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Post by ktpbodybum on Oct 19, 2011 8:27:54 GMT -5
Just had day shift body shop committeeman "Cowboy" tell me that the union wants to push team leaders into bid jobs. I want the ability to vote for or vote out my teeam leader based on how he takes care of the team. All I need is another suck as feeding me managements "BS", that is what we would get bidding out the team leaders. As far as I can remember, we have not gotten rid of the team concept yet.....or did we give that up too. The team should decide who represents and takes care of them!!!!!!!
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Post by marcus on Oct 19, 2011 9:04:20 GMT -5
Sweet i hope so,senority should be used.
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Post by trinitus on Oct 19, 2011 9:53:00 GMT -5
If everyhing in the contrat is true (pay scale and all), I would have a problem with the current way we put Team Leader's into place. I would have to go to a bid process myself. I wouldn't vote for a contract that would Grandfather in anyone who is currently a Team Leader. It would only be fair if the bid process plant wide for all Team Leader position's. Let's face it, people in Trim want out of Trim. Bids is just one more way for them to get out.
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Post by thintwowin on Oct 19, 2011 10:33:06 GMT -5
You can bet you will have restrictions on the bid. You will have to know all the jobs on that team. You have to cover for bathroom break etc. They won't just open them to anyone. So you can bet it will be the highest person on your team now, unless someone from days wants to goto nights. Just my opinion.
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Post by ctopher on Oct 19, 2011 10:51:01 GMT -5
Well if you remember they tried to make it a bid job last local contract and contract was voted down because of it.
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Post by marcus on Oct 19, 2011 11:17:03 GMT -5
Like to see the details on the last contract on it
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Post by Ktp1989 on Oct 19, 2011 11:25:17 GMT -5
Any job that give a $1.50 pay raise should be by seniority in my opinion. I think this is way past due and agree that LAP does it right. Seniority is about all we have left! Take the suction out of the job and put the seniority in.
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Post by nvsked1 on Oct 19, 2011 11:33:51 GMT -5
Any job that give a $1.50 pay raise should be by seniority in my opinion. I think this is way past due and agree that LAP does it right. Seniority is about all we have left! Take the suction out of the job and put the seniority in. Agree 100%, your vote came at contract time. Union shop seniority rules...
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Post by reedycreekbuc on Oct 19, 2011 11:43:15 GMT -5
Unless you have the support of the team at the beginning it won't work. Team leaders should be elected, not bid jobs. Team leaders should make $5.00 more an hour to put up with babysitting the whiners and the people who spend all day in the bathroom. Been there, done that, and wouldn't do it again for anything less.
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Post by fordlapworker1993 on Oct 19, 2011 11:59:49 GMT -5
And repairman should make $1.50 more than the team leader since they fix all the b.s. out of his/her team! ....team leader jobs should be a bid job and should go by seniority PERIOD!
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Post by jamesktp on Oct 19, 2011 12:10:35 GMT -5
SO TRUE ( KTPBODYBUM).LEAVE TEAM LEADERS AS IS. You can always vote them out if they dont look out for their team . IF a bid job you are stuck with them. Keep the same VOTED IN
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Post by thintwowin on Oct 19, 2011 12:17:11 GMT -5
Although I agree seniority rules. Would you want to be a team leader on a team you never been on before? You don't think it would be hell? You don't think the people on that team would make your life miserable ? You would probably bump someone off the team that been there for years. I myself would not want that job for any $1.50. You would be caught between a team that don't want you there and management that's getting you to tell that team what to do. No way no sir! Not me
What is a upgrader's job responsiblity at lap? They're kinda the same right?
I think a lot more would have to change to bid team leaders, like getting rid of the team concept PERIOD.
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86gn
New Member
Posts: 43
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Post by 86gn on Oct 19, 2011 12:30:30 GMT -5
Well if you remember they tried to make it a bid job last local contract and contract was voted down because of it. It was voted down because they wanted to grandfather the people in,,,it should be a bid job and started fresh
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Post by Ex-metalman on Oct 19, 2011 12:32:53 GMT -5
I could see it being a bid job but why the bump in pay???Lets be serious all they do at least in body is give pbreaks and smoke breaks!Rest of the time is theirs.Which is cool by me .But if they bid them out it should be by senority.
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Oct 19, 2011 13:38:40 GMT -5
Bump in pay is due to added duties...no one has heard the duties yet, but I have to believe they will pick up more of the salary's responsibilities...but I am hearing they will have so much to do that giving bathroom breaks won't be their job anymore. Having seen both, bidding is the only way. It's easy for bosses to get the bad ones disqualified...not easy to replace a worthless one which was voted in or given the job by default.
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Post by kessinger on Oct 19, 2011 13:49:36 GMT -5
For the record we haven't even discussed this in local negotiations yet. So its a little early to jump on whats being done or not being done.
As far as Body Bum's statement that committee is pushing it, he spoke to one committee person, cowboy, who voiced his thoughts on it.
The pot would have to be sweetened a lot before I myself would present any type of bid TL's to the membership and there would have to be a good removal process.
But those are my thoughts. There are 4 bargainers so my thoughts are my own and there are 3800 members here and they would have to decide also. So, despite Bum's belief, "the union" has yet to discuss or push anything.
Everyone's beliefs are different. Example if I said Bums opinion was equal to the whole membership's look how wrong I would be. More posts supporting Bids than not on here.
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Post by Jr on Oct 19, 2011 13:58:20 GMT -5
The pot would have to be sweetened a lot before I myself would present any type of bid TL's to the membership and there would have to be a good removal process. But those are my thoughts. There are 4 bargainers so my thoughts are my own and there are 3800 members here and they would have to decide also. So, despite Bum's belief, "the union" has yet to discuss or push anything. Everyone's beliefs are different. Example if I said Bums opinion was equal to the whole membership's look how wrong I would be. More posts supporting Bids than not on here. WOW a Bargainer That doesn't believe in Seniority!!!! Those jobs should of been bidded when you guys went to the MOA period. That is one of KTP'S biggest problems agree or disagree.
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Post by ktpgal89 on Oct 19, 2011 14:15:10 GMT -5
The pot would have to be sweetened a lot before I myself would present any type of bid TL's to the membership and there would have to be a good removal process. But those are my thoughts. There are 4 bargainers so my thoughts are my own and there are 3800 members here and they would have to decide also. So, despite Bum's belief, "the union" has yet to discuss or push anything. Everyone's beliefs are different. Example if I said Bums opinion was equal to the whole membership's look how wrong I would be. More posts supporting Bids than not on here. WOW a Bargainer That doesn't believe in Seniority!!!! Those jobs should of been bidded when you guys went to the MOA period. That is one of KTP'S biggest problems agree or disagree. Agree-being from another plant where senority was everything and here all the good jobs go the bosses favorites or "team rules". When the team is majority young senority, they stick together to make it favor them. The senority person is out voted on everything.
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Post by marcus on Oct 19, 2011 14:15:27 GMT -5
Thanks 86GN I knew there was a real reason behind it being voted down.
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Post by kessinger on Oct 19, 2011 14:19:02 GMT -5
Jr, I appreciate your attempt to spin the argument but this bargainer already presented a contract with Bid teamleaders.
The contract that we had bid team leaders in was voted down by 90%, we took out bid teamleaders and it PASSED by 90%. And it WAS NOT due to grandfathering them in. We walked and spoke to nearly every dept. And the issue was bidding them at all.
So yes, they would have to sweeten the pot in order for me to present another Bid TL to the membership, that is not a lack of belief in seniority it is acknowledging a FACT that this membership doesn't want it that way.
But dont let facts keep you from spinning it as you wish.
"I think this is way past due and agree that LAP does it right." Does what right? LAP doesn't have team leaders? COUGH COUGH.
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Post by marcus on Oct 19, 2011 14:20:09 GMT -5
We have so few bid jobs at KTP we need more.
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Post by thintwowin on Oct 19, 2011 14:20:11 GMT -5
How long you worked under the team concept Jr ?
I bet most that want it bid ( no offense) are from lap. Cause I bet 98% that hired in to voting for team leader don't want to see them bid out.
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Post by ktpgal89 on Oct 19, 2011 14:25:40 GMT -5
We have so few bid jobs at KTP we need more. If a job is going to pay $1.50 more it needs to be bid out-not given or voted one. Period. When the pay was the same I could see it voted on..
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Post by Jr on Oct 19, 2011 14:33:16 GMT -5
The pot would have to be sweetened a lot before I myself would present any type of bid TL's to the membership and there would have to be a good removal process. What Kind of a Spin?? in order to get a Bid you have to have seniorty. And a Bargainer not agreeing with that is Just WRONG!!! How long you worked under the team concept Jr ?9 Months. I've got alot of friends out there and from what they tell me things hasn't changed out there in 10 yrs. "I think this is way past due and agree that LAP does it right." Does what right? LAP doesn't have team leaders? COUGH COUGH.
Maybe they saw the disaster that the MOA created at KTP.. Lol Cough Cough..
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Post by thequestionmark on Oct 19, 2011 15:19:10 GMT -5
I love reading posts where ktp and lap bash each other over team concept. IT`s better than watching South Park ;D
But it does make you wonder when returning LAP hourly and salary workers from KTP have nothing good to say about the place.
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Post by Ktp1989 on Oct 19, 2011 15:53:19 GMT -5
Jr, I appreciate your attempt to spin the argument but this bargainer already presented a contract with Bid teamleaders. The contract that we had bid team leaders in was voted down by 90%, we took out bid teamleaders and it PASSED by 90%. And it WAS NOT due to grandfathering them in. We walked and spoke to nearly every dept. And the issue was bidding them at all. So yes, they would have to sweeten the pot in order for me to present another Bid TL to the membership, that is not a lack of belief in seniority it is acknowledging a FACT that this membership doesn't want it that way. But dont let facts keep you from spinning it as you wish. "I think this is way past due and agree that LAP does it right." Does what right? LAP doesn't have team leaders? COUGH COUGH. Lets not play games...I worked at LAP for 6 years and Upgraders are the exact same as team leaders except the senior union member gets the jobs thru bids...not suction and it has worked better then the Team Leader ever has....and the upgraders look out for the guys in the area...instead of the company unlike our IUAW at the contract table this past month. We have nothing left now....give the senior worker options to bid on jobs. My guess is it never happens because everyone in the local union are worried they might get voted out...since the membership didn't want it last time and with the lack of seniority in this plant that would make sense.
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Post by gocards on Oct 19, 2011 15:58:34 GMT -5
The main point here is the extra $1.50 Senority should mean something toward your pay oppertunities. Senority doesnt mean as much as it should here. Look at union officials senority it is not that much so I see why senority doesn't m ean much to them.
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Post by ktpbodybum on Oct 19, 2011 17:19:50 GMT -5
Do not let anyone fool you.... Team leaders having been getting an extra 60 something cents an hour for over 10 years. Many if you act as if this is something new, but they have just increased it because they are going to have more responsibility.
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Post by tryingtomakeit on Oct 19, 2011 18:30:46 GMT -5
Once again, just like the IUAW, with all due respect, I believe our local leadership is out of touch with their rank and file. I dont know who you are talking to kess, but the majority of the people around me, want them to be bid jobs.
If only ONE person/job in the plant is going to get a RAISE. Then it has to be done by seniority. And the bullshit argument that you wouldnt be able to get rid of a bad TL if its bid is a joke. How often have you seen an elected TL get removed? Doesnt happen too often.
Put it to a vote. And see. And the last time it was turned down, it was because the people were going to be grandfathered in, dont kid yourself.
You can keep the popularity contests for class president. If we have to live with this turd of a contract for the next four years, it would be nice to at least see seniority count for something for a change.
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Post by nvsked1 on Oct 19, 2011 19:05:36 GMT -5
Once again, just like the IUAW, with all due respect, I believe our local leadership is out of touch with their rank and file. I dont know who you are talking to kess, but the majority of the people around me, want them to be bid jobs. If only ONE person/job in the plant is going to get a RAISE. Then it has to be done by seniority. And the bullshit argument that you wouldnt be able to get rid of a bad TL if its bid is a joke. How often have you seen an elected TL get removed? Doesnt happen too often. Put it to a vote. And see. And the last time it was turned down, it was because the people were going to be grandfathered in, dont kid yourself. You can keep the popularity contests for class president. If we have to live with this turd of a contract for the next four years, it would be nice to at least see seniority count for something for a change. Great post... could not agree more... BID the jobs seniority rules. UAW = Democracy put to a vote... Unless your afraid of the out come, AND NO GRAND FATHER CLAUSES .... 10 years has seen a lot of changes time to get current BID the JOBS, BID the JOBs NO JUSTICE NO PEACE ATTICA ATTICA
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