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Post by meanjean on Oct 22, 2011 2:40:17 GMT -5
this isnt lap. they tried this shit last time. team leader at ktp is an elected position. The contract will never pass if it is a bid job. U lapers are not in the good old boy club. It is an elected position so fuck off...And if u doubted that fuck you Damn, you need a chill pill real bad. Opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one. That is the problem with this forum, everybody's got to get an attitude.
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Post by goodtime on Oct 22, 2011 6:21:54 GMT -5
How about they not give TL's more money. The issues started when people heard about the 1.50 hr more for TL's. It's been elected since I've been here(17yrs) and it was shot down big time during last opening of contract. Sorry LAP, you can't expect sudden change overnight. Think how it would be if KTPers went to LAP and demanded change for something that has been going on since most hired in. Try to see both sides, but I do agree, senority should mean something. They will probaly outsource TL's anyway.
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Post by katfan on Oct 22, 2011 7:58:53 GMT -5
Actually they already make more, something like 50-60 cents, and in the past they were given more time....1/2 at start up and paid thru their breaks. So this isn't as good of a deal as it was in the past.
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Post by itsnotmyjob on Oct 22, 2011 9:23:46 GMT -5
well for one us LAPER"S we have quality leaders which is a bid job.....highest seniority should have these jobs.....which we will be team concept soon anyways we are kinda like that now the ql gives pee breaks or whatever they have 10 ppl in the group just the same but their postion is a bid job u have good ones and u have bad ones and that is anywhere u go so dont knock LAP unless u have worked there!!!!
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Post by itsnotmyjob on Oct 22, 2011 9:24:55 GMT -5
gee laidoff u sound like u are a team leader....bahahaha
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Post by Ktp1989 on Oct 22, 2011 10:14:31 GMT -5
gee laidoff u sound like u are a team leader....bahahaha and a worried one because hes about to get back to doing some real work.
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Post by laidoff on Oct 22, 2011 10:29:52 GMT -5
No team leader here. Just cant wait till u lapers go back to the land of milk and honey. All u guys do is bitch and cry about how "this ain't how we do it at lap." Well the way it is now is how it will be at lap.
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Post by Jr on Oct 22, 2011 10:50:58 GMT -5
No team leader here. Just cant wait till u lapers go back to the land of milk and honey. All u guys do is bitch and cry about how "this ain't how we do it at lap." Well the way it is now is how it will be at lap. Not if we Don't Want it to. The reason KTP is the way it is Now is because Nobody Has stood up and Said this is WRONG!! They have just took the They Can Do that Mentality because the Rules for the teams to follow is so VAGUE.
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Post by ktpstock on Oct 22, 2011 10:56:05 GMT -5
I worked at LAP for 19 years, and they are basically the same when it comes to pbreaks. I dont know if I see to many team leaders fixing things going down the line. I see it going to repair. Upgraders are at least held a little responsible for shit leaving their area. I dont see that happening here just a lot of sitting down. BID THEM. That much free time should go to senior people. I wouldn't have one! I dont need the money that bade to put up with the shit. I put up with enough already.
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Post by ktpstock on Oct 22, 2011 11:00:51 GMT -5
I hear what you are saying laidoff but thats not exactly true. They still dont have teamleaders at lap. they are still upgrades. And not crying either, seniority just means more at LAP. Call it crying if you want but seniority means something at lap. They sure dont care about it here.
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Post by itsnotmyjob on Oct 22, 2011 11:23:46 GMT -5
well said ktpstock they wouldnt be saying that if they had been at LAP first senioroty is all that at LAP thats about all we have left.... and i agree i wouldnt want the job not with everything they have to do and put up with......
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Post by Ktp1989 on Oct 22, 2011 18:33:39 GMT -5
I have worked at both plants...6 years at LAP and the rest at KTP and each has good things and each have bad things...but for LAP workers to act like the union is so strong or they honor seniority and that all is well is...well....bs. The have had their same set of issues as has KTP....not much different from my experience....but agree that the upgrader bid job should be the same at KTP.
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Post by itsnotmyjob on Oct 22, 2011 19:42:14 GMT -5
i agree ktp1989 at LAP i dont believe half of what comes out of theirs mouths, but for now at least seniority still means something at LAP...
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Post by marcus on Oct 23, 2011 2:47:57 GMT -5
Union is alot stronger at LAP than it is at KTP.I think some has to do with the MOA crap.
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Oct 23, 2011 13:47:50 GMT -5
I think MOA has much to do with the issues at KTP. The only people...and I do mean "ONLY"...that bitch about seniority and bid jobs are those that have no shot at getting one. It's really that easy.
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Post by ktpgurl on Oct 23, 2011 17:45:30 GMT -5
I am glad Happy Land is there for you when you go back and you can all talk about how terrible it was when you were at KTP. But here at KTP the bid team leader was shot down by a huge majority. I do not want a team leader for life. We elect them and they hold the position for 2 years and then nominations and elections again. Trust me if they suck they won't be voted back in...I don't care how popular they are.
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Post by lgnikko on Oct 23, 2011 19:16:54 GMT -5
My 2 cents for whats it's worth....I worked at lap for 17 years.....didn't have a decent upgrader in those 17 years.....I've been in paint since I've been at ktp.....my teamleader is awesome....if you need anything she will take care of it.....and she is there for the team, not the company. So I like the elected teamleader....that way if they suck...vote them out. As for myself....I wouldn't have the job.
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Post by trinitus on Oct 23, 2011 21:06:10 GMT -5
Let me break it down into some simple understanding. I hired in at KTP UNDER the MOA and Elected Team Leader rules.
Back when I hired in we had one Team leader (elected every 6 months), I Team Trainer (elected every 6 months) and two team AWOL coverage (extra) people per team.
Since I hired in we have went from what I posted above to 1 Team Leader (elected once every year), No Team Trainer and to 2 AWOL coverage plus 2 extra's per team.
Now in our last contract vote (local), our Team Leader is voted in EVERY TWO YEARS, still no Team Trainer and now our AWOL coverage could be considered Extra's (unless it suit's Management to have AWOL coverage).
With all that said, I feel we will be going to a BID JOB on the Team Leader's sooner or later. It is all just a matter of time. I voted the last local contract down due to the Team Leader being considered a bid job and those being Grandfathered in. Now if what I have been reading is true and if the Team Leader postion is going to be more entailed with more money involved then yes it should be put up for bid.
Hate all you want but it dosen't matter if you elect them or they get in by bid, the plant will run like shit as always. Personally, I would like to see high seinority get a bid job and the money that goes with it than see a low seinority person get it that only looks out for about 50% of a team. We all work in hell and why should it be unfair for someone with 20 plus years to work on the line when they have time to hold a bid job and have to put up with someone not taking care of a entire team.
That's my two cent's and you can keep the change.
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Post by lap65 on Oct 24, 2011 0:40:16 GMT -5
I've worked at LAP for 19 years & only had one bad upgrader the whole time, the first one I had was terrible, but every one I have had after that has been great. I would say there are great quality leaders(upgraders) & terible ones , great team leaders & terrible ones just like there are great people & terrible ones, its just the luck of the draw which kind you get stuck with. Having said all that any time there is an oppurtunity for a job that pays more & is easier physically it should always be a bid job. Everybody keeps saying that at KTP how you wouldn't want the job & all that you have to put up with, if thats true why the big deal about making it a bid job? If most people really don't want the job then it wouldn't even be an issue, but it sounds like that plenty of people do want the job & because lower seniority people would never get it if it was by bid, they choose to keep it by vote so they can have a shot at it. I have to agree with the earlier poster that said this is an issue that shouldn't even be up for debate much less a vote, its a seniority issue & the union should back that. IMHO
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Post by katfan on Oct 24, 2011 10:07:28 GMT -5
If we would would have gotten raises in our contract would this be such a hot topic?? Like I stated in an earlier post, team leaders actually made more in the past...maybe not in pay but time.
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Oct 24, 2011 11:16:58 GMT -5
Everyone would get raises, but only the TL(s) are gonna get a $1.50 an hour raise over that...so anytime a job is paying a premium rate, it should be bid.
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Post by Ktp1989 on Oct 24, 2011 14:32:04 GMT -5
Everyone would get raises, but only the TL(s) are gonna get a $1.50 an hour raise over that...so anytime a job is paying a premium rate, it should be bid. Exactly....if a job is available and the rate of pay is above the VAT...Bid it!!
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Post by bo862 on Oct 24, 2011 15:07:51 GMT -5
The pot would have to be sweetened a lot before I myself would present any type of bid TL's to the membership and there would have to be a good removal process. What Kind of a Spin?? in order to get a Bid you have to have seniorty. And a Bargainer not agreeing with that is Just WRONG!!! How long you worked under the team concept Jr ?9 Months. I've got alot of friends out there and from what they tell me things hasn't changed out there in 10 yrs. "I think this is way past due and agree that LAP does it right." Does what right? LAP doesn't have team leaders? COUGH COUGH.
Maybe they saw the disaster that the MOA created at KTP.. Lol Cough Cough.. What bargainer are you talking about jr? Again, for those that were not here at the time, the last contract was voted down by 90% because of trying to make tl a bid job. Bargaining team heard the membership and had no choice. If you want to blame someone for this being implemented as an election, you need to go back to the 90's when sutton was building chair, and blame that team for accepting it with the moa.
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Post by lap65 on Oct 24, 2011 15:20:34 GMT -5
I think what some are saying is that it should have never been put to a vote to begin with, people with less seniority are always going to be against something that doesn't benefit them, that doesn't make it right. Whats next? Voting on repair men, fork drivers, utility? Lets vote on which fork driver we like the best regardless of seniority. Makes no sense. Why have seniority. The point is it should never have been an option in the local contract, it doesnt matter about what the majority wants when it comes to seniority. This is what we have to look forward to when the 2 tier workers have more numbers, it will be majority rules instead of seniority, when that happens we wont need a union any more. I think some are just failing to see where this slippery slope leads.
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Post by thintwowin on Oct 24, 2011 17:13:51 GMT -5
It was put to a vote to begin with, because it got the Superduty Truck. The old timers that hired in 69,70, etc., voted it in to get the new product. It's been like that since 1993. So almost 20 years now. I guess it's been wrong for a long time?
The problem is everyone hates change, Lap peeps hate it and Ktp hate it . Good luck on that.
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Post by Amerigo on Oct 24, 2011 18:29:08 GMT -5
The team leader , upgrade , quality leader, is the same job and it should be a bid job . One way to smooth the transition could be over a two year period as current elected team leaders terms expire they should be replaced by bid winners.Utilities, AWOL coverage , extra's should also be bid jobs .
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Post by tryingtomakeit on Oct 24, 2011 19:07:28 GMT -5
What Kind of a Spin?? in order to get a Bid you have to have seniorty. And a Bargainer not agreeing with that is Just WRONG!!! How long you worked under the team concept Jr ?9 Months. I've got alot of friends out there and from what they tell me things hasn't changed out there in 10 yrs. "I think this is way past due and agree that LAP does it right." Does what right? LAP doesn't have team leaders? COUGH COUGH.
Maybe they saw the disaster that the MOA created at KTP.. Lol Cough Cough.. What bargainer are you talking about jr? Again, for those that were not here at the time, the last contract was voted down by 90% because of trying to make tl a bid job. Bargaining team heard the membership and had no choice. If you want to blame someone for this being implemented as an election, you need to go back to the 90's when sutton was building chair, and blame that team for accepting it with the moa. Once again, it was voted down because of the grandfathering in of current TL's, not because it was to become a bid job. Huge difference there. I wanted it to be a bid job. But as it was written, I too, voted it down. F the grandfathering in, bid it out and be done with it.
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Post by Ironman2301 on Oct 24, 2011 21:00:37 GMT -5
What Kind of a Spin?? in order to get a Bid you have to have seniorty. And a Bargainer not agreeing with that is Just WRONG!!! How long you worked under the team concept Jr ?9 Months. I've got alot of friends out there and from what they tell me things hasn't changed out there in 10 yrs. "I think this is way past due and agree that LAP does it right." Does what right? LAP doesn't have team leaders? COUGH COUGH.
Maybe they saw the disaster that the MOA created at KTP.. Lol Cough Cough.. What bargainer are you talking about jr? Again, for those that were not here at the time, the last contract was voted down by 90% because of trying to make tl a bid job. Bargaining team heard the membership and had no choice. If you want to blame someone for this being implemented as an election, you need to go back to the 90's when sutton was building chair, and blame that team for accepting it with the moa. Bob Breedlove was the building chairman when CLT came to KTP.
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gangstarick
Amateur
screw you guys, i'm going home
Posts: 87
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Post by gangstarick on Oct 24, 2011 21:31:09 GMT -5
Forget who was building chair when all this crap came to be, we need to focus on where it is going.
First off, what is the reason they are giving the TL's a raise? Second what will they be doing? I heard that they will be more like a line supervisor. No more giving Pee Breaks and smoke breaks. Why would anyone vote someone into a position like that? make it a bid job.
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Post by lap65 on Oct 25, 2011 0:39:16 GMT -5
The team leader , upgrade , quality leader, is the same job and it should be a bid job . One way to smooth the transition could be over a two year period as current elected team leaders terms expire they should be replaced by bid winners.Utilities, AWOL coverage , extra's should also be bid jobs . Utilities aren't bid jobs at KTP either? Are you serious?
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