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Post by kessinger on Oct 6, 2011 10:53:39 GMT -5
So many questions and yet no answer's. Don't get me wrong Kess, you have done a great job on here before and I feel you will give us answer's but I think this time most of those elected to the office of the Union will have one hell of a time trying to sell this one. VOTE NO!!!!!
Answer-- I have no desire to sell you. As i have with every contract , even those I had a hand in writting, I want the membership to decide. But in order for them to make an informed decision they need a place to get answers that they can trust. I am trying to provide that. I will try to keep it opinion free, but that is hard. If I do post my opinion it will be on other threads.
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Post by kessinger on Oct 6, 2011 10:56:24 GMT -5
Why are they paying us half of our profit sharing for next year now if the agreement "Stands on it's own"? (Bob King's words)
Answer--Well this is clearly being used to get votes.
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Post by dozerman on Oct 6, 2011 10:56:34 GMT -5
will the ones on ilo that have run out of sub and tap money , start getting sub money again ?
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Post by kessinger on Oct 6, 2011 10:58:55 GMT -5
Ford stated in the media that they would create 5750 jobs.(Down from an earlier 7500 estimate)
Why does the highlights show 12,000 jobs? Is this Obama math? 12,000 saved but not really created?
Answer- its about 7500 the differnce is that with plant closings and other things that number comes down. SO it will be 12,000 new jobs but that number will be lower by loss of old one like twin city.
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Post by kessinger on Oct 6, 2011 11:00:44 GMT -5
Is 30 and out protected in this contract? Does this proposal open the door to eliminate pensions? Does it alter pensions in any way?
Yes 30 and out is still in tact. Nothing changed with pension excpet that the xmas bonus was not renewed for this contract.
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Post by kessinger on Oct 6, 2011 11:11:21 GMT -5
FORGIVE MY SPELLING SOME OF THESE IM DOING ON THE FLY!!!
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Post by kessinger on Oct 6, 2011 11:14:59 GMT -5
will the ones on ilo that have run out of sub and tap money , start getting sub money again ?
Answer-- Yes your weeks will be replenished from the way it was explained, and reads.
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Post by kessinger on Oct 6, 2011 11:20:36 GMT -5
The reason you are not seeing certain things in there like "definition of entry level" and shift premiums is because the document you are looking at shows only the changes. Things that were not altered at all wont be in that document but stay in the agreement.
So yes we still have shift prem. and yes the definition of entry level is still in the contract unchanged from the last one.
I goofed this up to. So let me Bold this:
THE ONLINE DOCUMENT SHOWS ONLY THE CHANGES IN THE CONTRACT ANYTHING NOT SHOWN AS DELETED IN THE ONLINE DOCUMENT IS STILL IN THE CONTRACT OR NEVER WAS THERE.
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Post by lap65 on Oct 6, 2011 11:34:31 GMT -5
Kessinger wrote "LAP is Traditional/COA. If all plants were supposedly team concept anyway, why would it be needed to force all plants to adopt it contractually?
answer--Why would someone bid leaders if there are no one (team) to lead? And they are making TL pay. All the new pay scales for inspectors and such line up with ARPs levels. Why are there so many "quality" leaders. It sure seems like enough to cover alot of small groups of workers that will at no time be know as a "team"
Not sure what you are saying here kess, are you saying that LAP is already on an MOA? We were told by our building chair that we are not & would not be. We were not when we left, when did it change?
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Post by Jr on Oct 6, 2011 11:36:20 GMT -5
Waiting for an answer on this one from someone elese as soon as I get it i will post it
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Post by lap65 on Oct 6, 2011 11:50:49 GMT -5
Over on Blue Oval someone said our right to strike is not retained in this contract, I could not find it either. Is that gone too? This is the worst contract I have ever seen. They want you to trade a little cash now for major concessions that are hidden in the contract or that we gave up supposedly temporarily, if we agree to this they will never come back. I'm with bulldog, I would not vote yes if the signing bonus was $10,000
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Post by Ex-metalman on Oct 6, 2011 11:54:09 GMT -5
I got one WE were told that our concessions were SUSPENDED not permanently erased.Did our negotiating team even ATTEMPT to BRING that up in the TALKS?And two does BOB KING really think this a good deal???And last thanks for taking the time to answer these and Im sure many more questions
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Oct 6, 2011 11:58:19 GMT -5
Settles and King both said they asked for raises and COLA...along with everything else we lost and Ford said no....they then said, "Oh, okay...but I can tell my members I asked."
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Post by bjmza on Oct 6, 2011 12:08:33 GMT -5
Question, is was mentioned that those on ILO will not be getting the signing bonus. Does anyone know if people who were working up until the week after the old contract expired and were then put on ILO will get the bonus or if they will get to vote? We keep getting conflicting answers.
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Post by trinitus on Oct 6, 2011 12:09:01 GMT -5
So many questions and yet no answer's. Don't get me wrong Kess, you have done a great job on here before and I feel you will give us answer's but I think this time most of those elected to the office of the Union will have one hell of a time trying to sell this one. VOTE NO!!!!! Answer-- I have no desire to sell you. As i have with every contract , even those I had a hand in writting, I want the membership to decide. But in order for them to make an informed decision they need a place to get answers that they can trust. I am trying to provide that. I will try to keep it opinion free, but that is hard. If I do post my opinion it will be on other threads. Well said Kess.
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Post by ktpsparky on Oct 6, 2011 13:03:10 GMT -5
Why is the Partial Profit Sharing Payment capped at 925 Compensated Hours? Answer--sparky, sorry I can not answer "why" they did something since I was not there and would not want to pass on third hand information I can not verify. But the cap is 1850 compensated hours. But this is not a cap in the way you are thinking of it. This will be a cap on the amount going in the bucket not how much you take out of the bucket. I will try to get a long form answer on profit sharing formula on a seperate thread. Either by me or someone else, I am still a little off on explaining it properly. Uhhhh negative. I don't see the 1850 Hr cap like GM on regular Profit Sharing. The only cap I see is on the "Partial Profit Sharing" and it is capped at 925 Compensated Hrs. To ScottR's post in another thread, it looks like most everyone will get very close to the $3752 partial payment in Nov, all they had to do was work 925+ compensated hrs. The variance from average will show up in March when the total is calculated for 2011 and the $3752 is deducted before the remaining 2011 distribution. Best I can tell, the 1850 Hr cap is for calculating the HOURLY piece of the profit pie. Anyone who works 1850+ Hrs will add $1 for each $1M in profit to the PS Fund. As far as dividing the PS Fund, it looks to me like all compensated hrs will determine one's share of the pie.
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Post by ktpsparky on Oct 6, 2011 13:04:45 GMT -5
Why are the Competitive Bonus qualifying metrics not predefined? Answer--they are writting that out still I think, but we are told it will be you must work 32 od the 52 weeks. We will have to trust or not trust them on that. Yeah, no offense...but I don't trust'em...not even for $250
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Post by ktpsparky on Oct 6, 2011 13:07:56 GMT -5
Settles and King both said they asked for raises and COLA...along with everything else we lost and Ford said no....they then said, "Oh, okay...but I can tell my members I asked." ROFLMAO ;D
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Post by Oliver Klosoff on Oct 6, 2011 13:34:03 GMT -5
will the ones on ilo that have run out of sub and tap money , start getting sub money again ? Answer-- Yes your weeks will be replenished from the way it was explained, and reads. This doesn't affect me, but I had one more question regarding this and I'm sure there are many on here curious as to the answer. The weeks will be replenished I understand, but if the contract is ratified, will those who are on ilo and currently out of weeks be retroactively paid out of their newly replenished weeks back to Sept. 14, or since we are under an extension of the old contract where the hours were expired, will they only receive new payments from the ratification date?
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Post by Jr on Oct 6, 2011 16:12:34 GMT -5
Kessinger wrote "LAP is Traditional/COA. If all plants were supposedly team concept anyway, why would it be needed to force all plants to adopt it contractually? answer--Why would someone bid leaders if there are no one (team) to lead? And they are making TL pay. All the new pay scales for inspectors and such line up with ARPs levels. Why are there so many "quality" leaders. It sure seems like enough to cover alot of small groups of workers that will at no time be know as a "team" Not sure what you are saying here kess, are you saying that LAP is already on an MOA? We were told by our building chair that we are not & would not be. We were not when we left, when did it change? Just got my answer on this LAP will still be a traditional plant. It is up to each individual plant from what I'm told.
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Oct 6, 2011 16:16:31 GMT -5
Keep the dream alive Jr....do whatever you can to keep the team concept out. Happy Land just got happier again.
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Post by rclap on Oct 6, 2011 16:25:11 GMT -5
Why is the $6000 refered to as a "settlement" in the highlight book instead of a signing bonus?
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Oct 6, 2011 16:27:10 GMT -5
Our union reps informed me to look back at previous contracts, and it was always referred to as a settlement bonus...the timing of this one with the grievance makes the wording look horrible.
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Post by Jr on Oct 6, 2011 17:43:27 GMT -5
Keep the dream alive Jr....do whatever you can to keep the team concept out. Happy Land just got happier again. somebody has to step up since you aren't coming back.
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Post by Oliver Klosoff on Oct 6, 2011 17:52:22 GMT -5
Our union reps informed me to look back at previous contracts, and it was always referred to as a settlement bonus...the timing of this one with the grievance makes the wording look horrible.[/quote Page 4 of GM's Highlights also calls it a settlement bonus too.
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Post by fordmakesnosense on Oct 6, 2011 17:52:56 GMT -5
its real easy......vote yes and the contract and the grievance are settled..........thus equals settlement bonus
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Post by Ktp1989 on Oct 6, 2011 19:38:33 GMT -5
Why are they paying us half of our profit sharing for next year now if the agreement "Stands on it's own"? (Bob King's words) Answer--Well this is clearly being used to get votes. Why would you need to get votes..."this contract sells itself" say Mr. King....this is a shit contract, you know it, I know it and Scott and all up North knows it....ship this shit back.
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Post by Ktp1989 on Oct 6, 2011 19:41:16 GMT -5
Settles and King both said they asked for raises and COLA...along with everything else we lost and Ford said no....they then said, "Oh, okay...but I can tell my members I asked." So basically there wasn't any bargaining...and thats apparent from this shit of a contract....what did they win.....$6000 and thats it. And thats before the gotcha's you haven't even found out about yet. Wipe my ass with this bs.
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Post by marcus on Oct 7, 2011 7:07:00 GMT -5
We won 3500 dollar sign bonus and 800 a year lump sum for life of contract.Thats what we get for the next 4 years.We got nothing back that was said to be temp until ford turned around.Profit sharing was said to be improved but its not.
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Post by kessinger on Oct 7, 2011 7:47:55 GMT -5
Question, is was mentioned that those on ILO will not be getting the signing bonus. Does anyone know if people who were working up until the week after the old contract expired and were then put on ILO will get the bonus or if they will get to vote? We keep getting conflicting answers.
Answer--According to page 243c if you are an active employee on day of ratification you get it. You are saying you work til a week after ratification so the answer would be yes.
Not sure what you are saying here kess, are you saying that LAP is already on an MOA? We were told by our building chair that we are not & would not be. We were not when we left, when did it change?
Answer--LAP65, this is just me being a smart ass. Quality leaders and other parts of the LAP agreement look a lot like MOA to me. But, Chairman Stone said last night LAP would not be MOA and there is no reason not to believe that. I just like poking the guys on here, happy happy land an all. SO disregard that part its just me being an ass.
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