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Post by ScottR@KTP on Oct 25, 2011 9:10:11 GMT -5
Not to mention many teams have "special team rules" which completely take seniority out of the equation when dealing with extras also. Instead of everyone being utilities, a guy with ten less years may be the absentee cover while the others are called "extras"...LOL...they have lots of creative ways at KTP to attempt to take seniority out of the equation. But, you have to be the asshole and tell them there's only one book you follow, and that's the contract.
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Post by marcus on Oct 25, 2011 9:33:52 GMT -5
Yep special rules and they leave that up to the team.The team can be made up of people with 8 years or couple with 20 and your time does not matter.
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Post by lap65 on Oct 25, 2011 10:24:24 GMT -5
My brother works at Toyota & that sounds just like what he has described to me. Sounds like a union busting scheme, I cant believe we have so many plants that have accepted this nonsense.
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Post by reedycreekbuc on Oct 25, 2011 10:32:16 GMT -5
My brother works at Toyota & that sounds just like what he has described to me. Sounds like a union busting scheme, I cant believe we have so many plants that have accepted this nonsense. That is what I have always said, "You can't have a team in a union workplace." Seniority always takes precedent. That is why it is so hard for the LAP people and others to accept the things that go on at KTP. We adapted to the team concept from the beginning, so we are used to it.
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Post by Ktp1989 on Oct 25, 2011 16:38:16 GMT -5
Shouldn't even be a voteable issue...Union should make all jobs above VAT bid jobs....period.
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Post by kbrundag on Oct 25, 2011 18:57:31 GMT -5
Seriously? The Team concept is great if you are a lazy piece of crap union rep. Ever heard one say "thats up to the Team, I have no control of that." In other words, you can't have a Team concept and an effective union. KTPers for the most part cry that their union sucks. Well, you take them out of the equasion with every team vote, every team rule, every time the Team decides on how to do things. From the leader, the awol coverage, the flip list, who does what job. But hey, you like it, keep it. Just don't whine about your union. You made em that way, enjoy.
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Post by gocards on Oct 26, 2011 9:31:30 GMT -5
wait till the 2 tier workers get hired. They will start voting thier own as teamleaders because they will start out numbering people in utrim. Then all of us KTPers will start whinning together about that is not right. Senority shopuld mean something, or maybe not today or this year it will come back to haunt us all. Bid it now for future worries.
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Oct 26, 2011 10:41:25 GMT -5
Which is exactly what the company wants...team leaders making $16 an hour...lmao.
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Post by Ktp1989 on Oct 26, 2011 13:10:08 GMT -5
Which is exactly what the company wants...team leaders making $16 an hour...lmao. Who are scared to death and will run around and take care of the company...My experience with LAP and the "upgrader" jobs being bid is that they look out for their people..not the company. ANY JOB ABOVE VAT SHOULD BE A BID JOB...PERIOD.
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Post by tryingtomakeit on Oct 26, 2011 14:41:58 GMT -5
The fact that it is so obvious that these need to be bid jobs, and the lack of value some people put on seniority, will lead me to be as ignorant as those who oppose it. So if it comes to pass that the jobs remain popularity contests, I will nominate, and vote for 2nd tier people for TL at any and all opportunity. But alas, as it is with my seniority and shift, I wont run into to many 2nd tier people. So the majority of the people that want it to remain a vote(lower seniority) could very well get screwed by a 2nd tier gutless TL. LOL I hope that shit happens!!!!
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Post by Jr on Oct 26, 2011 16:40:06 GMT -5
The fact that it is so obvious that these need to be bid jobs, and the lack of value some people put on seniority, will lead me to be as ignorant as those who oppose it. So if it comes to pass that the jobs remain popularity contests, I will nominate, and vote for 2nd tier people for TL at any and all opportunity. But alas, as it is with my seniority and shift, I wont run into to many 2nd tier people. So the majority of the people that want it to remain a vote(lower seniority) could very well get screwed by a 2nd tier gutless TL. LOL I hope that shit happens!!!! Lol....... I Like it
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Post by darklady28 on Oct 26, 2011 20:30:44 GMT -5
No offense to anyone but why are we hating on each other and saying stuff like hope I can say I told you so and wanting negative things to happen to one another???WE are the UNION.We are brothers and sisters of this union.Lets stick together and try to withstand this mess that some people voted in.Hopefully those people have learned a lesson and we can do something next time??Not sure what that is??BUT we can say NO to any more opening of the contract!!!!!Anyone have any ideas on what can be done??Lets try to solve this problem instead of whine and hate...I'm mad as heck too but what does all the hating,name-calling and whining do??
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Post by meanjean on Oct 27, 2011 12:23:12 GMT -5
Not to mention many teams have "special team rules" which completely take seniority out of the equation when dealing with extras also. Instead of everyone being utilities, a guy with ten less years may be the absentee cover while the others are called "extras"...LOL...they have lots of creative ways at KTP to attempt to take seniority out of the equation. But, you have to be the asshole and tell them there's only one book you follow, and that's the contract. Don't put all the eggs in one basket. On my team, the senior people like to pick a job and be on it every day. When I first went to my team, I was Awol Coverage because I was the low seniority person on the team. So your story doesn't work everywhere Scott.
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Post by meanjean on Oct 27, 2011 12:26:15 GMT -5
Seriously? The Team concept is great if you are a lazy piece of crap union rep. Ever heard one say "thats up to the Team, I have no control of that." In other words, you can't have a Team concept and an effective union. KTPers for the most part cry that their union sucks. Well, you take them out of the equasion with every team vote, every team rule, every time the Team decides on how to do things. From the leader, the awol coverage, the flip list, who does what job. But hey, you like it, keep it. Just don't whine about your union. You made em that way, enjoy. But seriously Kris, you know it was set up that way (team concept) when we hired in at KTP.
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Post by meanjean on Oct 27, 2011 12:28:55 GMT -5
No offense to anyone but why are we hating on each other and saying stuff like hope I can say I told you so and wanting negative things to happen to one another???WE are the UNION.We are brothers and sisters of this union.Lets stick together and try to withstand this mess that some people voted in.Hopefully those people have learned a lesson and we can do something next time??Not sure what that is??BUT we can say NO to any more opening of the contract!!!!!Anyone have any ideas on what can be done??Lets try to solve this problem instead of whine and hate...I'm mad as heck too but what does all the hating,name-calling and whining do?? I wish we had a like button !!!
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Oct 27, 2011 13:03:00 GMT -5
Not to mention many teams have "special team rules" which completely take seniority out of the equation when dealing with extras also. Instead of everyone being utilities, a guy with ten less years may be the absentee cover while the others are called "extras"...LOL...they have lots of creative ways at KTP to attempt to take seniority out of the equation. But, you have to be the asshole and tell them there's only one book you follow, and that's the contract. Don't put all the eggs in one basket. On my team, the senior people like to pick a job and be on it every day. When I first went to my team, I was Awol Coverage because I was the low seniority person on the team. So your story doesn't work everywhere Scott. Don't get what you're saying...I posted "many" teams, not all. I've been on 7 teams since I came over...all were different.
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Post by kbrundag on Oct 27, 2011 14:57:27 GMT -5
Really, come on... You were AWOL coverage because no one else wanted it, not because you were the low man. Just like any other job on the team, you get the job the team perceives as crap.
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Post by Shrek on Oct 27, 2011 21:54:54 GMT -5
I have a Question do TL get all there ARPS before the $1.50 raise or is it all included?
I Just came back from KTP I believe the vote system works about as well as the bid system. TLs at KTP do way more than What Quality leaders at LAP do. Their Job description leans more towards a supervisor roll. than those of a traditional Up Grader. Even the new Quality Leader Jobs at LAP have nowhere near the responsibilities the Team Leaders at KTP have. I think TLs job descriptions and removal process could be refined a bit but I seems to work pretty well.
The real Problem lies in the AWOL coverage Jobs. The People that get this job 99% of the time are the new Guys on the team or the youngest seniority people. AWOL Jobs should be a bid Job and classified as Utility no ifs, ands or buts about it. these people get truly screwed day in and day out.
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Post by marcus on Oct 28, 2011 4:19:31 GMT -5
Ive heard that its up to the team a few times.
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Post by kbrundag on Oct 28, 2011 10:13:25 GMT -5
Any Quality Leaders who have gone through their new Quality Leader Training, know that their jobs are changing. Perhaps one can chime in with the coming changes in responsibility, and expectations they will have upon their return.
Yea, yea, I know there will be some growing pains for them with the new changes. Probably some "that's not my job" or "I'm not doing that." But I just expect that from the Old Bastards, all the new Quality Leaders will assimilate just fine...
Personally, I don't have a major problem with the Team structure, I did Team Leader 4 years and enjoyed it, along with AWOL coverage, (because I wanted it) and a Relief Man.
I would say the only issue is the 1 or 2 Rejects that every Team has. The ones who start all the shit, the ones who eyeball what everyone does, the ones who don't come to work everyday, the ones who get pissed and go to medical, the ones who have to bend a union reps ear for an hour every day, the one who thinks they're real important because they are part of the Team, just the rotten miserable prick that every Team seems to have... Yea, you know what I mean.
Hey, everyone has their Pricks, but here in Happy Land, they're not part of a Team, you can be miserable in your own little corner, because what you say or think does not matter. You're black aura of hate does not effect anyone, while the rest of us sing Kumbaya, and pray for all the lost souls over at KTP...
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