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Post by justaworker on Nov 25, 2009 9:16:42 GMT -5
It is true every other civilized country has a government run Heath program to protect its citizens that cannot afford it. WHAT...WHAT...who gives a sh!t??? we have a constitution here, we have freedoms here that no other country can provide...we are not "every other civilized country" we are the good ole USA...you want health care, YOU pay for it. not me. i'll pay for my own. make no mistake, this bill is NOT about doctor visits for the very poor. its about making all of us more reliant on the gov't. |
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Post by ktpelec on Nov 25, 2009 9:36:49 GMT -5
It is true every other civilized country has a government run Heath program to protect its citizens that cannot afford it. WHAT...WHAT...who gives a sh!t??? we have a constitution here, we have freedoms here that no other country can provide...we are not "every other civilized country" we are the good ole USA...you want health care, YOU pay for it. not me. i'll pay for my own. make no mistake, this bill is NOT about doctor visits for the very poor. its about making all of us more reliant on the gov't. Says the person who has a high paying job with good benefits, someone that doesn't worry about how to pay for health Insurance.... |
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Post by ktpelec on Nov 25, 2009 9:50:49 GMT -5
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Post by marcus on Nov 25, 2009 18:59:02 GMT -5
Hotcarl you still haven't answered my questions.One more thing Ive been called a racist on here because I have said this country would be better off if HBO was dead or gone.I also felt this way about Ted Kennedy we are better off since he died.I feel this way about all socialist no matter the color.
So give me some facts what lie did Bush tell so we could go to war?
Who is going to pay for this heath care system where is money coming from for it?
IS our heath care going to get better at Ford or worse?
"take back the tax breaks to the wealthy"
OK how much money will this raise and what income level is wealthy?
"Let's pull our troops out of an unjust war in Iraq"
Why has obama not done this?
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Post by marcus on Nov 25, 2009 19:09:24 GMT -5
"Says the person who has a high paying job with good benefits"
This is BS Ive felt this way before my job at Ford and id feel this way after Ford.I don't want the government to take care of me guess its how I was raised to take care of myself and my family.
I give alot of money to my local church to help people in need and its much better spent there than by people like HBO.
How can you people defend this insane spending he has planned for the next 10 years.We cant pay for it, you can take all the profit from all the company's in America and it wont be enough.
Defend this man!Dont tell me well he means well or GWB didn't fight in a war or GWB did drugs at one time.This helps nothing wake up people one more TIME its not a R OR D thing.We cant do this.
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Post by marcus on Nov 25, 2009 19:24:34 GMT -5
World Health organization ranks us as 36 in the world in heathcare.Do you guys really beleave in what the WHO says please people.
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Nov 25, 2009 20:32:21 GMT -5
I still love how the average American wants the rich to pay for everything (which they pretty much do already)...there was a poll on CNN and the people want the rich to pay for the healthcare plan. I get so sick of the people with no ambition or drive attacking the ambitious which provide us poor people jobs...they pay 90% of all taxes.
People want the reward without taking the risk...sad.
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Post by marcus on Nov 25, 2009 21:27:03 GMT -5
Ive never worked for a poor man.
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Post by justaworker on Nov 26, 2009 0:19:58 GMT -5
WHAT...WHAT...who gives a sh!t??? we have a constitution here, we have freedoms here that no other country can provide...we are not "every other civilized country" we are the good ole USA...you want health care, YOU pay for it. not me. i'll pay for my own. make no mistake, this bill is NOT about doctor visits for the very poor. its about making all of us more reliant on the gov't. Says the person who has a high paying job with good benefits, someone that doesn't worry about how to pay for health Insurance.... you are wrong PAL! i am on ILO, insurance runs out in july. i will then be on my own. so i do have to worry about health insurance for me and my family...thats my problem though, not everybody elses. if this fails, would you pay for my insurance? |
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Post by hotcarl on Nov 26, 2009 2:58:58 GMT -5
Hotcarl you still haven't answered my questions.One more thing Ive been called a racist on here because I have said this country would be better off if HBO was dead or gone.I also felt this way about Ted Kennedy we are better off since he died.I feel this way about all socialist no matter the color. So give me some facts what lie did Bush tell so we could go to war? Who is going to pay for this heath care system where is money coming from for it? IS our heath care going to get better at Ford or worse? "take back the tax breaks to the wealthy" OK how much money will this raise and what income level is wealthy? "Let's pull our troops out of an unjust war in Iraq" Why has obama not done this? I never called you a racist and I cannot help if someone else did. Can we please move on from that. What kind of sick person would wish our President or one of the countries most respected leaders, Edward Kennedy,dead? Sen. Kennedy spent most of his life fighting for the little guy, not the rich and privileged. I guess in your twisted mind, equal rights for women and minorities is wrong. Those are the types of things that he fought for. Furthermore, we live in a country mixed with socialism and capitalism and we always will. Ford accepting money from the State of Kentucky to retool KTP and LAP is socialism. Low interest Department of Energy Loans to retool LAP is socialism. Should we do away with those programs and watch Ford move more of our work to third world countries? Most likely, every politician that has ever served this country has in one way or another supported some type of socialism. Would you like to see them all dead? What a psycho! You want some examples of Bush's lies? How about the claim that Iraq was behind 9/11 when in fact everyone else seemed to know that it was solely bin laden's al-qaida based in Afghanistan. Read the 9/11 commission report and you'll see lots of lies and cover-ups. What about his lie that Iraq held weapons of mass destruction? Let us not forget his infamous claim of "mission accomplished"? For a guy who claims not to be a republican, you sure seem to stick up for them a lot. You are obviously not a democrat and you claim not to be a republican, so may I ask what is your political affiliation if any? The Democratic Party is the only major party that is pro-union. Do you guys think the GOP supports unions in any way, shape or fashion? Marcus are you anti-union? If so, then that explains a lot. I am very pro-union and pro- democrat even though I understand that neither is perfect. You must have trouble with reading comprehension because in an earlier post I gave you President Obama's definition of wealthy yet you ask me for it again. I'm not an economist so I don't know how much money stripping Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy will in itself raise toward National Health Care but I'm sure that it will be substantial. However if it will somehow change your mind (which I doubt) I'll be happy to spend a couple of hours doing the research for you. It was estimated that around 47,000 AMERICANS died in 2008 due to the lack of affordable health care. This is not a number that I made up This is real guys. We have been lucky to have had good affordable health care at Ford. However we now have deductibles that we've never had before. Our office visits co-pays and E.R. trip visits are now at record highs and our prescription drugs co-pays go up every time we turn around. I'm actually buying meds without insurance cheaper than the co-pay on many drugs. Do you think that this is going to get better or worse without doing anything about it? Future retiree heath care for current workers probably won't even exist for workers with 20 years or less thanks to the new VEBA and small percentage that Ford had to pay into it. Think about this: Employee hires in at 18, puts his 30 in and retires at 48. What happens if the VEBA goes bust before he retires? He either has to keep working until Medicare(socialized health care) kicks in at 65, or find another job with insurance, or go without insurance or pay for a policy(which I'm sure will be cheap especially if he or spouse has any pre-existing conditions). Without National Heath care or a sponsored retiree heath benefit, if you retire before 65, you are screwed. We are spending 18% of our Gross National Product on health care while other industrialized nations spend 3%-5%. When should we start doing something about it? 30%of GNP?, 50%of GNP, 90%of GNP? Please let me know. A National heath care plan will most benefit the middle class. The rich have cadillac plans provided to them or can afford $20K to purchase a top notch plan. The poor can get indigent care at just about any hospital. That type of care is at the highest rate and it gets passed on to us. You say that you give a lot of money to your church. If you don't mind me asking, do you claim it as a charitable contribution? Do you collect unemployment insurance when you are laid off? Do you plan on drawing social security someday or going on Medicare? If so to any of these, some would consider you a hypocrite for participating in these socialist programs. I'll be waiting for you to answer these questions and the ones that you dodged in my earlier post. |
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Post by hotcarl on Nov 26, 2009 3:19:07 GMT -5
Word around the liberal campfire is our troops will be fighting this war for at least 10 more years if Obama gets his wish. This is the same war he was so against during his campaign. President Obama...YOU LIE! And you speak of the predicted cost of the healthcare proposal...when was the last time something proposed by the gov't met their predicted cost? This will cost us over 2 trillion if it passes...but thankfully I believe it never will. Just a big waste of taxpayer money discussing it. They need to worry about creating jobs first...real jobs...not like the make believe ones they aleady created. Scott, When did you start hanging around the liberal campfire? Sounds like more Limbaugh/Beck/Hannity BS to me. Those guys working along I-65, I-64 and I-264 sure look like real workers to me. I will have to disagree with you on National Health Care Reform legislation. It will get passed to some degree though maybe not to the extent that President Obama and the House and Senate leaders want. Personally I'd love to see the Senate use the nuclear option (which would only take 51 votes) and shove a single-payer-plan down the republican's throat, although I think that is unlikely to happen. |
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Post by justaworker on Nov 26, 2009 9:23:55 GMT -5
Hotcarl you still haven't answered my questions.One more thing Ive been called a racist on here because I have said this country would be better off if HBO was dead or gone.I also felt this way about Ted Kennedy we are better off since he died.I feel this way about all socialist no matter the color. So give me some facts what lie did Bush tell so we could go to war? Who is going to pay for this heath care system where is money coming from for it? IS our heath care going to get better at Ford or worse? "take back the tax breaks to the wealthy" OK how much money will this raise and what income level is wealthy? "Let's pull our troops out of an unjust war in Iraq" Why has obama not done this? I never called you a racist and I cannot help if someone else did. Can we please move on from that. What kind of sick person would wish our President or one of the countries most respected leaders, Edward Kennedy,dead? Sen. Kennedy spent most of his life fighting for the little guy, not the rich and privileged. I guess in your twisted mind, equal rights for women and minorities is wrong. Those are the types of things that he fought for. Furthermore, we live in a country mixed with socialism and capitalism and we always will. Ford accepting money from the State of Kentucky to retool KTP and LAP is socialism. Low interest Department of Energy Loans to retool LAP is socialism. Should we do away with those programs and watch Ford move more of our work to third world countries? Most likely, every politician that has ever served this country has in one way or another supported some type of socialism. Would you like to see them all dead? What a psycho! You want some examples of Bush's lies? How about the claim that Iraq was behind 9/11 when in fact everyone else seemed to know that it was solely bin laden's al-qaida based in Afghanistan. Read the 9/11 commission report and you'll see lots of lies and cover-ups. What about his lie that Iraq held weapons of mass destruction? Let us not forget his infamous claim of "mission accomplished"? For a guy who claims not to be a republican, you sure seem to stick up for them a lot. You are obviously not a democrat and you claim not to be a republican, so may I ask what is your political affiliation if any? The Democratic Party is the only major party that is pro-union. Do you guys think the GOP supports unions in any way, shape or fashion? Marcus are you anti-union? If so, then that explains a lot. I am very pro-union and pro- democrat even though I understand that neither is perfect. You must have trouble with reading comprehension because in an earlier post I gave you President Obama's definition of wealthy yet you ask me for it again. I'm not an economist so I don't know how much money stripping Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy will in itself raise toward National Health Care but I'm sure that it will be substantial. However if it will somehow change your mind (which I doubt) I'll be happy to spend a couple of hours doing the research for you. It was estimated that around 47,000 AMERICANS died in 2008 due to the lack of affordable health care. This is not a number that I made up This is real guys. We have been lucky to have had good affordable health care at Ford. However we now have deductibles that we've never had before. Our office visits co-pays and E.R. trip visits are now at record highs and our prescription drugs co-pays go up every time we turn around. I'm actually buying meds without insurance cheaper than the co-pay on many drugs. Do you think that this is going to get better or worse without doing anything about it? Future retiree heath care for current workers probably won't even exist for workers with 20 years or less thanks to the new VEBA and small percentage that Ford had to pay into it. Think about this: Employee hires in at 18, puts his 30 in and retires at 48. What happens if the VEBA goes bust before he retires? He either has to keep working until Medicare(socialized health care) kicks in at 65, or find another job with insurance, or go without insurance or pay for a policy(which I'm sure will be cheap especially if he or spouse has any pre-existing conditions). Without National Heath care or a sponsored retiree heath benefit, if you retire before 65, you are screwed. We are spending 18% of our Gross National Product on health care while other industrialized nations spend 3%-5%. When should we start doing something about it? 30%of GNP?, 50%of GNP, 90%of GNP? Please let me know. A National heath care plan will most benefit the middle class. The rich have cadillac plans provided to them or can afford $20K to purchase a top notch plan. The poor can get indigent care at just about any hospital. That type of care is at the highest rate and it gets passed on to us. You say that you give a lot of money to your church. If you don't mind me asking, do you claim it as a charitable contribution? Do you collect unemployment insurance when you are laid off? Do you plan on drawing social security someday or going on Medicare? If so to any of these, some would consider you a hypocrite for participating in these socialist programs. I'll be waiting for you to answer these questions and the ones that you dodged in my earlier post. way too much there to address, but i will take a few things from the top. there is no little guy, or rich and privileged. WE ARE ALL FREE AMERICANS. the class warfare card is so tiresome. if you want to be rich and privileged, you can be. and i don't look at affirmitive as equal rights, its actually quite the opposite. |
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Post by marcus on Nov 26, 2009 9:42:27 GMT -5
I didn't say YOU called me a racist I said I have been called that on here before.
When we went into Iraq we went because all our reports from other country's and ours said he had WMD.It wasn't bush saying hey lets attack Iraq for fun.
I am a libertarian.The two main party's have been going away from our founding fathers for decades.These two party's have made all the crap we are in.
"do you claim it as a charitable contribution"
Yes I claim it, as it is a large sum.Id give more if gov would take less from me.
"Do you collect unemployment insurance when you are laid off?"
Yes I do I have paid into that for 25 years and still haven't got back what I put in.If they would have let me keep the money being put into it for me I would have had much more.
IF I could keep the money they take from me each week for SS I would have much much more than what the GOV allows me to have.
"guess in your twisted mind, equal rights for women and minorities is wrong"
What party passed equal rights in this country for women and minorities.What President let the slaves go?
Ted Kennedy admitted he was a socialist and also he got away with murder years ago when he killed that woman and her unborn child.To bad they didn't have DNA testing back then wonder who's child it was?
He also spent millions of dollars to keep women quiet over the years when he had sex with them.I guess thats equal rights though getting paid for sex.
When the state of KY gives Ford or Toyota or whoever a tax break that means they take less money from them thats not socialism.
What is socialism is HBO giving GM 100 billion dollars to they wouldn't go bankrupt(whoops they still did)and telling bond holders to go to hell and they give unions 50 percent of GM.
I don't know about the 47000 that die in America because they don't have heath care but even if thats a real number its very very low to spend billions to change everything for 300 million of us.
I agree we need to do something about heath care but again it should not be up to the US gov!!
I know I might have missed some questions so ask me again latter.
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Post by hotcarl on Nov 26, 2009 12:42:09 GMT -5
Being Thanksgiving and all I don't have much time to respond. I will say this however; unless you are a business owner you have never paid one penny into unemployment insurance. Unemployment is paid in by your employer, not you. I don't know how old you are but if social security is still around when I retire and I live to an average age, I will draw more than I ever paid in. I started putting in to at age 16. That is part of the reason why it is going broke, people are drawing out more than they paid in. Current workers are even putting in less due to drops in wages, unemployment and underemployment. Again I'll ask this; Why to you find it funny to call OUR President HBO and do you want every politician dead who supported a social issue at one time or another? Is it correct to say that you do participate in socialism even though you are totally against it? Did you or your kids attend public schools? Socialism once again. Gotta go. Happy Thanksgiving.
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Post by hotcarl on Nov 26, 2009 12:44:36 GMT -5
Kennedy was involved in an accident where a woman died. To call him a murderer is a real stretch. Revisionist history and conspiracy theory at it's best.
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Post by hotcarl on Nov 26, 2009 12:59:38 GMT -5
If you give money to a corporation either as a tax credit or just hand them cash, it is the same thing at the end of the day. That is and will always be corporate socialism. I don't know where you get your numbers but the U.S. did not give GM $100 million. Much of what was loaned to them will be paid back and you seemed to have forgotten that our government now holds a sizable chunk of GM stock in exchange for funding the bankruptcy. I hope that if we at Ford are ever in the same boat, our government will help us out. Had the government not bailed GM out and they were forced into liquidation the cost would have been bigger according to many leading economists. Don't forget, your hero George Bush was pushing for a rescue of the automakers before he left office.
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Post by dowhat on Nov 26, 2009 13:00:10 GMT -5
Hotcarl good to see someone on here actually paying attention to what is Really going on! If you are really waiting for answers to you questions you will NEVER get it on here ! because what you are speaking about is the truth and many on here CAN NOT AND WILL NOT EXCEPT THE TRUTH!
health care cost rise 130% and most on here will defend that this system is great and nothing is wrong with it! (UNWILLING to connect the dots,our healthcare is rising and is slowly being stripped away.) Did you get your letter from your insurance company last week about generic drug prices vs top brand prices? did you see what is not going to be covered going forward? (just a real life example strip, strip, strip)
47000 people die and you will see comments like WHO GIVES A SH*#! WE HAVE A CONSTITUTION I"ll pay for mine **!!??!! a total disconnect!
Obama is this BAD Boogie Man (Socialism! Socialism! Socialism!)
Marcus and I quote: What is socialism is HBO giving GM 100 billion dollars so they wouldn't go bankrupt (whoops and they did) and telling bond holders to go to hell and they give unions 50 percent of GM. END of Quote!
So what did Bush do when he gave all that money to Banks and investment firms WITH NO STRINGS ATTACHED! SOCIALISM! SOCIALISM! SOCIALISM! I'm sorry some how it is not the same when Obama does the same thing!
This is a good one! something should be done about healthcare but it should not be up to the US government?? Really! Who should do it then? Maybe we should let free market principles take care of it!? No that would only make prices go up! (gotta take care of the stock and bond holders) lets see your health or Profit? easy answer profit is winning now so why would it change? I'm sure the insurance and drug companies are fine where they are! Bush and the war thing, All lies period and we ALL know it.
There is no rich and priviledged guy and no little guy? REALLY! WOW! this is planet earth and we are talking about humans right!! yet another total disconnect.
Hotcarl this is Kentucky and many on here reflect it! but it is really good to see someone else speak up about the lack of information, ignorance, and extreme prejudice on this fourm! keep it up!
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Post by marcus on Nov 27, 2009 0:47:21 GMT -5
"Unemployment is paid in by your employer"
You are correct and where does this money come from ,out of mine and your pocket.It gets passed on the consumer.Like I said give me the money back and Id have more.
I have no kids and I didn't go to public school and that my friend is another thing I'm against I should not be paying for somebody Else's kid to go to school.
I already told you why I think saying HBO is funny.
"If you give money to a corporation either as a tax credit or just hand them cash, it is the same thing at the end of the day"
Not taking as much tax from a company is not the same as handing them cash thats insane.Its allowing a corporation to keep more of what they earn.
I dont want every politician dead that supported a social program but people like HBO and Ted are off the charts.
Bush was no hero he was a loser for things he did at the end of his term.
There is noway GM will be able to pay back the billions they where given they even took some of that money and bought part suppliers with it.
You failed to read my comments above on GM and what happened to the bond holders and now the UAW owning part of autocompanys.
DOWHAT
We are not saying nothing is wrong with our heath care system we are saying the Government should not run it what the hell is so hard to understand about that?
DOWHAT you are correct about what bush did for the banks I agree it was wrong and socialist I do not like BUSH.Just because one guy did something it doesn't make it OK for the next one to do it.
If Government would get the hell out of our pockets we could have much more than we do.
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Post by marcus on Nov 27, 2009 0:48:53 GMT -5
"47000 people die and you will see comments like WHO GIVES A SH*#!"
Who said this?
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Post by justaworker on Nov 27, 2009 9:42:05 GMT -5
Being Thanksgiving and all I don't have much time to respond. I will say this however; unless you are a business owner you have never paid one penny into unemployment insurance. Unemployment is paid in by your employer, not you. I don't know how old you are but if social security is still around when I retire and I live to an average age, I will draw more than I ever paid in. I started putting in to at age 16. That is part of the reason why it is going broke, people are drawing out more than they paid in. Current workers are even putting in less due to drops in wages, unemployment and underemployment. Again I'll ask this; Why to you find it funny to call OUR President HBO and do you want every politician dead who supported a social issue at one time or another? Is it correct to say that you do participate in socialism even though you are totally against it? Did you or your kids attend public schools? Socialism once again. Gotta go. Happy Thanksgiving. wow, you are wrong on so much here. your unemployment is put in by your employer, it is a LABOR COST to them. simply, its money they spend on you (labor) that you never get. its your money from the start. and about social security...you will never get back anywhere near what you pay in. look at your check, see how much you pay in. then double it. for me thats $140 a week, or $7,300 a year. you take social security, i will take $7,300 a year to invest on my own. lets see who comes out on top. schools..... private schools are better than public schools, and operate more cheaply..how do they do that??? less gov't involvement. |
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Post by dowhat on Nov 27, 2009 9:43:51 GMT -5
Marcus: if government is not the one to fix this Health care mess then who?
you say you do not like Bush but at the time Bush was grinding this country into the ground you and others on this board defended Bush to no end!
Lets take the iraq war you clearly to this day still defend Bush! WHY? It is common knowledge that IRAQ had nothing to do with 9/11. Osama Bin Laden was and still is our man! and we invade IRAQ??? REALLY OOHH they had WMDs! REALLY! we still haven't found them! and Dick Chenney still thinks they are there. #^*8???
Republicans cry about the cost of Health care for OUR OWN American people (our country!) but are so willing to spend 50 times the cost of health care on a war that the American people dont want and dont know nothing about! anybody care to explain?
Re: Can anybody defend HBO?
« Reply #30 on Nov 25, 2009, 9:16am »
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Nov 25, 2009, 9:06am, ktpelec wrote:It is true every other civilized country has a government run Heath program to protect its citizens that cannot afford it.
WHAT...WHAT...who gives a sh!t??? we have a constitution here, we have freedoms here that no other country can provide...we are not "every other civilized country" we are the good ole USA...you want health care, YOU pay for it. not me. i'll pay for my own.
make no mista
That post was copied from justaworker at the top of this page! relative debate over healthcare and its cost and effects!
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Post by justaworker on Nov 27, 2009 12:37:24 GMT -5
Marcus: if government is not the one to fix this Health care mess then who? you say you do not like Bush but at the time Bush was grinding this country into the ground you and others on this board defended Bush to no end! Lets take the iraq war you clearly to this day still defend Bush! WHY? It is common knowledge that IRAQ had nothing to do with 9/11. Osama Bin Laden was and still is our man! and we invade IRAQ??? REALLY OOHH they had WMDs! REALLY! we still haven't found them! and Dick Chenney still thinks they are there. #^*8??? Republicans cry about the cost of Health care for OUR OWN American people (our country!) but are so willing to spend 50 times the cost of health care on a war that the American people dont want and dont know nothing about! anybody care to explain? Re: Can anybody defend HBO? « Reply #30 on Nov 25, 2009, 9:16am » -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nov 25, 2009, 9:06am, ktpelec wrote:It is true every other civilized country has a government run Heath program to protect its citizens that cannot afford it. WHAT...WHAT...who gives a sh!t??? we have a constitution here, we have freedoms here that no other country can provide...we are not "every other civilized country" we are the good ole USA...you want health care, YOU pay for it. not me. i'll pay for my own. make no mista That post was copied from justaworker at the top of this page! relative debate over healthcare and its cost and effects! bush, bush, bush...blah, blah, blah. he's not president now, and he's not running again. |
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Post by dowhat on Nov 27, 2009 13:11:45 GMT -5
Marcus: if government is not the one to fix this Health care mess then who? you say you do not like Bush but at the time Bush was grinding this country into the ground you and others on this board defended Bush to no end! Lets take the iraq war you clearly to this day still defend Bush! WHY? It is common knowledge that IRAQ had nothing to do with 9/11. Osama Bin Laden was and still is our man! and we invade IRAQ??? REALLY OOHH they had WMDs! REALLY! we still haven't found them! and Dick Chenney still thinks they are there. #^*8??? Republicans cry about the cost of Health care for OUR OWN American people (our country!) but are so willing to spend 50 times the cost of health care on a war that the American people dont want and dont know nothing about! anybody care to explain? Re: Can anybody defend HBO? « Reply #30 on Nov 25, 2009, 9:16am » -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nov 25, 2009, 9:06am, ktpelec wrote:It is true every other civilized country has a government run Heath program to protect its citizens that cannot afford it. WHAT...WHAT...who gives a sh!t??? we have a constitution here, we have freedoms here that no other country can provide...we are not "every other civilized country" we are the good ole USA...you want health care, YOU pay for it. not me. i'll pay for my own. make no mista That post was copied from justaworker at the top of this page! relative debate over healthcare and its cost and effects! bush, bush, bush...blah, blah, blah. he's not president now, and he's not running again. Thank God he is not! I see you really dont have anything to add to this conversation! |
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Post by justaworker on Nov 27, 2009 16:46:58 GMT -5
the conversation ended when you chose to focus on presidents of the past...rather than the topic which was the president "i say loosely" that we have now.
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Post by marcus on Nov 27, 2009 17:23:50 GMT -5
I only defended Bush on the war.One more time is was not JUST bush that said Iraq had WMD it was most of the world not just our guys.
I don't know what laws Bush past to grind this country into the ground do you care to let us know?
On heath care I think we should go slow and not change the whole system,we don't need to change the whole dang thing.
I have many family members in Iraq right now and they believe 100percent in what we did and are doing there.He tells me about the good they are doing and the people who thank them everyday.
Take a poll of the men and woman over there is see if they think what they did and are doing is the right thing to do.
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Post by jobs1stb4polarbear on Nov 27, 2009 19:54:24 GMT -5
I took a poll and found out that swine flu is starting to be more popular than Obama.....lol
As for Bush.....He was a leader..not like what we have now. He stuck by his decisions. Even when i disagreed with them...
He did become a spender, and could have had a free pass to seal the border's with Canada and Mexico after 911 and failed to do so.
He also had an ONSLAUGHT of media hatred thrust on him compared to the abject LUST FEST the media has on the current president. He was labled as the "stupidest person alive" as was Reagan, Bush 1, McCain, Bob Dole and Palin. Even retarded trailer trash voters just KNEW all these republicans were "STUPID" because they saw it in MTV, VH1 and the nightly news. Doesn't matter if it's true, or if it was Dan Rathered (liberals might want to learn that term, it's the new paradigm for the big media lie) they repeated the lie over and over..soon you have to respond to it. Makes you wonder if Bush was so stupid why did they have to make up a story about him? He didn't lose his job Dan Rather did..so who's stupid?
Look at Olbermann and Maddow on PMSNBC for example..they are still stuck on bashing Bush and Cheney and they aren't in office, but that doesn't stop them from misdirecting their audience from the current president, who campaigned in 57 states..no wonder he won, the got votes from seven extra states..and all the dead people in Chicago cemetaries.
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Post by dowhat on Nov 29, 2009 18:08:08 GMT -5
I'm sorry you didn't take the time to read this thread, because if you did you would have known that I was not the first to bring Bush into this conversation. But saying that is talking about Bush really off limits here? I really don't think so, because the effects of his 8 years in office will effect this country for years and years to come.(sad)
Marcus: you said you only defended Bush one more time?? That is my point you continue to support his failures over and over again. (to the tune of just one more time)
I did not say he created laws that grinded this country into the ground! I said you supported and defended Bush while he was grinding this country into the ground!
Do you disagree that Bush was in office when this country faced the worst economic down turn since the great depression?? What if anything did he do?
Yes I'm sure we are doing good things in Iraq now, but what should not be forgotten is all the life that was lost American soilders, Iraqi soilders and the countless other soilders from other countries, and the war was started because of 9/11??? No Connection at all??? ohhh maybe the wmds??? OHHH the terrorist thing??? Bush used all of those for his reason as to why we went to war?? If one would just sit back think for a minute you would see that all of was and still is just BS.
Yes he did become a big spender, the problem with Bushes spending is it produced nothing, repeat NOTHING!! We all know where we are at now in reguards to the condition of this country!!
you say we dont need to change the whole dang thing?? we should go slow?? But you still did not address who should be incharge of changing it? back to Iraq:
Take a poll Really!!! if one takes a poll they should do a poll on the whole country and see what type of responce is giving! not just the ones doing great and grand but also the ones whos family members are injured or killed! It shouldn't be one sided. and lets see waht type of picture is painted (good or bad) who knows
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Nov 29, 2009 20:32:09 GMT -5
I know you truly want to believe George W. Bush accomplished nothing positive, but you really need to do your own research. You are only ignorant to believe he did nothing but crush America...you need to get over it and move on already. search.yahoo.com/search?p=good+things+george+w+bush+did |
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Post by ScottR@KTP on Nov 29, 2009 20:37:31 GMT -5
PRESIDENT BUSH'S AMAZING ACCOMPLISHMENTS
Unknown | June 30, 2004 | Unknown
Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 6:33:59 PM by soozla
Abortion & Traditional Values
1. Banned Partial Birth Abortion — by far the most significant roll-back of abortion on demand since Roe v. Wade.
2. Reversed Clinton's move to strike Reagan's anti-abortion Mexico Policy.
3. By Executive Order (EO), reversed Clinton's policy of not requiring parental consent for abortions under the Medical Privacy Act.
4. By EO, prohibited federal funds for international family planning groups that provide abortions and related services.
5. Upheld the ban on abortions at military hospitals.
6. Made $33 million available for abstinence education programs in 2004.
7. Supports the Defense of Marriage Act — and a Constitutional amendment saying marriage is between one man and one woman.
8. Requires states to conduct criminal background checks on prospective foster and adoptive parents.
9. Requires districts to let students transfer out of dangerous schools.
10. Requires schools to have a zero-tolerance policy for classroom disruption (reintroducing discipline into classrooms).
11. Signed the Teacher Protection Act, which protects teachers from lawsuits related to student discipline.
12. Expanded the role of faith-based and community organizations in after-school programs.
Budget, Taxes & Economy
1. Signed two income tax cuts, one of which was the largest dollar-value tax cut in world history.
2. Supports permanent elimination of the death tax.
3. Turned around an inherited economy that was in recession, and deeply shocked as a result of the 9/11 attacks.
4. Is seeking legislation to amend the Constitution to give the president line-item veto authority.
5. In process of permanently eliminating IRS marriage penalty.
6. Increased small business incentives to expand and to hire new people.
7. Initiated discussion on privatizing Social Security and individual investment accounts.
8. Killed Clinton's "ergonomic" rules that OSHA was about to implement; rules would have shut down every home business in America.
9. Passed tough new laws to hold corporate criminals to account as a result of corporate scandals.
10. Reduced taxes on dividends and capital gains.
11. Signed trade promotion authority.
12. Reduced and is working to ultimately eliminate the estate tax for family farms and ranches.
13. Fight Europe's ban on importing biotech crops from the United States.
14. Exempt food from unilateral trade sanctions and embargoes.
15. Provided $20 million to states to help people with disabilities work from home.
16. Created a fund to encourage technologies that help the disabled.
17. Increased the annual contribution limit on Education IRA's from $500 to $2,000 per child.
18. Make permanent the $5,000 adoption tax credit and provide $1 billion over five years to increase the credit to $10,000.
19. Grant a complete tax exemption for prepaid or college tuition savings plans.
20. Reduced H1B visas from a high of 195,000 per year to 66,000 per year.
Character & Conduct as President
1. Changed the tone in the White House, restoring HONOR and DIGNITY to the presidency.
2. Has reintroduced the mention of God and faith into public discourse.
3. Handled himself with enormous courage, dignity, grace, determination, and leadership in the aftermath of the September 11, 2001 hijackings and anthrax attacks. He almost single-handedly held this country together during those searing days:
Just three days after the attacks, in his address at the National Cathedral, the President reassured the nation when he said: "War has been waged against us by stealth and deceit and murder. This nation is peaceful, but fierce when stirred to anger. This conflict was begun on the timing and terms of others. It will end in a way, and at an hour, of our choosing."
On Friday, September 14, 2001, President Bush visited Ground Zero. Standing on a crushed and burned fire engine atop the smoldering pile at Ground Zero, he put his arm around a retired firefighter who had volunteered to help, and began speaking to the crowd. Rescue workers shouted that they could not hear him. Someone handed him a small American flag and bullhorn. The President spontaneously shouted: "I can hear you. The rest of the world hears you. And the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon." The crowd roared with cheers and chants of "USA! USA! USA!" Then he raised that American flag and rallied a nation.
Education & Employment Training
1. Signed the No Child Left Behind Act, delivering the most dramatic education reforms in a generation (challenging the soft bigotry of low expectations). The very liberal California Teachers union is currently running radio ads against the accountability provisions of this Act.
2. Announced "Jobs for the 21st Century," a comprehensive plan to better prepare workers for jobs in the new millennium by strengthening post-secondary education and job training, and by improving high school education.
3. Is working to provide vouchers to low-income students in persistently failing schools to help with costs of attending private schools. (Blocked in the Senate.)
4. Requires annual reading and math tests in grades three through eight.
5. Requires states to participate in the National Assessment of Education Progress, or an equivalent program, to establish a national benchmark for academic performance.
6. Requires school-by-school accountability report cards.
7. Established a $2.4 billion fund to help states implement teacher accountability systems.
8. Increased funding for the Troops-to-Teachers program, which recruits former military personnel to become teachers.
Environment & Energy
1. Killed the Kyoto Global Warming Treaty.
2. Submitted a comprehensive Energy Plan (awaits Congressional action). The plan works to develop cleaner technology, produce more natural gas here at home, make America less dependent on foreign sources of energy, improve national grid, etc.
3. Established a $10 million grant program to promote private conservation initiatives.
4. Significantly eased field-testing controls of genetically engineered crops.
5. Changed parts of the Forestry Management Act to allow necessary cleanup of the national forests in order to reduce fire danger.
6. Part of national forests cleanup: Restricted judicial challenges (based on the Endangered Species Act and other challenges), and removed the need for an Environmental Impact Statement before removing fuels/logging to reduce fire danger.
7. Killed Clinton's CO2 rules that were choking off all of the electricity surplus to California.
8. Provided matching grants for state programs that help private landowners protect rare species.
Defense & Foreign Policy
1. Successfully executed two wars in the aftermath of 9/11/01: Afghanistan and Iraq. 50 million people who had lived under tyrannical regimes now live in freedom.
2. Saddam Hussein is now in prison. His two murderous sons are dead. All but a handful of the regime's senior members were killed or captured.
3. Leader by leader and member by member, al Maida is being hunted down in dozens of countries around the world. Of the senior al Qaeda leaders, operational managers, and key facilitators the U.S. Government has been tracking, nearly two-thirds have been taken into custody or killed. The detentions or deaths of senior al Qaeda leaders, including Khalid Shaykh Muhammad, the mastermind of 9/11, and Muhammad Atef, Osama bin Laden's second-in-command until his death in late 2001, have been important in the War on Terror.
4. Disarmed Libya of its chemical, nuclear and biological WMD's without bribes or bloodshed.
5. Continues to execute the War On Terror, getting worldwide cooperation to track funds/terrorists. Has cut off much of the terrorists' funding, and captured or killed many key leaders of the al Qaeda network.
6. Initiated a comprehensive review of our military, which was completed just prior to 9/11/01, and which accurately reported that ASYMMETRICAL WARFARE capabilities were critical in the 21st Century.
7. Killed the old US/Soviet Union ABM Treaty that was preventing the U.S. from deploying our ABM defenses.
8. Has been one of the strongest, if not THE strongest friend Israel has ever hand in the U.S. presidency.
9. Part of the coalition for an Israeli/Palestinian "Roadmap to Peace," along with Great Britain, Russia and the EU.
10. Pushed through THREE raises for our military. Increased military pay by more than $1 billion a year.
11. Signed the LARGEST nuclear arms reduction in world history with Russia.
12. Started withdrawing our troops from Bosnia, and has announced withdrawal of our troops from Germany and the Korean DMZ.
13. Prohibited putting U.S. troops under U.N. command.
14. Paid back UN dues only in return for reforms and reduction of U.S. share of the costs.
15. Earmarked at least 20 percent of the Defense procurement budget for next-generation weaponry.
16. Increased defense research and development spending by at least $20 billion from fiscal 2002 to 2006.
17. Ordered a comprehensive review of military weapons and strategy.
18. Ordered a review of overseas deployments.
19. Ordered renovation of military housing. The military has already upgraded about 10 percent of its inventory and expects to modernize 76,000 additional homes this year.
20. Is working to tighten restrictions on military-technology exports.
21. Brought back our EP-3 intel plane and crew from China without any bribes or bloodshed.
Globalization & Internationalism
1. Challenged the United Nations to live up to their responsibilities and not become another League of Nations (in other words, showed the UN to be completely irrelevant).
2. Killed U.S. involvement in the International Criminal Court.
3. Told the United Nations we weren't interested in their plans for gun control (i.e., the International Ban on Small Arms Trafficking Treaty).
4. The only President since the founding of the UN to essentially tell that organization it is irrelevant. He said: "The conduct of the Iraqi regime is a threat to the authority of the United Nations, and a threat to peace. Iraq has answered a decade of UN demands with a decade of defiance. All the world now faces a test, and the United Nations a difficult and defining moment. Are Security Council resolutions to be honored and enforced, or cast aside without consequence? Will the United Nations serve the purpose of its founding, or will it be irrelevant?" We all know the outcome and the answer.
5. Told the Congress and the world, "America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our country."
Government Reform
1. Improved government efficiency by putting hundreds of thousands of jobs put up for bid. This weakens public-sector unions and cuts undeserved pay raises.
2. Initiated review of all federal agencies with the goal of eliminating federal jobs (completed September 2003) in an effort to reduce the size of the federal government while increasing private sector jobs.
3. Led the most extensive reorganization the Federal bureaucracy in over 50 years: After 9/11, condensed 20+ overlapping agencies and their intelligence sectors into one agency, the Department of Homeland Security.
4. Ordered each agency to draft a five-year plan to restructure itself, with fewer managers.
5. Converted federal service contracts to performance-based contracts wherever possible so that the contractor has measurable performance goals.
Health
1. Strengthen the National Health Service Corps to put more physicians in the neediest areas, and make its scholarship funds tax-free.
2. Double the research budget of the National Institutes of Health.
3. Signed Medicare Reform, which includes:
A 10-year privatization option.
Prescription drug benefits: Prior to this reform, Medicare paid for extended hospital stays for ulcer surgery, for example, at a cost of about $28,000 per patient. Yet Medicare would not pay for the drugs that eliminate the cause of most ulcers, drugs that cost about $500 a year. Now, drug coverage under Medicare will allow seniors to replace more expensive surgeries and hospitalizations with less expensive prescription medicine.
More health care choices: As President Bush stated, "…when seniors have the ability to make choices, health care plans within Medicare will have to compete for their business by offering higher quality service [at lower cost]. For the seniors of America, more choices and more control will mean better health care. These are the kinds of health care options we give to the members of Congress and federal employees. What's good for members of Congress is also good for seniors.
New Health Savings Accounts: Effective January 1, 2004, Americans can set aside up to $4,500 every year, tax free, to save for medical expenses. Depending on your tax bracket, that means you'll save between 10 to 35 percent on any costs covered by money in your account. Every year, the money not spent would stay in the account and gain interest tax-free, just like an IRA. These accounts will be good for small business owners, and employees. More businesses can focus on covering workers for major medical problems, such as hospitalization for an injury or illness. At the same time, employees and their families will use these accounts to cover doctors visits, or lab tests, or other smaller costs. Some employers will contribute to employee health accounts. This will help more American families get the health care they need at the price they can afford.
Homeland Security, Border Enforcement & Immigration
1. *See Government Reform above. Under President Bush's leadership, America has made an unprecedented commitment to homeland security.
2. Has CONSTRUCTION in process on the first 10 ABM silos in Alaska so that America will have a defense against North Korean nukes. Has ordered national and theater ballistic missile defenses to be deployed by 2004.
3. Announced a 9.7% increase in government-wide homeland security funding in his FY 2005 budget, nearly tripling the FY 2001 levels (excluding the Department of Defense and Project BioShield).
4. Before DHS was created, there were inspectors from three different agencies of the Federal Government and Border Patrol officers protecting our borders. Through DHS, U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) now consolidates all border activities into a single agency to create "one face at the border." This not only better secures the borders of the United States, but it also eliminates many of the inefficiencies that occurred under the old system. With over 18,000 CBP inspectors and 11,000 Border Patrol agents, CBP has 29,000 uniformed officers on our borders.
5. The Border Patrol is continuing installation of monitoring devices along the borders to detect illegal activity.
6. Launched Operation Tarmac to investigate businesses and workers in the secure areas of domestic airports and ensure immigration law compliance. Since 9/11, DHS has audited 3,640 businesses, examined 259,037 employee records, arrested 1,030 unauthorized workers, and participated in the criminal indictment of 774 individuals.
7. Since September 11, 2001, the Coast Guard has conducted more than 124,000 port security patrols, 13,000 air patrols, boarded more than 92,000 vessels, interdicted over 14,000 individuals attempting to enter the United States illegally, and created and maintained more than 90 Maritime Security Zones.
8. Announced the Student and Exchange Visitor Information System (SEVIS), an internet-based system that is improving America's ability to track and monitor foreign students and exchange visitors. Over 870,000 students are registered in SEVIS. Of 285 completed field investigations, 71 aliens were arrested.
9. This week, the US-VISIT program began to digitally collect biometric identifiers to record the entry and exit of aliens who travel into the U.S on a visa. Together with the standard information, this new program will confirm compliance with visa and immigration policies.
10. Eliminated INS bureaucratic redundancies and lack of accountability.
11. Split the Immigration and Naturalization Service into two agencies: one to protect the border and interior, the other to deal with naturalization.
12. Signed the workplace verification bill to prevent hiring of illegal aliens.
13. Established a six-month deadline for processing immigration applications.
14. Information regarding nearly 100% of all containerized cargo is carefully screened by DHS before it arrives in the United States. Higher risk shipments are physically inspected for terrorist weapons and contraband prior to being released from the port of entry. Advanced technologies are being deployed to identify warning signs of chemical, biological, or radiological attacks. Since September 11, 2001, hundreds of thousands of first responders across America have been trained to recognize and respond to the effects of a WMD attack.
Judiciary & Tort Reform
1. Is urging federal liability reform to eliminate frivolous lawsuits.
2. Killed the liberal ABA's unconstitutional role in vetting federal judges. The Senate is supposed to advise and consent, not the ABA.
3. Is nominating strong, conservative judges to the judiciary.
4. Supports class action reform bill which limits lawyer fees so that more settlement money goes to victims.
Politics
1. His leadership resulted in Republican gains in the House and Senate, solidifying Republican control of both houses of Congress and the presidency.
2. Signed an EO enforcing the Supreme Court's Beck decision regarding union dues being used for political campaigns against individual's wishes.
Second Amendment
1. Ordered Attorney General Ashcroft to formally notify the Supreme Court that the OFFICIAL U.S. government position on the 2nd Amendment is that it supports INDIVIDUAL rights to own firearms, and is NOT a Leftist-imagined "collective" right.
2. Signed TWO bills into law that arm our pilots with handguns in the cockpit.
3. Currently pushing for full immunity from lawsuits for our national gun manufacturers.
4. *See Globalization & Internationalism.
Traditional Values, Compassion & Volunteerism
1. Endorses and promotes "The Responsibility Era." President Bush often speaks of the necessity of personal responsibility and civic volunteerism. He said, "In a compassionate society, people respect one another and take responsibility for the decisions they make in life. My hope is to change the culture from one that has said, if it feels good, do it; if you've got a problem, blame somebody else — to one in which every single American understands that he or she is responsible for the decisions that you make; you're responsible for loving your children with all your heart and all your soul; you're responsible for being involved with the quality of the education of your children; you're responsible for making sure the community in which you live is safe; you're responsible for loving your neighbor, just like you would like to be loved yourself."
2. Started the USA Freedom Corps, the most comprehensive clearinghouse of volunteer opportunities ever offered. For the first time in history, Americans can enter geographic information about where they want to get involved, such as state or zip code, as well as areas of interest ranging from education to the environment, and they can access volunteer opportunities offered by more than 50,000 organizations across the country and around the world.
3. Established the The White House Office and the Centers for the Faith-Based and Community Initiative — located in seven Federal agencies. The faith-based initiative supports the essential work of these important organizations. The goal is to make sure that grassroots leaders can compete on an equal footing for federal dollars, receive greater private support, and face fewer bureaucratic barriers. Work focuses on at-risk youth, ex-offenders, the homeless and hungry, substance abusers, those with HIV/AIDS, and welfare-to-work families.
4. The White House released a guidebook fully describing the Administration's belief that faith-based groups have a Constitutionally-protected right to maintain their religious identity through hiring — even when Federal funds are involved.
5. Issued an EO implementing the Supreme Court's Olmstead ruling, which requires moving disabled people from institutions to community-based facilities when possible.
6.Increased funding for low-interest loan programs to help people with disabilities purchase devices to assist them.
7. Revised the Department of Housing and Urban Development's Section 8 rent subsidies to disabled people, permitting them to use up to a year's worth of vouchers to finance down payments on homes. HUD has started pilot programs in 11 states.
8. Committed US funds to purchase medicine for millions of men, women and children now suffering with AIDS in Africa.
9. Heeding the words of our own Declaration of Independence, the president laid out the non-negotiable demands of human dignity for all people everywhere. On January 29, 2002, he said, "No nation owns these aspirations, and no nation is exempt from them. We have no intention of imposing our culture. But America will always stand firm for the non-negotiable demands of human dignity." As stated by the President, they are a virtual manifesto of conservative principles:
Equal Justice Freedom of Speech Limited Government Power Private Property Rights Religious Tolerance Respect for Women Rule of Law
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Post by wplap on Nov 30, 2009 13:51:48 GMT -5
Since you retards are too busy slinging mud at one another I will answer the question. YES! I can defend HBO, Curb Your Enthusiasm is enough reason for me to lie down in front of a bulldozer!
Now you may go back to your "no I'm right you're wrong" debate on which side (left or right) is more ridiculous, which by the way is purely semantics. There is no Democrat or Republican party, there is only power and money and those in control would have you think that there are options and that you might make a change with the passing of the political torch every 4 to 8 years. The truth is, the rich get richer, the powerful always sit on top of this feudal pyramid, and you and I are all on the same team, but we are blinded by our own ignorance thanks to our "eye for an eye" arguments on whose party is better or more righteous. Has anything ever really changed? Politics, like everything else fluctuate with the natural ebb and flow of the good times and the bad, just hang on tight and don't take sides with those parties who only represent their own gain and to hell with whatever fallout that may effect the average citizen.
I guess what I am trying to say is....I like HBO.
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