lee
New Member
Posts: 11 
|
Post by lee on Feb 1, 2016 16:23:07 GMT -5
Im in the process of being hired by Ford at the KTP. I am currently working a job where I make a decent amount of money with the skill set I have aquired through experience and education...MBA at IU. Could someone share with me their thoughts on how hard it would be to advance to a higher paying job at KTP with my qualifications. As it stands now if I start at $17.00 per hour I would be taking a pay cut but Im trying to look at this from a long term perspective in regards to advancement and pay raises.
I would like to hear some thoughts from you the people on this forum.
Any thoughts would be highly appreciated.
Sincerely
Lee
|
|
|
|
Post by tryingtomakeit on Feb 1, 2016 17:52:12 GMT -5
What's your skill set? Not being a dick, but there are plenty of college grads and MBA's out here shooting screws. So just having your sheepskin doesnt make you special.
If you're looking to get into management my suggestion would be to have someone hit you in the head with a hammer. It seems that lost cognitive capacity is what they're looking for. And buy some good knee pads and a few knives to plant in your cohorts backs.
|
|
|
|
Post by tiger66 on Feb 1, 2016 18:00:32 GMT -5
Hourly you will get to 30$ an hr in time. Management you could make great money with your education but they put up with a lot of bullshit. Plus you would rotate shifts every 3 months as a boss and your at their disposal any time they want you.
|
|
lee
New Member
Posts: 11
|
Post by lee on Feb 1, 2016 18:16:05 GMT -5
I appreciate what you guys have shared. I tend to be the type of person that is more team oriented with an ability to lead by example as well as motivating and teaching others around me. I currently work at a job where the owners rely on me to motivate and teach groups of people. It appears from what I have read on this message board that upper mngmt is out of touch with the people on the floor...that are really the heart of production.
One of my areas of specialty is in the theory of constraints....which could possibly come in very handy at KTP.
BTW...I still question the validity of the voting results and process that resulted in the acceptance of the current national contract that you guys are under.
I was paying close attention on the night of the agreement and still dont trust the process.
Would love to hear more from you guys. Concerning $30 per hour...are we talking 5-10 years or?
Sincerely
Lee
|
|
|
|
Post by oh2ky on Feb 1, 2016 19:26:22 GMT -5
Top pay currently takes 8 years.
|
|
|
|
Post by pmooret on Feb 1, 2016 20:00:41 GMT -5
My thoughts: As far as hiring in on the line the only way you should even consider it is if you do not currently have benefits, especially health. The benefits could offset the cut in pay. A line supervisor job sucks. If you are looking to get into upper management I would submit a resume and not try working on the line unless you need the benefits.
|
|
|
|
Post by ScottR@KTP on Feb 2, 2016 8:58:43 GMT -5
We have hired numerous supervisors off the street in the last 6 months to prepare for adding the 3rd shift in the final areas. I would guess you missed that boat.
I would stay far, far away from here. As pmooret stated above though...if you have good healthcare and benefits now and you're happy, stay there. You can't put a price on having a job that brings you joy. There's no joy to working in a factory.
|
|
lee
New Member
Posts: 11
|
Post by lee on Feb 2, 2016 9:47:39 GMT -5
Thank you Scott for your input...Is it possible to get a contact number where we could talk on the phone for a few minutes....I would highly appreciate your input on a few additional questions.
Sincerely
Lee
|
|
|
|
Post by ScottR@KTP on Feb 2, 2016 12:31:45 GMT -5
PM me here if you need an additional answers...but you can post the questions here and many people will be able to answer them...not just some bitter disgruntled employee like myself.  |
|
|
|
Post by ScottR@KTP on Feb 2, 2016 12:32:46 GMT -5
I can't speak for the working environment and morale of the new hires...it may be much better than us old people envision? I'm sure there are many people that left bad situations and are ecstatic to be here.
|
|
|
|
Post by blackbird66 on Feb 2, 2016 13:20:59 GMT -5
I appreciate what you guys have shared. I tend to be the type of person that is more team oriented with an ability to lead by example as well as motivating and teaching others around me. I currently work at a job where the owners rely on me to motivate and teach groups of people. It appears from what I have read on this message board that upper mngmt is out of touch with the people on the floor...that are really the heart of production. One of my areas of specialty is in the theory of constraints....which could possibly come in very handy at KTP. BTW...I still question the validity of the voting results and process that resulted in the acceptance of the current national contract that you guys are under. I was paying close attention on the night of the agreement and still dont trust the process. Would love to hear more from you guys. Concerning $30 per hour...are we talking 5-10 years or? Sincerely Lee Um, yea, like, I like read about 1/2 that. Um, I don't think this is for you. Supervision does NOT work with the membership. They do NOT lead by example. They people above our floor supervision appear to promote things being the way they are, and unless you are hard, calloused, and un-feeling, they will chew you up and spit you out. I've known a couple of guys unfortunate enough to hire in direct as supervisors who chose a voluntary quit/re-hire into an hourly position after a few years of misery in supervision. The one who was a floor level supervisor just got tired of being forced to screw over his best workers. He once told me that promotion was all about " Who can stand out in the aisle and beat their chest the loudest". All that matters is that the line keeps moving. Your job will be to keep that line moving at any cost, and when you don't, ( they will not give you the resources to do your job) knowing who to blame under you. It's never you fault, and the blame always falls to someone below you. |
|
|
|
Post by machination on Feb 2, 2016 14:39:55 GMT -5
I appreciate what you guys have shared. I tend to be the type of person that is more team oriented with an ability to lead by example as well as motivating and teaching others around me. I currently work at a job where the owners rely on me to motivate and teach groups of people. It appears from what I have read on this message board that upper mngmt is out of touch with the people on the floor...that are really the heart of production. One of my areas of specialty is in the theory of constraints....which could possibly come in very handy at KTP. BTW...I still question the validity of the voting results and process that resulted in the acceptance of the current national contract that you guys are under. I was paying close attention on the night of the agreement and still dont trust the process. Would love to hear more from you guys. Concerning $30 per hour...are we talking 5-10 years or? Sincerely Lee This has to be a joke thread. Good job if it is, because your ruse apparently succeeded. In case you're actually serious though, I'll bite, and offer my "advice".
Firstly, the very idea that a new hire, whether as an hourly or in management, is going to "lead", "motivate", or "teach" people who have worked here for over 20 years is offensive. Who do you think you are anyway (if this is even a serious thread)? You are the one who will be led, motivated, and taught by US, not the other way around...How are you going to "lead by example" when, if you get into management, you won't actually be doing any of the work? If you don't get into management and work on the line, how, and for that matter why, are you going to lead anyone when what you should be doing is minding your own business and doing your own job. Some of you new guys come in and somehow think you know more than people who have worked here 20 years, and you want to change this or that, and only end up succeeding in either alienating the people around you or screwing something up, or both. Some of you guys think you know so much when you actually don't; you just pretend to. We call that, in the vulgar tongue, being "full of shit."
Secondly, of course upper management is out of touch with workforce on the floor, as is mid level mgmt., and even lower level management. That's because when they're not running around clueless, barking into their radios, cussing each other out (or worse), they're giggling at their "desk" with the kiss-ups and other obsequient people, or playing on their phones, or looking up sports stats on the company computer for their fantasy football team, while the hourly workers around them are busy actually working for a living. Sometimes we're so busy that we can't even stop to get a drink of water without getting behind, in which case Mr. Lazyass finally gets up to come find out what the hold up is. They are incapable of understanding how hard it is to work in the plant because they don't work in the plant. They just show up and watch everyone else do the actual working.
Thirdly, you seem very articulate, potentially intelligent (yes, to be articulate doesn't necessarily mean one actually possesses high intelligence, but it could be present), under 30, and ready to tackle an idealized reality. A real carpe diem kind of person. That's great, but once you get steeped in the real world of auto manufacturing for a while, your disillusionment will open your eyes to the truth of my advice, and you wont be so motivated anymore. Especially if you're in management. After about 5-10 years most of them are struggling with obesity and depression. Obesity is easy to achieve when you don't actually work for a living. Depression is easy to develop too when you realize there's no hope and if you go against the grain too much the grain will take you upstairs and cuss you out away from any witnesses.
In a nutshell, in my opinion you sound over-qualified and under-qualified at the same time. Over- because your credentials could probably get you a more fulfilling job somewhere else, instead of at the soul-crushing factory. Under- because you obviously have no idea what real working people go through and think, like some kind of industrial messiah, that you might be able to "motivate" and "lead" us..., which, again, is offensive. Ooooo the guy with the MBA is going to come in and "fix" all the lowly, ignorant grunts.
But if this is in fact a fake thread, good job!
|
|
lee
New Member
Posts: 11
|
Post by lee on Feb 2, 2016 15:21:34 GMT -5
Machination this isn't a joke. The approach that I've learned through my years in the workforce is that group think will pretty much always trump a single person calling the shots. My current job involves me being a leader while also being in the trench as the main trenchmen. As example a Marketing Director that is responsible for physically delivering the services he/she is marketing. You market seamless gutters...now get your team together and go hang them.
I guess my management style would not be the typical type at ford....Ive never been one that could sit around long...I have to be involved in my work...I guess nervous energy one might say.
It blows my mind that a company as huge as Ford is would be this far behind the times when it comes to Organizational Behavior Mngmt.
I tend to be a disciple of Peter Senge and the learning organization. I would encourage anyone to watch some of his videos on youtube concerning the learning organization.
I appreciate all the input you guys have given me....you have almost convinced me to take up the banner for change and try this out. I can clearly see that Ford has a lot of disgruntled employees here....and I will close by saying I don't blame you guys.
|
|
|
|
Post by machination on Feb 2, 2016 15:37:47 GMT -5
Machination this isn't a joke. The approach that I've learned through my years in the workforce is that group think will pretty much always trump a single person calling the shots. My current job involves me being a leader while also being in the trench as the main trenchmen. As example a Marketing Director that is responsible for physically delivering the services he/she is marketing. You market seamless gutters...now get your team together and go hang them. I guess my management style would not be the typical type at ford....Ive never been one that could sit around long...I have to be involved in my work...I guess nervous energy one might say. It blows my mind that a company as huge as Ford is would be this far behind the times when it comes to Organizational Behavior Mngmt. I tend to be a disciple of Peter Senge and the learning organization. I would encourage anyone to watch some of his videos on youtube concerning the learning organization. I appreciate all the input you guys have given me....you have almost convinced me to take up the banner for change and try this out. I can clearly see that Ford has a lot of disgruntled employees here....and I will close by saying I don't blame you guys. The company cares about one thing and one thing only: Making money. That's it. Nothing, and I mean nothing, else matters. Safety? Well, it's important to have a good safety record so insurance rates don't go up and so the public and government think they care about their workers; again, back to money (If we don't look good we might sell less cars. If so and so gets hurt we might have to cover his job with someone not as familiar with it which could cost us some production. etc.) Gloves have a hole in them that you didn't notice which results in you getting cut? Punish the guy with a write up for having on defective equipment. Wages and benefits? They have to be high otherwise there would be high turnover of employees, affecting quality and production; again, back to money. Good pension? Not anymore. Good luck with that 401(k) when the economy crashes right before you retire. How dare a worker expect an actual old-fashioned pension?? Don't they know those are out of style in today's business world? We've got to make more billions, more profits than we've ever made, with fewer workers and fewer retirement obligations than we had in the past when profits were lower. But now we can't afford it!...Nevermind the social catastrophe our country is going to experience in about 30-40 years when millions of people who worked all their lives retire with less than they need to survive. Grandma died and have to take off to go the funeral? Prove it. You're probably just lazy or something... Job so overloaded that you've developed carpal tunnel and need physical therapy? You're just faking it but whatever. The new kid here will do it and more, then when he makes the job absolutely intolerable he'll transfer. Boss doesn't understand what the problem is, but you're probably lying and just want to get out of doing more work. Maybe this worker just needs the proper "leadership", or "motivation", not a more reasonable workload. Sacrilege! Threaten him with a write-up or suspension. That will "motivate" him!
Anyway, I was told 25 years ago that if Ford could make more money selling spoons we'd never make another car again. Nothing. Else. Matters. Think you deserve to be treated professionally and with respect? Hah, only if the line is moving, and even then it's doubtful you'll receive it.
|
|
lee
New Member
Posts: 11
|
Post by lee on Feb 2, 2016 16:05:04 GMT -5
Machination from what you are describing Ford has no clue about building a learning organization. Its the opposite of Google. Google dominates as a company because they understand their greatest assets are their employees. They require all of their employees to spend so many hours per week on new ways to improve processes...pretty much a huge collective think tank that never stops. Basically I can tell you from experience the guys in the trench will always know more about making that trench more efficient than the guy giving orders from the office. This is what is critical...the guys in the trench should collectively work together to improve the process while the company provides them with the necessary resources. I have an MBA...what did it teach me....that I know very litte...graduate school will make a humble person realize how much they will never know versus what they do know. My teachers were all PH.Ds that were some of the best in their respective disciplines...In summary Im not a know it all...Im a guy that is educated but knows very little to be honest as compared to what there is to know and learn.
|
|
|
|
Post by machination on Feb 2, 2016 16:22:09 GMT -5
Years ago we had Employee Involvement (EI) meetings. Once a week, for 30 minutes, each team would get together at their tables and discuss things such as safety concerns, things that need fixing, suggestions to improve a process, etc. Sometimes, a member of mgmt. might actually show up too. We had a team member designated as EI moderator to help go over all our items of concern and relay this info to mgmt with what we called a matrix. Resolved issues would be struck from the matrix. Unresolved issues would be "carried over". We did this for many years.
Then one day the company decided that this 30 minutes, once a week, would be better spent just making trucks. Who gives a shit what the workers on the line think anyway?... The bosses, many of which don't know a henweigh from a muffler bearing, don't need, or want, our input. We're dirty, eww.
|
|
lee
New Member
Posts: 11
|
Post by lee on Feb 2, 2016 16:32:34 GMT -5
That day was the day they started to go backwards not forward. What genious decided to do away with these meetings....im guessing some guy in finance...I bet me and you could get on the same page real fast with a conversation....its hard to believe that Ford didnt change this when they restructured...unbelievable
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2016 16:54:49 GMT -5
That day was the day they started to go backwards not forward. What genious decided to do away with these meetings....im guessing some guy in finance...I bet me and you could get on the same page real fast with a conversation....its hard to believe that Ford didnt change this when they restructured...unbelievable Understand that our friend machination is only engaging you to amuse himself. You've seen enough from this thread to know that ford (management) is a shit storm. Working the line is no picnic either. It's a way for people that can't do something else can make q good living if they can put up with a special brand of bullshit. Every company exists cares about one thing only. Money. That's why oil companies will sell timber from their land holdings when oil prices drop. It's the way of the world . The real difference is that in the auto industry it's a LOT of money, like oil, the market is volatile, like oil, but the auto companies have no timber to sell. Get me? Good luck! |
|
|
|
Post by ScottR@KTP on Feb 2, 2016 17:02:26 GMT -5
This is entertaining, but I too think this has to be a joke. You are Toyota material...head that way.
|
|
|
|
Post by tryingtomakeit on Feb 2, 2016 17:22:51 GMT -5
1
|
|
|
|
Post by machination on Feb 2, 2016 17:27:03 GMT -5
That day was the day they started to go backwards not forward. What genious decided to do away with these meetings....im guessing some guy in finance...I bet me and you could get on the same page real fast with a conversation....its hard to believe that Ford didnt change this when they restructured...unbelievable Understand that our friend machination is only engaging you to amuse himself. I think it's quite obvious that I'm not amused. However, I do occasionally engage some of you people for my own amusement. Like when I mega-LOLed after the contract passed, despite the efforts of so many of you to thwart it's passage by peddling flat out lies. I admit, it does amuse me when liars lose. It's kind of like good defeating evil, and that's important to me. This time however, in regards to "Lee", I'm not just amusing myself. That being said, I am about 50/50 on whether or not it's even a serious thread. So settle down wannabe-M4-with-an-A2-upper-receiver. Shouldn't you be advising this man with analogies of your dog's testicles or something like you did with me during the contract arguments? I'm pretty sure that was you.  |
|
|
|
Post by blackbird66 on Feb 2, 2016 17:28:49 GMT -5
That day was the day they started to go backwards not forward. What genious decided to do away with these meetings....im guessing some guy in finance...I bet me and you could get on the same page real fast with a conversation....its hard to believe that Ford didnt change this when they restructured...unbelievable It's called "The way Fordward". The kind of thinking your preaching is NOT liked here. They WILL grind you up and spit you out. Your not the first. You won't be the last. Not to mention this is a union shop. You try to get down in the trenches with one of us, and you'll get burnt. You can't perform any work contractually guaranteed to a union worker. |
|
lee
New Member
Posts: 11
|
Post by lee on Feb 2, 2016 17:45:15 GMT -5
Look its pretty simple...Toyota is clueless too...I had a friend that worked their until he couldnt stomach temps building camrys for 10$ per hour with no benefits....Ive always felt that Unions were the only way the worker had leverage until the Unions started selling out their workers...much like politicians...I will still hold to the fact that you guys could have and should have gotten a better deal and would have if the contract was voted down....I have doubts about the process that took place on that night...why did it take forever for them to report it had passed?.....
Enough about that...so you guys are saying forget about working for Ford and trying to make a difference....just be a robot and keep the line moving at all costs?
|
|
|
|
Post by fordmakesnosense on Feb 2, 2016 17:58:48 GMT -5
Actually I think EI lasted an hour after shift team meetings were a half hour during shift
|
|
lee
New Member
Posts: 11
|
Post by lee on Feb 2, 2016 18:09:11 GMT -5
Why did Ford abandon these meetings....?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2016 18:31:13 GMT -5
Understand that our friend machination is only engaging you to amuse himself. I think it's quite obvious that I'm not amused. However, I do occasionally engage some of you people for my own amusement. Like when I mega-LOLed after the contract passed, despite the efforts of so many of you to thwart it's passage by peddling flat out lies. I admit, it does amuse me when liars lose. It's kind of like good defeating evil, and that's important to me. This time however, in regards to "Lee", I'm not just amusing myself. That being said, I am about 50/50 on whether or not it's even a serious thread. So settle down wannabe-M4-with-an-A2-upper-receiver. Shouldn't you be advising this man with analogies of your dog's testicles or something like you did with me during the contract arguments? I'm pretty sure that was you. Yeah, the m4 and the a2 differ cuz of the upper. Lol. Ones a rifle, ones a carbine, smart guy. Lee, read his other posts. He speaks for himself. The band "spin doctors" was named after him |
|
|
|
Post by reedycreekbuc on Feb 2, 2016 19:03:21 GMT -5
Why did Ford abandon these meetings....? Because they cost Ford money. |
|
lee
New Member
Posts: 11
|
Post by lee on Feb 2, 2016 19:09:49 GMT -5
If ford had all the money they are throwing away training new hires that wont last...they could probably afford to reinstate the meetings...just saying
|
|
|
|
Post by earlybreak on Feb 2, 2016 19:36:25 GMT -5
Mr Lee... I would love to see you get hired on and tell the team manager, area manager, plant manager they need to watch Peter Senge on youtube during a down time meeting after shift. I cant stop giggling at the thought.
|
|
lee
New Member
Posts: 11
|
Post by lee on Feb 2, 2016 20:05:17 GMT -5
Mr Lee... I would love to see you get hired on and tell the team manager, area manager, plant manager they need to watch Peter Senge on youtube during a down time meeting after shift. I cant stop giggling at the thought. I wouldnt approach it quite like that...I would keep my mouth shut and be patient for an opportunity which would eventually present itself....then I might offer a book as a present and leave it at that....the best approach is to plant a seed and let someone come to their own conclusions...ive done the same thing at the company I currently work for...it works....when its their idea they will often buy in much easier.... |
|
