonna spend any time trying to catch you not doing it. I think this may be where that difference has come in. As i stated earlier there is a HUGE difference in the line supervisors from shift to shift in Body. You have a few that spend their time trying to find someone to write up. Maybe it makes them feel important.
We will keep trying to fix some of the morale issues. But I ask for your help, If you feel something is not right, if it is a standards issue or an ergo issue or whatever. Please don't just write it off as MOA or no one cares. If you feel something is still wrong please call me, Al, Rodney, or Scott. These are your Jobs, you have to be here everyday. Take the time to get a second opinion if you don't trust the first answer you get. We don't mind getting involved. And lets be honest if you have a union rep. you haven't had alot of dealings with, its the smart thing to double check them just to make sure they know what they are talking about, thats how you build trust in them. MOST DO know their shit, but if they gave you an honest answer they have nothing to fear by you getting a second opinion.
Grunt, I SOOOOO miss letting people go home and getting paid for it. Man I made some good money back then.
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