mbt52
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Post by mbt52 on Jan 11, 2013 23:01:02 GMT -5
Making the trip to Frankfort the 19th for Gun Appreciation day. I suggest you do the same
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2013 15:20:31 GMT -5
I will be there as well. Never understood why the gov. never banned automobiles. More people are killed by them on a daily basis then firearms.
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Post by hotcarl on Jan 12, 2013 18:49:47 GMT -5
You gun nuts crack me up. Nobody is taking your guns. Name one politician who has said that they are going to do that.
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Post by wallflower on Jan 12, 2013 22:15:43 GMT -5
You need to be more specific. Machine guns and many others were regulated in 1934 and require about a 12 month background check and $300 tax stamp to own.
Many knee jerk Democrat politicians have proposed everything from banning everything other than a single shot firearm (Connetticut) to forcing a surrender of all "assault weapons" (A term created by the military to define full auto weapons and twisted by the Dimocrats for the 1994 ban). You can continue to walk around with your eyes and ears shut, or you can educate yourself a bit which would allow you to have a conversation about the subject.
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Post by tryingtomakeit on Jan 12, 2013 22:53:49 GMT -5
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Post by hotcarl on Jan 13, 2013 0:04:38 GMT -5
That is 17 years old stuff that didn't get passed then nor will it now. Doesn't it take a 75% majority to change the constitution? A handful of the extreme lefties cannot pull that off, dummy. Most of you gun nuts don't even know what the second ammenment actually states. They think that it gives them the right to own any arm that they please. Read the whole ammendment and then get back with me. Also, in the mean time, look up the definition of "regulated". Whether you like it or not, there must be a regulated limit to what a civilian is allowed to own. You guys do realize that someone in your family is more likely to die of an accidental shooting at the hand of your guns than from someone who you are "trying" to protect them from, don't you?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2013 13:55:20 GMT -5
That is 17 years old stuff that didn't get passed then nor will it now. Doesn't it take a 75% majority to change the constitution? A handful of the extreme lefties cannot pull that off, dummy. Most of you gun nuts don't even know what the second ammenment actually states. They think that it gives them the right to own any arm that they please. Read the whole ammendment and then get back with me. Also, in the mean time, look up the definition of "regulated". Whether you like it or not, there must be a regulated limit to what a civilian is allowed to own. You guys do realize that someone in your family is more likely to die of an accidental shooting at the hand of your guns than from someone who you are "trying" to protect them from, don't you? Just like a liberal. Ignore the facts, resort to name calling and live in a world of unicorns. Diane Finestien, Ny Mayor Bloomberg, Chucky Schumer and many other libs have all ready said that we the people shouldn't own any firearms. And for you that say the 2nd Amendment was ment for muskets and muzzle loaders think about this: Those were state of the art weapons back then. We the people owned the same weapons that our police and military carried back then. Now days I dont think we can legally purchase an M1 Abrhams or Apache attack chopper. Truth be told our country lacks in mental health care worse then any others. Too bad the libs wont do anything to help those with mental disorders instead of going after us sane, legal, law abiding citizens. "Gun Nuts"? You must have hatred or fear of us that enjoy sport shooting, hunting and the right to self defense. I guarantee Iam more sane then you are. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2013 14:18:59 GMT -5
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Post by wallflower on Jan 13, 2013 14:31:30 GMT -5
"Projection". Psychological term that is used to describe how those that want to ban firearms got to that point.
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Post by ktpelec on Jan 13, 2013 15:40:02 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2013 16:19:05 GMT -5
That is your OPINION. I can reload a 10 round magazine just as fast as a 30 and fire just as many rounds. This 10 round mag limit was started by Bill Ruger of Ruger Firearms. 99% of his firearms used 10 round mags, so that was a great marketing move on his point. He sold this idea to Biden and Fienstien in 1994 and they ran with it. Now that POS is dead and the Ruger company has moved on with their own petition to STOP THIS NEW STUPID AWB: www.ruger.com/micros/advocacy/takeAction.html. Timothy McVeigh couldnt buy a firearm but he could buy fertilizer and rent a truck. A new AWB will do nothing to stop evil people. Evil will be evil reguardless. There are so many law abiding citizens that own AR's & AK's, that enjoy them at ranges every day. Please, dont ignore facts and fall into the Kool-Aid gang class of people. Do your own research. Firearms with high capacity mags account for less then 3% of any firearm related crimes. And those are either stollen or obtained illegally. |
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Post by wallflower on Jan 13, 2013 16:51:36 GMT -5
Ktpelec, you have mastered the art of parading about the democrat party stance on all issues. This topic is no different. I'm sure that a couple of us would love to hear you expound on your position. Likely, you can't as the facts and statistics aren't there to back it up. Learn to research. Learn to form your own opinions. Only then can you become enlightened.
Edited for typo. Damn tablets!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2013 17:41:41 GMT -5
it peles, you have mastered the art of parading about the democrat party stance on all issues. This topic is no different. I'm sure that a couple of us would love to hear you expound on your position. Likely, you can't as the facts and statistics aren't there to back it up. Learn to research. Learn to form your own opinions. Only then can you become enlightened. Who was you addressing? |
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Post by wallflower on Jan 13, 2013 20:55:22 GMT -5
Fixed
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Post by ktpelec on Jan 13, 2013 21:27:49 GMT -5
Of course its my opinion, we are all entitled to have one... LOL
I made no mention of any Political party, and every poll done recently says that the vast majority of Americans, regardless of political party, feels that stricter controls are needed to avoid the needless deaths of innocent Americans due to gun violence.
Less than 25% of Americans own guns now, and the likelyhood of being injured or injuring someone innocent with a gun far out weighs the posibility of having to defend yourself with one. The responsible gun owner is not the problem, keeping weapons out of the wrong hands should be the intention.
In my opinion, there has to be some kind of change, as Americans we just can't ignore the needless deaths of our innocent fellow Americans. I support the views of Ms. Gifford, military type weapons and accessories shouldn't be available to just anyone, stricter background checks, including mental health, perhaps along with mandatory safety courses.
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Post by wallflower on Jan 13, 2013 22:37:36 GMT -5
Try again:
In 1995, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, whose employees routinely carry such weapons in the line of duty, estimated that the number of firearms available in the US was 223 million.[8] In 2011 34% of adults in the United States personally owned a gun; 46% of adult men, and 23% of adult women. In 2011 47% of the adult U.S. population lived in households with guns.[9][10] In 2005 almost 18% of U.S. households possessed handguns, compared to almost 3% of households in Canada that possessed handguns.[11]
Taken from wikipedia after about a 30 second search. And the fact that many gun owners will not admit to owning a firearm because it is nobody's business, skews the results.
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Post by ktpelec on Jan 13, 2013 23:02:32 GMT -5
Aah Wiki... Not always the accurate truth though, I should have stated it differently, less than 25% own handguns, when you add in all other types of guns it is higher. Either way, it's hardly a majority.
The US also has more guns than every other civilized nation in the world, and the highest rate of gun violence to go along with them...
Again, I don't care about the responsible gun owners, they aren't the problem...
Also a law was put into effect during President Bush's term regulating the sale of ammonium nitrate in response of the Oklahoma City bombing.
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Post by wallflower on Jan 13, 2013 23:11:31 GMT -5
Then you agree. Leave the firearm laws the way they are. We need to instead focus on the nut behind the trigger, the wheel, etc. Changing laws or implementing taxes won't change a thing.
An AR15 is as much a weapon of war as a Fusion with AERO wheels and Goodyear Eagle slicks is ready to qualify at Daytona.
It's all about packaging. The AR is, in reality, not that different than Gran Pappy's deer rifle.
"Weapons of War" have been heavily regulated since the GCA of 1934. Please, educate yourself a bit and resist the easy way out of being spoonfed talking points by liberal politicians and liberal media. There is more emotion and rhetoric in the gun control argument with less understanding of factual information than any other issue at hand. This, ktpelec and others, is why many who understand the subject and see the perversion of the media don't believe them when they speak of other hot topics.
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Post by wallflower on Jan 13, 2013 23:18:51 GMT -5
And you think ammonium nitrate isn't still available or there isn't a substitute? A perfect example of punishing everyday people with feel good legislation. Do yourself a favor and look up binary explosives. Easily made with readily available ingredients or available mail order at a very affordable price. Perfectly legal untill mixed and STORED. Use it as you mix and no problem. If politicians want to regulate something, regulate parents. Make them take and pass a class before they can have a baby. Tax their kids to cover necessary expenses. Track the parents and children and make them accountable for their whereabouts at all times. Make anyone that is in possession of someone elses kid pay for a license of such. These are just some of the restrictions that follow firearms. Untill parents become active in their kids' lives again, and not by being their friend, but being a parent, we will continue the downward spiral. Most of these mass shootings are overpriveleged, wealthy, white males under 25. You think maybe Mommy and Daddy screwed up their chance to create a decent human being and society paid the price? Nah, nobody would admit to that. Far more people are parents than handgun owners.
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Post by ktpelec on Jan 13, 2013 23:24:17 GMT -5
No, I don't agree, as I stated, I agree with Ms. Giffords view as I posted, there needs to be a change, and most Americans agree.
Technology in automobiles has continually changed throughout the years, saving countless lives.
Only a few decades ago driving while impaired was widely accepted and a "normal" part of our society. After thousands of needless deaths though Americans decided there needed to be a change... and it has occurred.
Military type assault rifles are vastly different than my grandfathers rifle, capable of killing a high percentage of people very easily.
I've posted many facts concerning gun deaths, every one of them available through any type of media. For me it's not a political thing and never will be, it's a saving American lives thing, and always will be.
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Post by ktpelec on Jan 13, 2013 23:37:39 GMT -5
No regulation or law is perfect or all encompassing, but there hasn't been that type of terror attack since that I know of, so it must be working. Unfortunately most US families need both parents to work, leaving their children without valuable parental time. Everyone's idea of what is appropriate for their children is different also. But that's another Topic....  G'nite |
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Post by justaworker on Jan 14, 2013 10:56:57 GMT -5
both sides can make good arguments. in the end, if gun ownership needs to be limited...then its way down on the list of ways to fix the problems this country has.
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Post by ktpelec on Jan 16, 2013 5:59:21 GMT -5
both sides can make good arguments. in the end, if gun ownership needs to be limited...then its way down on the list of ways to fix the problems this country has. I don't think the huge percentage of gun violence victims and their families feel this way... |
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Post by wallflower on Jan 16, 2013 7:20:49 GMT -5
How do you think victims of drunk driving feel? It isn't about feelings. It's about facts. The fact is that our forefathers intended for the citizens of this country to have a means to resist tyranny. That is supported by numerous public writings including the Federalist Papers. At the time the documents were written, citizens could and did own start of the art weaponry. And, as a side note, there is a patent on a machine gun going back to the early 1700's.
If it is your opinion that modern firearms are for self defense or hunting, so be it. The facts don't support your opinion.
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Post by ktpelec on Jan 16, 2013 9:56:31 GMT -5
both sides can make good arguments. in the end, if gun ownership needs to be limited...then its way down on the list of ways to fix the problems this country has. I don't think the huge percentage of gun violence victims and their families feel this way... Thats all I meant, gun violence is a serious problem in the US, that is a fact. Alcohol related driving deaths have gone down every year with the addition of stricter laws, that has to make every American feel better. |
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Post by cal50 on Jan 16, 2013 14:40:32 GMT -5
Of course its my opinion, we are all entitled to have one... LOL I made no mention of any Political party, and every poll done recently says that the vast majority of Americans, regardless of political party, feels that stricter controls are needed to avoid the needless deaths of innocent Americans due to gun violence. Less than 25% of Americans own guns now, and the likelyhood of being injured or injuring someone innocent with a gun far out weighs the posibility of having to defend yourself with one. The responsible gun owner is not the problem, keeping weapons out of the wrong hands should be the intention. In my opinion, there has to be some kind of change, as Americans we just can't ignore the needless deaths of our innocent fellow Americans. I support the views of Ms. Gifford, military type weapons and accessories shouldn't be available to just anyone, stricter background checks, including mental health, perhaps along with mandatory safety courses. That is so full of shit on so many levels.... Why don't you extrapolate data for people that have a chain saw, a kitchen chair or ladder in their home that are injured with it? They are all inanimate objects yet can cause death or injury if improperly used or abused by the OPERATOR. Military weapons (real assault weapon) are already controlled and not freely available on the street now. Everything else is simply a modern semi-automatic firearm. The democrat flash card for weapon identification~  |
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Post by justaworker on Jan 16, 2013 15:21:35 GMT -5
both sides can make good arguments. in the end, if gun ownership needs to be limited...then its way down on the list of ways to fix the problems this country has. I don't think the huge percentage of gun violence victims and their families feel this way... maybe not, but one would hope that we would have political leaders that were smart enough not to make rash decisions based on "feelings". but we both know thats not true, as the libs say...never let a good crisis go to waste. we should all hope for good leadership in a time like this. sadly, we all know we don't really have a leader. |
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Post by wallflower on Jan 16, 2013 21:20:52 GMT -5
I don't think the huge percentage of gun violence victims and their families feel this way... Thats all I meant, gun violence is a serious problem in the US, that is a fact. Alcohol related driving deaths have gone down every year with the addition of stricter laws, that has to make every American feel better. You make a most excellent point. Thank you. Less alcohol use while combined with driving has resulted in fewer deaths in that combination. Whether or not it is due to laws or education or God forbid some moral conscience is up for debate. Similarly, but different, when States, Counties, and Localities have passed a Concealed Carry law, gun deaths during crime as well as violent crime in general has gone down. (Unfortunately, the number of dead thugs figures into the number of gun deaths. So the CCW numbers are a bit skewed. You don't typically hear of individuals defending themselves in the media.) See, alcohol and guns. You don't have to use them to get results. There is nothing common sense about anything that has been discussed with the exception of the mental health and firearms issue. The only thing that you can object to about that is the fact that thanks to Obamacare, your medical records going forward go into a database accessible to docs and the .gov. When they decide which mental conditions preclude you from owning a firearm, it will get interesting. What if stats show that people are most likely to commit violent crime withing two weeks of losing a job? What if anyone that has EVER taken an SSRI is exempted from ownership? (remember, docs hand 'em out like candy these days) What if they deem people going through divorce too unstable for ownership? See where this is going? These laws are great if you write the dictionary. Everybody wants to solve a problem in this country. Nobody wants to find the cause. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2013 14:12:50 GMT -5
Gun owners have been their own worst enemy calling these semi-auto rifles assault rifles. The ATF defines an assault rifle as being capable of fully automatic fire. No ban affected guns are. Full auto has been regulated since the 30s like someone mentioned and also banned from manufacture for civilian sales since 1986.
Hi- cap mags and semi-auto rifles, even the menacing looking ones, should be legal because they have a legal application for self defense. By contrast, machine guns, hand grenades, nuclear weapons have no legal application for self defense and are illegal.( except for the heavily regulated machine guns that were registered prior to a certain date in 1986.)
Learn about guns before you feel qualified to influence policy. And not from tv. Gun culture isn't the threat.
registration is the first step toward confiscation. Don't think it's not just because the gun grabbers say it isn't.
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Post by pmooret on Jan 17, 2013 16:08:12 GMT -5
People are now dependent upon the goverment for their health care and now they want to regulate your guns. Where is this headed?
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