|
|
Post by ScottR@KTP on Mar 27, 2011 10:57:37 GMT -5
I noticed something quite disturbing in the CJ today...our suppliers pay more than FoMoCo is gonna be paying the new hires. This shows how ridiculous the two tier pay scale is gonna be...if the suppliers pay a higher hourly rate...why doesn't our union demand insourcing? Why not pay our new hires to do the work in-house instead of paying suppliers more? It's time to bring back work...it's time for FoMoCo to reconsider outsourcing when they can pay new hires $14/hour. Doing this in-house vs. the cost of shipping the parts alone...where is the simple logic?
Martinrea $17.28/hour + benefits
Magna $16.10/hour + benefits
Faurecia $17.78/hour + benefits
Piston $17.77/hour + benefits
It used to be our suppliers complaining about their pay being less than half of ours...now they make more than the new hires at FoMoCo. I'm not sure I would be trying to get a job at FoMoCo...make sure you put applications in at these companies as well.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2011 11:29:33 GMT -5
just wait til they start hiring!! i cant imagine who would keep the job for the new hire in rate. you can go to work somewhere else for a dollar or two less and have better everything.how many supervisors even speak spanish?im not hating,but also, im not joking either.
|
|
|
|
Post by Mark Thomas on Mar 27, 2011 12:11:53 GMT -5
I`m only guessing here, but who would they {FOMOCO} have to blame. Not that it`s true, but have always heard the supplier was charged down time when there is a shortage or a defective part(s). I am all for the in house work, but I dono if we`ll ever see it back ....
|
|
|
|
Post by PUNISHER on Mar 27, 2011 14:31:11 GMT -5
scott....you forget.....simple logic & FoMoCo do NOT go together!!....lmao
|
|
|
|
Post by lappainter on Mar 27, 2011 14:39:10 GMT -5
If some of the in house jobs would be easier than the line and other jobs, then let those go to bids for Senior employees and lesser employees can bid on the open jobs and new hires can be place on the line. That wouldn't be bad for someone with high seniority. But again, if this makes too much sense we know Ford won't go with it.
|
|
|
|
Post by kingofalldans on Mar 27, 2011 15:38:48 GMT -5
Wow Scott I would be covering all these companies with Apps. I do see a high turnover with our two tier scale, but also I see hundreds if not thousands of people trying to get in the door. Don't these people reach top pay after 5 years?
|
|
|
|
Post by ScottR@KTP on Mar 27, 2011 16:01:41 GMT -5
Top pay after 5 years? Who are you referring to? If you are referring to the two tier new hires for FoMoCo...they remain at the lower wage until the 2nd tier group reaches 21%...once they reach anything over 20%...they move up to our wages. So with that in mind, how long will it take them to get to our wages? My guess...the very first ones hired, @ 15 years. They get to hire them until they reach 20% of our workforce...with that being said, no major retirements until 2018-2022...at that point, almost 10,000 have to retire before the 1st new hire will go to our wage rate. But, you have to know that each and every contract, FoMoCo will ask for 'more percentage'...that 20% will be 21%, then 22%, and so on...but we can never allow them to get to 25%...at 25%, they can have too big of an effect on any and all votes/elections if the senior people continue to not vote in numbers the way they do now.
|
|
|
|
Post by trinitus on Mar 27, 2011 16:05:07 GMT -5
Ok if I am rong ,well it won't be the first time.
New hire pay scale is $14.00 an hou, won't go into detail about bennies since thier's will be different than ours. Now after What someone said five years (could be less) they are topped off at $20.00 an hour. In theory at least as we leave the new hires go to full pay scale (based on hire in date), but the bennies do not change. So yes they make less than us as they hire in but they go to $20.00 an hour the longer they stay here. Which is why it would make sense for Ford to keep all work outsourced because in the long run it would benefit them.
|
|
|
|
Post by TonyV on Mar 27, 2011 16:57:40 GMT -5
Two- tier workers start at $14.20/hr and top out at $15.34/hr. They are already being used in CAP. I expect to see TPT(Temp Workers) in every plant just like Toyota. Then they will see who gets hired as permanent two-tier. Lots of turn over in the near future.
|
|
|
|
Post by ktpelec on Mar 27, 2011 19:35:03 GMT -5
It would be a great to get that work back but Ford would have to invest millions building facilities, our stamping plant is maxed out now, where would we stock all the parts and assemble them? Seats, bumpers, IPs, ect, thats a lot of investment. Ford isn't going to do that when they don't have to and the Union has no leverage to make them.
|
|
buddy
New Member
Posts: 5
|
Post by buddy on Mar 27, 2011 23:29:12 GMT -5
Well I dont know where the Newspaper got it numbers but I can tell you the ones for Martinrea are wrong. Full time employees make 15 dollars an hour with crappy benefits and new hires will make 10 dollars an hour. I believe our all in number is around 20 dollars an hour
|
|
|
|
Post by ScottR@KTP on Mar 28, 2011 6:08:59 GMT -5
Wouldn't be the first time the CJ was wrong...thanks for some clarity.
|
|
|
|
Post by kbrundag on Mar 28, 2011 13:09:19 GMT -5
Hey, times are tough for some folks... I have people asking me about Ford hiring. I'll tell you what, at $14 dollars an hour, people will be waiting in line out the door. Once they actually spend a week on the assembly line, I believe there will be a line going right back out that door. But, the truth is, anyone willing to hire in and work at that rate is doing it for the futue, for better wages and benefits.
Ford is certainly going through changes, there are alot of people willing to go through those changes as well. A fat paycheck and the UAW has our ungrateful asses so spoiled, we forget that there are people out there willing to shovel shit for what we have...
|
|
|
|
Post by lucero on Mar 29, 2011 3:50:18 GMT -5
I never forget, I have done a lot of shitty jobs for a lot less money!
|
|
|
|
Post by rocketman on Mar 29, 2011 4:23:00 GMT -5
I think if some of these plants belong to some kind of union, they will, also, go to a 2-tier pay system. I just hope we don't go into a double-recession. It's been speculated that the housing industry is going that way again. 1-8 homes in the USA are vacant.
|
|
|
|
Post by kessinger on Mar 29, 2011 6:59:03 GMT -5
Ok, the two tier pay system was set up for the exact purpose of bringing work back in. It actualy even has provisions for that. (don't kill the messenger here, I have reservations about this also).
First off the work force does have a starting cap of 20% once we hit the 20% number, then each time we have a retriment, buyout, death, or quit the most senior second tier person in the nation would then become a full paid employee. The bennies would not equal ours but their pay would. For that reason I don't worry about us losing hourly wages, since a person would be taking from their own future. But, at some point it could be an issue for other types of bennies
Now, the cap loophole. They can go over the cap by a number equal to the amount of people it takes to do insourced work. For eample. IF we had the room we could probably get the IP line back. If it took 25 people to build the IP's we brought back in house, then they could go over the national 20% cap by 25 people. These people would still be in seniority order to become full paid employees but the cap would be bigger.
That is part of bargianing. When times start getting better and we have 6,000 second tier employees then the union can use the power of that block of workers to try to raise their pay and benefits.
I feel a little like a hypocrite here. Back in 96 at one of our contract readings i got up and bitched about us getting the new hire rate. But, being the person that tries to bring work into this plant. I know that the only way we would ever get agreements to insource would be to go two tier. Once the public beat us up over the GEN pool and lost it. We now have no job loss protection. It always bothered me when we were getting kicked that no one explained what GEN was originaly for.
Gettlefinger should have said the GEN was there to penalize companies for taking jobs out of America. Since congress sits on it ass on this issue, we addressed it by making a company pay and American to do nothing as a penalty for giving that job to a foriegner. but we never got that. We just got called lazy by congress.
So the question then became where do we go from here. I can tell you from personal experience that if two tier had been around one contract earlier we would be building IP's here again, as well as some other parts. They want alot of this back under their control. We have all been witness to down time due to vendors and most of our quality issues are vendor related.
So is the two tier system perfect. Nope. Do i wish our country didn't expect workers to make less and less and for CEO's to make more and more. Oh hell yes. But in our current political climate that just isn't so. When people hear what we make an hour they get pissed off, yet when they hear what some CEO makes, they just wish they were in his shoes. Odd, the American people have the power to put every worker in OUR shoes. Yet they just want to get pissed about it.
The CEO of Oracle makes something like $15,000 and hour 24 hours a day even when he's sleeping. Yet you ask the average Fox news viewer they will tell you WE don't earn OUR money. How do you earn $15K and hour.
Ok, sorry for the off topic rant.
|
|
|
|
Post by classof95 on Mar 29, 2011 11:42:38 GMT -5
Thanks for the two-tier explanation Kess. I've had a couple people ask me about how to get hired and have tried to explain the new pay system and how it will work. So this helps. Will we have any way of trying to help people get their foot in the door when the hiring starts again? I guess we should be expecting some new hires at KTP to backfill the people going back to LAP? I think LimBaugh hates us more than Fox News ever did btw.
|
|
|
|
Post by kessinger on Mar 29, 2011 20:09:27 GMT -5
You ever change what you were going to write because you couldn't spell it? That is exactly why said Fox. Fox i can spell, i wanted to say limbaugh but wasn't sure that was right. lol.
I can tell you app's will go through the unemployment office. Ford has adopted a new policy on how they want to do the hiring. We should get to hire from references from the membership. The question is what percentage of hires will come from those references.
As everything is here, its an argument.
Also on the ford home page on the computers at work it has an article saying they will in source 2100 jobs before 2012. If its still on there tommorow I will try to post it.
|
|
|
|
Post by marcus on Mar 30, 2011 12:14:53 GMT -5
I cant spell worth a crap myself Kess hehe
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2011 12:34:44 GMT -5
im glad they are going to hire from the unemployment office. thats how i got my job. even tho i have several relatives working at ford none of them would give me one of their apps.they all had someone else ahead of me. guess what. all those people they did help either failed the drug test or no longer work there. im still here.the last time we hired temps from friends and relatives they were walking out the door at $20 an hour. hire people that want to work. thats what we need,not someones brother who just wants a foot in the door then go on medical.
|
|
|
|
Post by jefflebowski on Mar 30, 2011 13:13:10 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by ScottR@KTP on Mar 30, 2011 15:20:12 GMT -5
There was an article in the CJ about this today...scary shit. I know we should all want more jobs, but at what cost? The UAW is being quoted as saying, "we are all for allowing up to 40% of a plant being new wage workers as long as it helps open factories"...wtf??? Does this go against the 20% company wide rule or are they helping GM/Chrysler avoid bringing in workers that are idle...and instead allowing them to hire new workers at the reduced wages? The whole thing sounds screwy to me, but I am a very negative person.  |
|
|
|
Post by pmooret on Mar 30, 2011 18:23:05 GMT -5
These workers won't even be able to afford the product that they make.
|
|
