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Post by ScottR@KTP on Feb 10, 2012 9:41:47 GMT -5
I'm sure they fixed many things in the new local, but it's a shame the east end of this local is too far broken to ever be considered acceptable. I am beginning to understand why so many of you KTPers gave up and quit fighting years ago, but I have way too much fight left in me to ever lay down.
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Feb 10, 2012 9:43:01 GMT -5
The local contracts will be passed out tomorrow. I like what I see in the local. We may not agree on everything but I will try to answer any question that you may have. Also, go to the UAWsite that I have on the bottom of this message and look at the national contract pages 38A-47A to see where it talks about team leaders, teams and how this process will work. I would have loved to see the company agree to the 10/1 ratio but that isn't going to happen because, let me just say it like this because if I was at the table doing the negotiation for this local I wouldn't agree with the company on letting them hand select a team leader. It would either be put up for bid or stay as it is. Our guys did a good job on this local and I will be supporting it. www.uaw.org/members/uaw-bargaining/ford-hourlyThe books will be passed out during the shift on Friday? Will day shift be receiving them? Is stamping considered under the same contract or are we officially 'right to work' now?
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Post by beenaround on Feb 10, 2012 9:47:09 GMT -5
Answer: in the new language it does not give a rate it says on letter 047A "a common teamleader classification and wage rate will be made available once the roles and responsibilitys have been implemented" Read more: scottrlap.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=rumors&action=display&thread=11579#ixzz1lzSJgK76 You know you just gotta love that 47a language statemernt.Reminds me of a statement that the great Nancy Pelosi made about the Obozo healthcare plan,"We wont know whats in it until we vote it in." More great bargaining on the the part of the IUAW!!!
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Post by Jr on Feb 10, 2012 10:19:24 GMT -5
answer: I know its fun to claim everything your union does is a deal cut. But, what deal do you invision being cut? The company WANTED Bid teamleaders. Do you think they gave us gifts or money to NOT do bid teamleaders even though they wanted it? Just wondering? I don't follow your train of thought. Other than maybe you just hate unions and have a need to claim everything is a scam. OK I have no dog in this fight but let me understand this......... The Company wanted TO BID the jobs!! But the UNION said NO. Can I ask was the Company wanting to Grandfather in Jobs?? Or did the Union Just say NO to Bidding these jobs? Bidding these jobs would be a Win for the Union!!! It would Get the SENIOR Brother and Sisters into a easier Job and Create more jobs that people could look forward to when they get more seniority and people move on. I can NEVER understand the UNION going aginst something that looks out for the Senior People.
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Feb 10, 2012 10:52:32 GMT -5
Jr...it's all about majority out here. The way for a BC to keep his job is to please the majority even if it's morally wrong within a union. Scott knew if they started bidding the TLs, he'd get voted out next election. Can't blame the guy for attempting to keep the majority happy.
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Post by lapwasktp on Feb 10, 2012 11:04:11 GMT -5
Jr you are correct, It appears that in the SPIRIT of Cooperation with our company, the Union is screwing the rank and file... It used to be that a Union was all about Senority, weather you had it or not.. Just saying....
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86gn
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Post by 86gn on Feb 10, 2012 11:32:52 GMT -5
All those good jobs are just getting tossed aside, hope it gets voted down...One day BC will remember its a union shop out here and senority matters!!!!
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Post by tiger66 on Feb 10, 2012 12:10:32 GMT -5
Maybe we should bid out union leader jobs!!!!!!!
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Post by jeter3000 on Feb 10, 2012 12:56:27 GMT -5
Why are we (union members)arguing over SENIORITY ? Do you really think it's a brother or sisters RIGHT to dictate who is awarded a certain job? SENIORITY employees protect their jobs in work areas involving transfers, PROMOTIONS, bumping, filling vacancies, and layoffs. SENIORITY rights can be established on a department or plant-wide basis and may be conditioned on the worker's ability to perform on the job, attendance, labor record! Let management do their jobs and we will do ours! SENIORITY DOES means everything and without it were screwed.
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Post by JoePieper on Feb 10, 2012 13:39:50 GMT -5
I will wait and see what is in the local. Then, and only then will I make an EDUCATED decision and form my opinions based on what I read.
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jmudd
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Post by jmudd on Feb 10, 2012 16:29:58 GMT -5
i got an uprade spot also . love being back at lap . its not a bad job at all . and im glad i dont have to suck a## to keep it . no buddie system over her ., its a bid system and thats the way i like it
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Post by thintwowin on Feb 10, 2012 16:41:03 GMT -5
I'm sure they fixed many things in the new local, but it's a shame the east end of this local is too far broken to ever be considered acceptable. I am beginning to understand why so many of you KTPers gave up and quit fighting years ago, but I have way too much fight left in me to ever lay down. The Ohio peeps was just like you. Most of them finally got there good jobs and gave up their fight too. You will fold too, just a KTP way of life. To bad it's all I know. You will never find a leader to make KTP like LAP, to much work would have to be done. We don't play hardball anymore, them days are gone.
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Post by kessinger on Feb 10, 2012 17:55:12 GMT -5
You guys are funny. You claim the union leadership doesnt respect seniority ignoring the fact that we ALREADY TRIED TO PASS A CONTACT WITH BID TEAMLEADERS!!!!!!! Brought to you by this same leadership. I know it fits your ability to bash us to ignore that we already tried it, but at least be honest in your posts.
ScottR wrote "Jr...it's all about majority out here. The way for a BC to keep his job is to please the majority even if it's morally wrong within a union. Scott knew if they started bidding the TLs, he'd get voted out next election. Can't blame the guy for attempting to keep the majority happy."
answer; Actually Scott to get elected I don't need a majority just top three. TO GET A CONTRACT PASSED I NEED A MAJORITY. And though you guy want bid TL's the plant clearly has stated they do not. So there are no bid teamleaders so the contract can pass.
And this may sound amazing, but EVERY plant needs a majority to pass a contract. If they don't then something is very fishy.
Marcus. We have 870 people in this plant on bid jobs. You have state that a lot over the years that we need more bid jobs but 870 bid jobs with our population seems like a lot to me. I don't have the numbers from other plants but I would be that is a lot.
But again, if the membership decides they want something else we will change it. We don't take that personal. It is our job to provide a contract THAT A MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE WANT. And we will do that, which ever way it goes.
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Post by kessinger on Feb 10, 2012 18:13:36 GMT -5
Jr asked: "Can I ask was the Company wanting to Grandfather in Jobs??"
answer: They don't want it any other way and wouldn't even discuss not grandfathering last time.
Heres why 400(est.) teamleaders x 14 jobs each x 3 days = 12600 days of training. You can imagine they wanted no part of paying for all that training.
And again Jr. we negotiated and tried to get passed bid teamleaders 3 years ago. And the membership answer with a big time NO. We felt like it was a win to, but the memebership disagreed with us and we will respect their wishes
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Post by kessinger on Feb 10, 2012 18:17:56 GMT -5
ScottR why did you make this comment? "The books will be passed out during the shift on Friday? Will day shift be receiving them? Is stamping considered under the same contract or are we officially 'right to work' now? "
You have a committeeperson that is certainly known for going to see people? Or is this just rhetoric?
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Feb 10, 2012 18:27:21 GMT -5
Charlie Jones is doing a phenomenal job...he's a great committeeman. This comment was made in regards to a situation that Rodney and Scott E. clearly dropped the ball on this week in stamping. But once the BC makes their decision, the only option I have to change it is to attend a meeting and go thru the appeal process...which isn't something I am willing to do on my own time. I don't want to go into it on here, but I would gladly discuss it with you sometime if you would like. I would like to hear your opinion as well...
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Post by beenaround on Feb 10, 2012 18:52:54 GMT -5
Why does it only take a day or 2 to get a copy of the "highlights" yet it takes a year or so to get the whole contract in black and white?
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Post by watchmen on Feb 10, 2012 19:22:36 GMT -5
Why does it only take a day or 2 to get a copy of the "highlights" yet it takes a year or so to get the whole contract in black and white? . Because the lawyers have to fine tune the legal jargon before the books are printed.
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Post by watchmen on Feb 10, 2012 19:26:14 GMT -5
ScottR.... KTP is a fickle whore. She will break you.
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Post by Jr on Feb 10, 2012 22:09:29 GMT -5
Jr asked: "Can I ask was the Company wanting to Grandfather in Jobs??" answer: They don't want it any other way and wouldn't even discuss not grandfathering last time. Heres why 400(est.) teamleaders x 14 jobs each x 3 days = 12600 days of training. You can imagine they wanted no part of paying for all that training. And again Jr. we negotiated and tried to get passed bid teamleaders 3 years ago. And the membership answer with a big time NO. We felt like it was a win to, but the memebership disagreed with us and we will respect their wishes You Didn't answer my question!!! answer: They don't want it any other way and wouldn't even discuss not grandfathering last time. That was Last time!!! How about this time? Alot of things have changed in 3 years!
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Post by trinitus on Feb 10, 2012 23:18:34 GMT -5
OK let's drop the Team Leader issue for a post or two and focus on the rest of this "contract".
1. If I decide I want to go to LAP and get the chance, according to the highlight book I will lose my Seniority and start with day one seniority over there. I didn't write this stuff just reading what was published and put out by our Leader's.
2.Perfect attendance: Is it safe to say that after all is said and done only ten member's who have perfect attendance will get some sort of reward, with one of the m getting a second reward? For example, let's say 750 member's had perfect attendance, only ten of them would receive recognition. That is wrong in so many way's, why would anyone want to get a perfect year if there is a Chance they won't be honored. Even though it states that UAW elected and appointed member's won't be eligible, that is yet to be seen.
3.Heat stress: Clearly by this contract, if we get a vending machine for Gatorade, we will only be able to get two drinks per person per shift. You know what just take this out of the contract if that is the best that can be done. We all know very well how those machine's in that will work or the lack of working.
There is so more that I won't take up any more of people's time writing them out. Just read the highlight book and you will see how much of this is out of touch with the membership it really is. I thought Kess said it would be a good contract and that we will be pleased. Kess, I took you at your word and now I regret doing that. I really thought it would be a decent contract, at least decent enough for me to vote yes even with the TL issue. I can't support this contract and I hope the rest of the membership can figure it out too.
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Post by JoePieper on Feb 10, 2012 23:26:08 GMT -5
Jr. the man already stated several times that if the majority dont like the new contract with the TL issue as it is then they will CHANGE it. So wait and see. Personally I think TLs should remain as they are now. Yes there are bad ones but there are also damn good ones. I have a good one. he didn't get to be TL for 8 years by kissing butt, he did it because he does a good job and backs up his ENTIRE team.
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Post by brenteskridge on Feb 11, 2012 3:34:45 GMT -5
Jr, I think Bryan was being funny when he was answering his own question. He can correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think the company would want a TL to be a bid job as compared to them having the right to select who they want as a team leader. We are not going to let the company hand pick the TL's. Do you think if they could pick that they would take seniority into consideration? I know you don't think they would, but when it comes time to vote that is when we will see what our brothers and sisters think about this contract.
Trinitus, if you go over to LAP you keep what seniority you have. You don't lose it. The process is one for one on the moves up to a 150 people. If only 90 want to come here from LAP then that's all that will get to go over there.
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Post by nvsked1 on Feb 11, 2012 3:43:05 GMT -5
Kess lighten up here.... I just thought when you used the word "believe" it was a poor choice of words uncharacteristic of you... Typically you quote contract believe just hit a note... My bad Secondly as other posters have pointed out, just because the will of the people a few years ago was to elect TL, doesn't mean it will stay that way. Maybe people have had their fill of elected TL's and are ready for change...it does happen especially at a higher pay rate As far as the members who say "they'll never go for that" I'm glad you weren't negotiating the contracts way back when... The UAW would have nothing...
Read more: scottrlap.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=rumors&action=display&thread=11579&page=1#ixzz1m3n3wKxe
Sorry but this wasn't directed at you but other posters who say we've tried these things the company won't go for it.... I hear that used a lot I think it's a cop out...an excuse not to try, not buying it Like casino's you want a bet that casinos keep being brought up till it passes... same logic with contract demands, just harden our resolve till it passes if the membership is really behind the issue, not we tried Oh well. Again not aimed at you but other posters wanting to throw in the towel... Enough said it obvious its been a though negotiating season
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whut
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Post by whut on Feb 11, 2012 5:12:57 GMT -5
Wow! And all I want is to for them to make a non-Ford lot down by Stamping.
TLs being an elected position is ok because they do get held accountable but it should be a bid job. I had some crappy Upgraders at LAP but they would get sorted out by the people under them constantly griping and making them do things. If you took care of your team, your team took care of you. If you sucked, your team made sure you were going to be busy
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Post by gocards on Feb 11, 2012 5:56:38 GMT -5
One thing Kess said was You guys are funny. You claim the union leadership doesnt respect seniority ignoring the fact that we ALREADY TRIED TO PASS A CONTACT WITH BID TEAMLEADERS!!!!!!! Brought to you by this same leadership. I know it fits your ability to bash us to ignore that we already tried it
But actually things has changed (Epperson in Allen H out) So things change and if we as a Union can't change we will be in trouble in the future. Just because people didnt want things 3 years ago don't mean they are not more educated about the situation now and ready for change. Yes KTP voted down TL bid but things change it might be different. But as you say people spoke when they voted down the contract. I Hate to say but it is Starting to sound like a bunch of Republicans. Its what are people want. (true or false let the people decide) Everyone changes there mind sometime, but don't want to start trouble and keeps quiet about it just goes along but when they vote they are the only one that knows. So you never really know till it is voted on(its the American way)
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jpw69
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Post by jpw69 on Feb 11, 2012 7:14:27 GMT -5
WOW i sure hope all the comments about wanting the right to work to be brought into ky is just alot of SARCASM !! JUST SAYING !!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by fordmakesnosense on Feb 11, 2012 7:57:00 GMT -5
i have to agree with go cards....saying that things have changed......i think the fact that adding more money an hour to the team leader position would make alot of difference as to whether it should be a bid job or not.....just because it didnt pass 3 years ago doesnt mean it wouldnt now especially since we have new people....not only that but a team leader would have less people if it went down to 10 per team...wouldnt that create more jobs?
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Post by nvsked1 on Feb 11, 2012 9:48:23 GMT -5
AND HAY! ONE MORE COMMENT FOR THE ADMINISTRATORS.....
We need a like button like on face book, so when we agree with a post it shows up!
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Post by nvsked1 on Feb 11, 2012 9:54:05 GMT -5
I'm sure they fixed many things in the new local, but it's a shame the east end of this local is too far broken to ever be considered acceptable. I am beginning to understand why so many of you KTPers gave up and quit fighting years ago, but I have way too much fight left in me to ever lay down. Agree some of the union membership does a great job trying to re-enforce the status quo ... I guess that's the way its always been
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