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Post by nra4life on Nov 16, 2015 10:00:21 GMT -5
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Nov 16, 2015 10:15:33 GMT -5
Thanks
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Post by beaner on Nov 16, 2015 14:06:13 GMT -5
Looks pretty even to me. Is there a list of days when everyone else votes?
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Post by THAT GIRL on Nov 16, 2015 14:31:43 GMT -5
Scott or Tony can you guys lock this page so the results can be monitored without all the other clutter? Thanks
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Post by nra4life on Nov 16, 2015 15:13:32 GMT -5
Looks pretty even to me. Is there a list of days when everyone else votes? No locals voting today, picks back up tomorrow with I beieve everyone done by Thursday |
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Post by Ktp1989 on Nov 16, 2015 15:22:43 GMT -5
Holiday today so next 3 days will tell the story
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Post by lap65 on Nov 16, 2015 17:28:08 GMT -5
KC voting it down is big, the other 3 at least 2 are pretty small numbers employee wise. But looks like it could go either way right now. Big no here. some good in it but more bad that outweighs the good for me, nothing for retirees present or future to amount to anything, 8 years to reach top pay is ridiculous, especially when top pay will be less than $2 more an hour than 18 years earlier. Not nearly enough for legacy in my opinion & healthcare is still open to interpretation in a couple years and they really couldnt give back 6 minutes of break ?? Really? They could easily make them top out by contract end, give legacy at the very least 4 / 4% raises & still given a $10000 signing bonus without borrowing from profit sharing & it wouldn't put a dent in the BILLIONS in profit they have been raking in the last few years. I personally think with the rest the signing bonus wouldnt even need to be as big, but just my opinion. I would have said we dont even sit down to talk without a $2 /hr raise just to get things started, but we will end up with less than that over the life of the contract.
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Post by justaworker on Nov 16, 2015 18:26:06 GMT -5
KC voting it down is big, the other 3 at least 2 are pretty small numbers employee wise. But looks like it could go either way right now. Big no here. some good in it but more bad that outweighs the good for me, nothing for retirees present or future to amount to anything, 8 years to reach top pay is ridiculous, especially when top pay will be less than $2 more an hour than 18 years earlier. Not nearly enough for legacy in my opinion & healthcare is still open to interpretation in a couple years and they really couldnt give back 6 minutes of break ?? Really? They could easily make them top out by contract end, give legacy at the very least 4 / 4% raises & still given a $10000 signing bonus without borrowing from profit sharing & it wouldn't put a dent in the BILLIONS in profit they have been raking in the last few years. I personally think with the rest the signing bonus wouldnt even need to be as big, but just my opinion. I would have said we dont even sit down to talk without a $2 /hr raise just to get things started, but we will end up with less than that over the life of the contract. i looked through my old, original contract book this weekend. believe in 2000 top out pay was about $22. it went up quite a bit before it quit going up at all. this deal puts us above $30, finally. i agree with damn near all you say. shit, its hard not to. but those concessions aren't coming back. pattern bargaining has ended that. our insurance is going to change, its going to have to change. everybody that has insurance is seeing major changes. also agree that there is not much in here for legacy. this is the result of being separated by tiers. but this deal ends tiers, and gets us on level ground so that we can all gain in the future. |
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Post by machination on Nov 16, 2015 18:58:31 GMT -5
KC voting it down is big, the other 3 at least 2 are pretty small numbers employee wise. But looks like it could go either way right now. Big no here. some good in it but more bad that outweighs the good for me, nothing for retirees present or future to amount to anything, 8 years to reach top pay is ridiculous, especially when top pay will be less than $2 more an hour than 18 years earlier. Not nearly enough for legacy in my opinion & healthcare is still open to interpretation in a couple years and they really couldnt give back 6 minutes of break ?? Really? They could easily make them top out by contract end, give legacy at the very least 4 / 4% raises & still given a $10000 signing bonus without borrowing from profit sharing & it wouldn't put a dent in the BILLIONS in profit they have been raking in the last few years. I personally think with the rest the signing bonus wouldnt even need to be as big, but just my opinion. I would have said we dont even sit down to talk without a $2 /hr raise just to get things started, but we will end up with less than that over the life of the contract. i looked through my old, original contract book this weekend. believe in 2000 top out pay was about $22. it went up quite a bit before it quit going up at all. this deal puts us above $30, finally. i agree with damn near all you say. shit, its hard not to. but those concessions aren't coming back. pattern bargaining has ended that. our insurance is going to change, its going to have to change. everybody that has insurance is seeing major changes. also agree that there is not much in here for legacy. this is the result of being separated by tiers. but this deal ends tiers, and gets us on level ground so that we can all gain in the future. That's funny that you mention how this gets rid of tiers. I've seen a few folks on here say that this contract actually creates more tiers. They must have read something that we didn't, or they've been misled, or they're just simply delusional. I thought like you that it ends the tiers. That's how it looked to me. |
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Post by THAT GIRL on Nov 16, 2015 19:38:43 GMT -5
Lap65, since you have all the answers and fixes you should run for chairman then national negotiator. You make it sound so easy. From top to bottom it's a good agreement. I want cola back but it's gone my brother. I'm still a yes vote. Just my opinion. God bless
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Post by justaworker on Nov 16, 2015 19:57:12 GMT -5
i looked through my old, original contract book this weekend. believe in 2000 top out pay was about $22. it went up quite a bit before it quit going up at all. this deal puts us above $30, finally. i agree with damn near all you say. shit, its hard not to. but those concessions aren't coming back. pattern bargaining has ended that. our insurance is going to change, its going to have to change. everybody that has insurance is seeing major changes. also agree that there is not much in here for legacy. this is the result of being separated by tiers. but this deal ends tiers, and gets us on level ground so that we can all gain in the future. That's funny that you mention how this gets rid of tiers. I've seen a few folks on here say that this contract actually creates more tiers. They must have read something that we didn't, or they've been misled, or they're just simply delusional. I thought like you that it ends the tiers. That's how it looked to me. alot of people either cant understand the agreement, or purposely mislead others in order to try to convince them to vote the way they want them to. a few of the guys on here, are all over the facebook pages spewing lies. we get quite a chuckle out of them at work. 1. if you think this deal creates more tiers, you are either ignorant or lying. 2. if you are upset that you can now only convert two aowls per year that occur on the 1st or last day of the week, then quit reading. this post is for people that show up to work and care about their job. 3. if you are somehow questioning how an 8 year grow in to top wages can occur outside of a 4 year agreement, look around. we all hired in under one contract, and then topped out under another. 4. if you're scared about your insurance possibly changing in the future, dont be...because it will. because it always does. there are decent reasons to vote no. if you're legacy like me, there is not alot of gains in there for us. and, some of us cant get past the way we were flat out lied to during the concessions. i love reading those opinions, and share your feelings. but, im trying to look forward. i have about 15 more years in this place, and this deal sets the stage to make us all on the path to equality where we can stand together and get better gains in the future. |
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Post by Ex-metalman on Nov 16, 2015 20:43:43 GMT -5
We all hired in and it took 3 yrs to reach top pay?Dont understand the different contact thing?1995,1999 were contract years and it took 3 yrs for top pay during a 4 yr contract?
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Post by justaworker on Nov 16, 2015 20:47:57 GMT -5
We all hired in and it took 3 yrs to reach top pay?Dont understand the different contact thing?1995,1999 were contract years and it took 3 yrs for top pay during a 4 yr contract? we always have 4 year agreements, and 3 years to top out. it would be rare to top out during the same contract you hired in under. i hired in march 2002, contract year in 2003, top out in 2005..for example. just pointing out, that mathematically, its far more likely to "top out" under a different labor agreement than you hired in with. yet, many complain as if its unheard of. |
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Post by lap65 on Nov 16, 2015 21:06:18 GMT -5
Lap65, since you have all the answers and fixes you should run for chairman then national negotiator. You make it sound so easy. From top to bottom it's a good agreement. I want cola back but it's gone my brother. I'm still a yes vote. Just my opinion. God bless Absolutely dont have all the answers, as I stated that was my opinion, heaven knows you state yours. Lol |
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Post by justaworker on Nov 16, 2015 21:07:53 GMT -5
Lap65, since you have all the answers and fixes you should run for chairman then national negotiator. You make it sound so easy. From top to bottom it's a good agreement. I want cola back but it's gone my brother. I'm still a yes vote. Just my opinion. God bless Absolutely dont have all the answers, as I stated that was my opinion, heaven knows you state yours. Lol yeah man, he/she was extremely harsh. no reason for it. |
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Post by lap65 on Nov 16, 2015 21:12:06 GMT -5
That's funny that you mention how this gets rid of tiers. I've seen a few folks on here say that this contract actually creates more tiers. They must have read something that we didn't, or they've been misled, or they're just simply delusional. I thought like you that it ends the tiers. That's how it looked to me. alot of people either cant understand the agreement, or purposely mislead others in order to try to convince them to vote the way they want them to. a few of the guys on here, are all over the facebook pages spewing lies. we get quite a chuckle out of them at work. 1. if you think this deal creates more tiers, you are either ignorant or lying. 2. if you are upset that you can now only convert two aowls per year that occur on the 1st or last day of the week, then quit reading. this post is for people that show up to work and care about their job. 3. if you are somehow questioning how an 8 year grow in to top wages can occur outside of a 4 year agreement, look around. we all hired in under one contract, and then topped out under another. 4. if you're scared about your insurance possibly changing in the future, dont be...because it will. because it always does. there are decent reasons to vote no. if you're legacy like me, there is not alot of gains in there for us. and, some of us cant get past the way we were flat out lied to during the concessions. i love reading those opinions, and share your feelings. but, im trying to look forward. i have about 15 more years in this place, and this deal sets the stage to make us all on the path to equality where we can stand together and get better gains in the future. I realize all the concessions aren't coming back, what I proposed isn't even close to all of them, I was just thinking out loud. As far as the 8 year thing, it isnt as much it happening after the 2nd contract that bothers me as it is just the fact that I think they should do it sooner, the sooner we're all in the same boat, the stronger we become. |
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Post by justaworker on Nov 16, 2015 21:15:11 GMT -5
alot of people either cant understand the agreement, or purposely mislead others in order to try to convince them to vote the way they want them to. a few of the guys on here, are all over the facebook pages spewing lies. we get quite a chuckle out of them at work. 1. if you think this deal creates more tiers, you are either ignorant or lying. 2. if you are upset that you can now only convert two aowls per year that occur on the 1st or last day of the week, then quit reading. this post is for people that show up to work and care about their job. 3. if you are somehow questioning how an 8 year grow in to top wages can occur outside of a 4 year agreement, look around. we all hired in under one contract, and then topped out under another. 4. if you're scared about your insurance possibly changing in the future, dont be...because it will. because it always does. there are decent reasons to vote no. if you're legacy like me, there is not alot of gains in there for us. and, some of us cant get past the way we were flat out lied to during the concessions. i love reading those opinions, and share your feelings. but, im trying to look forward. i have about 15 more years in this place, and this deal sets the stage to make us all on the path to equality where we can stand together and get better gains in the future. I realize all the concessions aren't coming back, what I proposed isn't even close to all of them, I was just thinking out loud. As far as the 8 year thing, it isnt as much it happening after the 2nd contract that bothers me as it is just the fact that I think they should do it sooner, the sooner we're all in the same boat, the stronger we become. i totally, 100% agree. i really wish it was sooner than 8 years. but, just them being on the path to traditional wages means that when making long term contract decisions we are essentially equal. |
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Post by lap65 on Nov 16, 2015 21:20:00 GMT -5
I hear you brother, you make some good points, I just still feel like they can do better, we just all have to vote our own conscience & see what happens.
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Post by ihatemyjob on Nov 16, 2015 21:21:18 GMT -5
We all hired in and it took 3 yrs to reach top pay?Dont understand the different contact thing?1995,1999 were contract years and it took 3 yrs for top pay during a 4 yr contract? Contract was every 3 years until it changed after 2003 contract and then began every 4. I hired in 1998 and contract year was 2000 and I wasn't at top pay. The 8 year thing is no different. Hire in under one contract and max out under another. The problem is all these new people think they are smarter than all the people who have been thru this crap several times now. |
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Post by ibossjekler on Nov 16, 2015 21:26:00 GMT -5
i looked through my old, original contract book this weekend. believe in 2000 top out pay was about $22. it went up quite a bit before it quit going up at all. this deal puts us above $30, finally. i agree with damn near all you say. shit, its hard not to. but those concessions aren't coming back. pattern bargaining has ended that. our insurance is going to change, its going to have to change. everybody that has insurance is seeing major changes. also agree that there is not much in here for legacy. this is the result of being separated by tiers. but this deal ends tiers, and gets us on level ground so that we can all gain in the future. That's funny that you mention how this gets rid of tiers. I've seen a few folks on here say that this contract actually creates more tiers. They must have read something that we didn't, or they've been misled, or they're just simply delusional. I thought like you that it ends the tiers. That's how it looked to me. Once again, the parts plants were in the same 2 tier pay scale as all the other tier 2, we are having to be stuck in the same pay scale as the previous contract, the top out increased .60 in the next 4 years. In 8 years we will top out at $22.50, if you can trust a 4 year contract for 8 years. The other tier 2 at assembly are now called "in progression" workers. One issue is even chrysler uaw was able to being their parts plants into the same pay scale as the other tier 2s, so ford should be able to as well! This is not misinformation it is truth. And don't mind the fact that there are still majority tier 1 in the parts plants. So tier 2 will top out at 19.86 at these plants while we're working next to people that will be over $30 an hour with 2 lump sums at the end of this contract. Even the tier 1 voted the contract down here because of this. Look 1 page past your tier 1 pay scales in the contract and you will see it. There has been many discussions on here about it. Check out some other posts. |
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Post by ihatemyjob on Nov 16, 2015 21:35:11 GMT -5
Assembly plants make Ford money, parts plants cost Ford money. Your lucky they haven't closed it yet.
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Post by justaworker on Nov 16, 2015 21:37:03 GMT -5
We all hired in and it took 3 yrs to reach top pay?Dont understand the different contact thing?1995,1999 were contract years and it took 3 yrs for top pay during a 4 yr contract? Contract was every 3 years until it changed after 2003 contract and then began every 4. I hired in 1998 and contract year was 2000 and I wasn't at top pay. The 8 year thing is no different. Hire in under one contract and max out under another. The problem is all these new people think they are smarter than all the people who have been thru this crap several times now. Well said, the ignorance I see from so many new people is alarming. |
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Post by THAT GIRL on Nov 16, 2015 22:19:15 GMT -5
Justaworker,just exactly what do you mean he/ she ? Grow a,set. If you have a question ask me sir. I can show if you would like to see since your so curious. I have nothing to hide. I'll put my name will you?
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Post by justaworker on Nov 16, 2015 22:31:00 GMT -5
Justaworker,just exactly what do you mean he/ she ? Grow a,set. If you have a question ask me sir. I can show if you would like to see since your so curious. I have nothing to hide. I'll put my name will you? I have no question, did I ask a question? I said he/she because we're not sure, you've used various names on here. |
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Post by indyonce93 on Nov 16, 2015 22:55:20 GMT -5
Past contracts were 1993, 1996, 1999, 2003, 2007, 2011. Not sure before Sept.1993, as I hired in Oct.18,1993 They were every 3 years thru 1999 and then 4 years ever since. Just FYI
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Post by raws2ktp on Nov 17, 2015 2:19:56 GMT -5
1. if you think this deal creates more tiers, you are either ignorant or lying. Please read pages 210A-212A and then see who is ignorant. I mean that in the best possible way. Lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified. These people are Ford workers in a Ford plant making less money. Aren't those the characteristics of a second tier? |
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Post by ihatemyjob on Nov 17, 2015 3:59:21 GMT -5
Past contracts were 1993, 1996, 1999, 2003, 2007, 2011. Not sure before Sept.1993, as I hired in Oct.18,1993 They were every 3 years thru 1999 and then 4 years ever since. Just FYI My mistake. I knew they were every 3 years and that they changed to every 4 after I hired in. I was thinking 2003 was when they started every 4. |
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Post by notalifer on Nov 17, 2015 6:47:31 GMT -5
2. if you are upset that you can now only convert two aowls per year that occur on the 1st or last day of the week, then quit reading. this post is for people that show up to work and care about their job. Fuck all that. If I choose to use my personal days to cover AWOLS it really isn't of any concern to you. I can see people frustrated with those that play the FMLA game but to say someone doesn't ever show up to work or care about their job because they use their personal days is fucking horse shit. |
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Post by Ex-metalman on Nov 17, 2015 7:21:37 GMT -5
Here's my thing I don't do the FMLA thing but ANYBODY can instead of griping on here go to Doc and get ya some..Or shut up.Its a LAW can't change that on here or at work..
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Post by machination on Nov 17, 2015 8:45:24 GMT -5
We all hired in and it took 3 yrs to reach top pay?Dont understand the different contact thing?1995,1999 were contract years and it took 3 yrs for top pay during a 4 yr contract? Jesus Christ. 1995 WAS NOT a contract year. They were 3 year contracts back then. 1993, 1996, then with the 1999 one it changed to 4 years, next was 2003, 2007, then 2011, now 2015. I hired in in 1995 at 70% of top pay. Remember how that worked? Of course not people. Too many folks, even back then, never bothered to read their own contract book and just whined about bs that they didn't even make an effort to understand. WE were at 70% pay, which at my hire date was $12.56/hour. Every six months you went up to the next higher 5% slot. The contract expired ONE year after I hired in, and guess what? They continued the same incremental increases for new hires. I got to top pay after 3 years. This is part of the problem, a very big part of the problem. There are some very vocal people on this board who SIMPLY DONT EVEN KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT. Sorry. By all means if they renege on the 8 year deal for newer workers in 2019, I WILL vote no on the 2019 agreement. |
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