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Post by theycandothat93 on Feb 11, 2012 10:20:05 GMT -5
Three years ago, three years ago, Here is my take on three years ago, Three years ago we was getting our first black president, three years ago Laden and Gadhafi was still in charge, three years ago hoosiers had another bridge to cross, three years ago we had not had a oil spill in the Gulf, Three years ago i was laid off twenty wks. three years ago GM and Chrysler were getting bailed out. Yes i know they are all not three years to the day, but you get the point, three years alot can change. Guess when im retired the number will be 14. "14 years ago they voted it down" SENIORITY RULES.
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rkr
Amateur
Posts: 103
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Post by rkr on Feb 11, 2012 11:51:10 GMT -5
from what i'm seeing, alot of you on here may be from the old heavy truck era, where when they brought the CLT to KTP you were all for the modern operating agreement as long as it didn't affect you on the heavy truck line, but once heavy truck was gone and you got thrown into the same agreement that you voted in for the new hires, then all of a suden it wasn't worth a crap.( sounds familiar with the last contract also.) Point is no matter what your senority or when you hired in, your going to vote with what is in your best interest to protect your own ass. union brotherhood looks good on paper but does it really work in reality?
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Post by ks2kwik on Feb 11, 2012 12:29:31 GMT -5
I have seen the work that you as the bargaining are doing but I think everyone of you are missing the picture, How about #1 you do something about the way management is treating people on the floor every day. If you had a foreman an mps and a super all out to get you the you would be screwed to. #2 Why don't you do something about the people who are on medical and get treated like shit by supervision. #3 Why don't you make your people under you do there jobs by being out on the floor and actually do something like time study! ergonomics! safety! #4 Everything that happens on the floor is not always the hourly peoples fault, but yet when an hourly person gets thrown out which is quite often if you do deem that it has merit, and a grievance is written why then does it take so long for us to loose the grievance anyways. then you wont help us to take it further like to say international. In our contract why don't you put in there that the grievance procedure should take no longer than 3 months. By the time you guys get around to it 18 months has gone by and it is pointless to have written it in the first place. If you really want to help the membership then do something that will help us on the floor every day. When this contract passes will the clerk job go up for bid by seniority or will manage pick the person that they want like the one that his only job is getting the M-10's for management. this should be a bid job but he is carried on the tpps drot but when they cut jobs he wasn't part of that. We are here and listening but your just not hearing us. and as far as I'm concerned the team leader jobs should be bid jobs not reserved for (SA)'s
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Post by justmefornow on Feb 11, 2012 12:42:48 GMT -5
You stated something about having around 870 bid jobs....We would have had around 1000 if you guys hadn't let them do away with clean-up and then letting them cut the tpps jobs. You let them do away with 100 jobs but then get 20 something for driving and you want us to give you a pat n the back...go figure. When they did do the driving jobs...you made everyone jump through hoops, go to interviews to see if management liked you or if you were so called qualified, then they just picked who they wanted. Anymore if seems you have to be a s*** a** to get a decent job. When I hired in back in 98 I could look around the plant and think "At least when I'm about to retire there will be plenty of jobs that I can do after they have beat me down on the line." Now....Looks like we will all spend our final years busting our asses like new hires.
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Post by gocards on Feb 11, 2012 14:46:24 GMT -5
Hey Kess just wondering you think 870 bids jobs are a lot of bids why dont you call around other plants to see how many bid jobs they have. You might be surprised for the number of people KTP has in the plant I bet the % would be toward the bottom. Heck LAP had that many bids for thier people going back. Not counting on the ones who bid before thier plant closed.
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Post by kessinger on Feb 12, 2012 2:21:02 GMT -5
Yes junior during the discussions their intent was to grandfather.
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Post by kessinger on Feb 12, 2012 2:55:10 GMT -5
trinitus 1. No you do not go with day one seniority. You carry all your seniority to LAP you just do not retain seniority rights to KTP.
2. perfect attendance everyone will get a certificate. But yes only ten will get a large award. Either a big screen TV or laptop or something along those lines. Many members over the years have asked if we can give away a vehicle. We cant get there yet but we thought this may be better than getting a $25 gift certificate.
3. heat stress: yes it is only 2 bottles but, you post here often and you have seen how much many people hate the made up gatorade and the belief that they are unsanitary.
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Post by kessinger on Feb 12, 2012 2:58:49 GMT -5
Nvsked1 posted: "Sorry but this wasn't directed at you but other posters who say we've tried these things the company won't go for it.... I hear that used a lot I think it's a cop out...an excuse not to try, not buying it"
My bad then, with you quoting my post above it and that part about negotiating I thought it was towards me.
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Post by kessinger on Feb 12, 2012 3:06:42 GMT -5
theycandothat, 3 yrs ago KTP voted it down for the TL issue and we changed it, if they vote it down this time due to the TL issue............guess what?
But, I have walked and talked to a lot of people on nights Friday after they got highlights and the TL issue only came up about 5 times, only one wanting it. So, thus far I haven't seen an outcry to change it. Last time i could not talk to two people with out one of them motherf*&cking me for trying to bid team leaders.
And I am confident at least one of these new account posters wanting bid TL's is a manager.
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Post by kessinger on Feb 12, 2012 3:18:42 GMT -5
ks2kwik, you don't really give me details that I can answer to. If you need my help call 2409 or call 429- 2688 and have them page me.
Though some one here are not fans of me, everyone that has contact me through this website or phone gets my best effort, even the one that have wacked on me the personal messaged me to help em. It may not always go the way you or me want it to but you will get my best effort and THE TRUTH!!!!!
I can't help if I don't know about it.
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Post by kessinger on Feb 12, 2012 3:26:45 GMT -5
justformeknow, We agree the driving jobs should not have been by interview. We were told by the IUAW we had to, but after months of fighting that is now fixed. I will have to check if those bids just came down or are about to go up. I am not sure, but they are now done by seniority.
I don't think i ever asked anyone to pat me on the back. I have been doing this job a long time. I am very aware there will be no pats on the back.
And to clear the record there were no where near 130 cleanup people.
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Post by kessinger on Feb 12, 2012 3:31:16 GMT -5
justformeknow, we have people with 98 doing inspection, driving forklift, hell till about 4 months ago we had one 98er doing weld inspection, and a couple in subsystems which is some of the best jobs in the plant. If you have 98 and want a bid job bid.
But no 98 will not currently get you a driving job.
And for the record, what took the 98 people out of sub is them being reduced out of sub because some of the interviewed drive people returned to sub as they had the right to. And now their formerly interviewed driving job will become a bid. And it sucks for the two 98ers they are both good guys, consider both of them friends. But making the driving jobs bid was right thing to do, just wish all that other interview crap hadn't happened.
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Post by marcus on Feb 12, 2012 5:48:37 GMT -5
"But, I have walked and talked to a lot of people on nights Friday after they got highlights and the TL issue only came up about 5 times, only one wanting it"
That was on nights with low senority.
It should be a up or down vote with no grandfather crap.
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Post by trinitus on Feb 12, 2012 9:01:18 GMT -5
trinitus 1. No you do not go with day one seniority. You carry all your seniority to LAP you just do not retain seniority rights to KTP. 2. perfect attendance everyone will get a certificate. But yes only ten will get a large award. Either a big screen TV or laptop or something along those lines. Many members over the years have asked if we can give away a vehicle. We cant get there yet but we thought this may be better than getting a $25 gift certificate. 3. heat stress: yes it is only 2 bottles but, you post here often and you have seen how much many people hate the made up gatorade and the belief that they are unsanitary. 1. Without the RTBU rights, I don't think there will be many taker's, especially for the ones that are at LAP. Also, what will happen to the KTP or LAP member's that made these transfers before this contract, will they still have the RTBU rights or are they now at their new home plant? 2. I made the perfect attendance a time or two before, may even have made it in 2011 don't know for sure yet. Even though a $25 gift card isn't exactly what I would want but I think more than a piece of paper is far less than what people who come to work everyday is expecting. True, Ford doesn't have to reward us for showing up and doing what they hired us for but a little incentive goes a long way for some. Maybe give out some of those rechargeable radio's that are on the market. People in the plant do like to listen to music while we work and that is something I think most would be glad to get but that is just one person's opinion. 3. I have to agree, not many fan's of the crap they made in the past. I do think two drinks in a ten hour shift is a little low though. On the other hand I don't think most would even take the two free drink either so what else is new. Just some people will find fault for everything. I personally will take my free drinks, if it is free why not. I still think with all the waiting we had to do for this contract, there should have been a little more in there. then again, getting the company to spend money on broke down equipment and replacing the worn out ones is something that shouldn't be in it. That is part of doing business and they know that much. It is not our lift driver's fault when we run out of stock on the line because there is no charge on their lift or there is no lift available. Cleaner and working fan's on the line would be a better idea for all of us but hey I am just one man.
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Post by justmefornow on Feb 12, 2012 10:05:05 GMT -5
Kess, I have 98 seniority and I do have a bid job. I drive a fork lift, that IS NOT a job to retire on. Don't get me wrong it def. beats being tied to the line but not matter what the problem...fork lift dead, monitor not working, the other shift leaving you in the hole, having to travel to god knows where to get stock...it's always your fault. Call your team leader, call your supervisor...yeah right, been there done that then when you get caught on the phone calling them they want to write you up. The stress is unreal, but we do what we can and hope for the best. As far as not being 130 jobs in cleanup...I have no idea of the exact number but you do see where I'm going with that. Bid jobs that should have NEVER went away! You are right the interview thing should have never happened but it did and they let it. I put in for the driving job myself and didn't get it. Why??? It was a popularity thing. It just seems that after reading the highlights several times, I really don't see much that we gained. Like another poster said, alot of it is maintenance of equipment and stuff that they already know they need to do, why should we have to have it in a contract??
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Post by nvsked1 on Feb 12, 2012 10:11:09 GMT -5
Nvsked1 posted: "Sorry but this wasn't directed at you but other posters who say we've tried these things the company won't go for it.... I hear that used a lot I think it's a cop out...an excuse not to try, not buying it" My bad then, with you quoting my post above it and that part about negotiating I thought it was towards me. No my bad... I could have defined the post better
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Post by justmefornow on Feb 12, 2012 10:48:20 GMT -5
When they decided to redo the driving thing, why did they not go back to the original list of people? I'll tell you why...because the top people were not preferred by the company or union, so they decided to put it up for bid again and see where it took them and what choices they had to choose from. One of the things in the local that they are trying to sell is if a bid job is filled but they need more people within 30 days then they will go by that list...Kinda contradicts itself doesn't it? I'm not going to mention names but what about the clerk job in TPPS and torque...will that job be put up for bid or is it already a done deal by the buddy system??? "Within management"
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Feb 12, 2012 11:29:04 GMT -5
I like the Gatorade idea...much better than the moldy containers. There will be more than 150 ppl signing up to transfer to LAP. Lots of ppl can prolly hold days at LAP, but not at KTP? Giving ppl a one time chance to give up their bid is a great idea...I'm sure there are quite a few stuck on avg bids that can't bid on something else to give it up. I appreciate Kess coming on here and taking his time to provide answers to the posters. I thought the attendance award for 10 ppl sounded horrible at first, but getting a TV or laptop vs. the current setup (nothing) is an improvement. But I don't think I would give certificates to the others...just put them all in a lottery and draw the 10 winners. The certificate isn't needed for the other 1,000 or so...waste of time, paper and money. Many of us have to realize KTP is kind of a younger plant...with so many younger employees having no respect for the senior employees, the TL will always remain by election. They won't realize it sucks until they are in our shoes. If I think of some other positives, I'll post them up.
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Post by lapwasktp on Feb 12, 2012 13:57:16 GMT -5
Because you guys are talking about DRIVING jobs, I heard LAP was getting 75 Yard Driving Jobs back from Teamsters.. Is there any truth to that ?? I assume these will be bid jobs... Any word
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Post by Jr on Feb 12, 2012 14:13:54 GMT -5
Because you guys are talking about DRIVING jobs, I heard LAP was getting 75 Yard Driving Jobs back from Teamsters.. Is there any truth to that ?? I assume these will be bid jobs... Any word The Union has Bidded on the Jobs but I haven't heard if they got the Contract from Ford yet or Not.
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Post by kessinger on Feb 12, 2012 15:09:41 GMT -5
trinitus, THis will not change the contractual rights of any other transfer, if you had RTBU before this you will have it after, it only affects the people that sign up for this. On perfect attendance, this is just a difference of opinion, we just felt that Big rewards, though only for a few, would be more of an incentive. The gift certificates from the past didn't even equal one hours pay, until the 2 tier. The replacing of the forks was not what we were negotiating for, the fans were. But, if we get better equipment to that is ok by me.
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Post by kessinger on Feb 12, 2012 15:17:55 GMT -5
justmefornow stated "I'm not going to mention names but what about the clerk job in TPPS and torque...will that job be put up for bid or is it already a done deal by the buddy system??? "Within management"
answer: these have always done by seniority, you have to be able to use a computer but they are seniority.
The reason we did not go back to the "signup" list is that that wasn't a true bid. Some people didn't sign up due to not wanting the hassle of the interview. So the bid makes sure you get the sen. person.
The language about the 30 days is old language not new. And it doesn't say we will use that list. A bid is only good for 30 days. If you need more people after that you bid it again. Not sure what you think that meant.
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Post by kessinger on Feb 12, 2012 15:23:26 GMT -5
lapwasktp, I AM HEARING the UAW is getting them as a whole, they are going to be Voith I think, not LAP/FORD. We won't push for that here because Voith pays less than the company that is doing it with the teamsters. I don't see that as a good move just to build numbers. But again, that is just what I am hearing I am not close enough to that issue to know for sure, the LAP rumor mill may be a better source.
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Post by kessinger on Feb 12, 2012 15:25:10 GMT -5
Thx Scott
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Post by nvsked1 on Feb 12, 2012 16:39:34 GMT -5
justmefornow stated "I'm not going to mention names but what about the clerk job in TPPS and torque...will that job be put up for bid or is it already a done deal by the buddy system??? "Within management" answer: these have always done by seniority, you have to be able to use a computer but they are seniority. The reason we did not go back to the "signup" list is that that wasn't a true bid. Some people didn't sign up due to not wanting the hassle of the interview. So the bid makes sure you get the sen. person. The language about the 30 days is old language not new. And it doesn't say we will use that list. A bid is only good for 30 days. If you need more people after that you bid it again. Not sure what you think that meant. Ok Kess this one directing to you, not about you.... And I've seen the events I'm about to describe occur. 30 days for a bid is not long enough! Company puts up a bid... people sign up, company looks who signed up, decides they don't like the choices, BS's around for couple weeks maybe managers go speak to people, all of sudden 30 days passes, now they need new signup....WHAM different people sign up for bid, company fills position this time around and they get their hand picked people..... Total BS Bids should be good for 6 months they need more people go back to original sign up... AND No BSing around with the list letting sign up expire .... Seen this in action
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Post by dtptolap on Feb 12, 2012 18:45:25 GMT -5
So reading some of this, are they letting KTP sign up for LAP or have they already done that?
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Feb 13, 2012 2:06:32 GMT -5
Once the local is ratified, there will be an opportunity for up to 150 ppl to sign up to transfer to LAP.
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Post by uawhater71 on Feb 14, 2012 12:05:30 GMT -5
Maybe I we can get Jimmy Settles to stop shaking hands with Alan Mullally he might be able to find out what's going on with our grievance.
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Post by kessinger on Feb 15, 2012 22:34:16 GMT -5
nvsked, too late to change that now. But, I deal with bids all the time and have not seen this. When the bid goes up there is a reason it does. So we make them accept the people for the opening's they origianly bid for.
There are times that we have , for example, metal testing for metal repair. If they sit on their asses and don't get everyone tested that needs to be we hold that bid open in order for that to happen. We don't allow them to wait then close it without accepting someone.
Now fighting about the fair treatment in the tests is a whole other subject.
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Post by kessinger on Feb 15, 2012 22:38:03 GMT -5
To clarify on the transfer, LAP has to get through step 8 in the contract before we can send people.
So when they add the 3rd shift this summer, they will have to ask any laid off employees, and others that must be asked in contractual steps, then we here at KTP/LAP will sign up and transfer.
We expect this to be towards end of summer based on what we are being told about LAP's timeline.
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