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Post by Ktp1989 on May 11, 2012 18:50:17 GMT -5
Maybe now the BC will ask the membership what it wants this time...instead of asking the TL's or assuming they know!
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Post by brizzel on May 11, 2012 18:53:30 GMT -5
Our union doesn't care what we want. Local doesn't matter one way or the other. Trucks will be built.
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Post by tryingtomakeit on May 11, 2012 20:09:59 GMT -5
Hmmm, maybe people on the floor would like to have an opportunity to exercise some seniority and get a bid job like TL. What a concept. Or maybe the rank and file are fucking fed up and decided to be contrary just for the sake of being contrary. Or maybe this was a big middle finger to the IUAW, by way of flipping off the local. Or maybe all of the above.
I guess we can all expect to get the cold shoulder and look of disdain from local leadership because they really worked their ass for us on this agreement.
What are we going to do now without our bandsaw and Gatorade? At least we still got our stamp machine!!!!
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Post by ScottR@KTP on May 11, 2012 20:33:45 GMT -5
I don't have a TL...so they have no idea what I want. Bid TLs with no grandfathering and immediate 10-1 which creates LOTS of jobs. Our union is against adding jobs...I'm dumbfounded.
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Post by ScottR@KTP on May 11, 2012 21:33:10 GMT -5
The new union card, Derby pin, and commemorative coins must not be boosting morale.
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Post by marcus on May 11, 2012 22:12:46 GMT -5
Well said Scott.Bid tl with no grandfather and create jobs
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Post by keithf on May 11, 2012 23:14:21 GMT -5
how many times does it need to get voted down before the bargaining committee starts to listen to those that they are paid to represent? may be well past time to get some better representation. AND, the lack of real leadership from up north only makes the job of selling this crap harder on the locals.
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Post by lucifer on May 12, 2012 5:58:34 GMT -5
Maybe if they gave out coins before the vote.... I'll take 1 gold Krugerrand for each year of the contract please.
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Post by remember1976 on May 12, 2012 7:45:18 GMT -5
Hmmm... The first time it failed with 1004 members voting 60% against. The "no" vote increased. I'm guessing a higher turnout this time.
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Post by rky792 on May 12, 2012 8:33:16 GMT -5
Well said Scott.Bid tl with no grandfather and create jobs I personally don't want to bid TL jobs, I want a say in who represents me in this position, and I also want a way to get rid of a suck ass tl.
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Post by jgt150ktp on May 12, 2012 8:47:59 GMT -5
Our union doesn't care what we want. Local doesn't matter one way or the other. Trucks will be built. This is the most true and honest thing I have ever seen on this webite. IMHO.
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Post by ScottR@KTP on May 12, 2012 8:48:00 GMT -5
Hmmm... The first time it failed with 1004 members voting 60% against. The "no" vote increased. I'm guessing a higher turnout this time. @ 1300
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Post by ScottR@KTP on May 12, 2012 8:49:10 GMT -5
Well said Scott.Bid tl with no grandfather and create jobs I personally don't want to bid TL jobs, I want a say in who represents me in this position, and I also want a way to get rid of a suck ass tl. There's a big problem with the current way to get rid of a bad TL...it's nearly impossible. They want you to believe it can be done, but it is a long drawn out, nearly impossible task.
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Post by Ktp1989 on May 12, 2012 9:02:25 GMT -5
Bottom line bid the TL jobs with no grandfathering...make seniority the rule in this plant. If a bid job TL doesn't do his job it's managements responsibility to have him or her removed just as any other bid job. It's time to put seniority back in determining these jobs and eliminate these guys that worry more about the boss then their own team members.
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Post by ScottR@KTP on May 12, 2012 10:10:12 GMT -5
Couldn't agree more...but we need 4 guys representing us that believe seniority matters. For the most part, they don't...this is where it's better to have a leader with a lot of seniority...they usually make sure seniority rules.
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Post by trinitus on May 12, 2012 13:19:40 GMT -5
Until people in this place seniority matter's, we will be doomed. The membership HAS to see that it matter's from the top. That means our top FIVE union leader's has to take a stand.
1. Todd Dunn
2. Scott Eskridge
3. Bryan Kessinger
4. Rodney Janes
5. Royce Epperson.
These five need to understand SENIORITY MATTERS. If not to them, then to us it does.
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Post by bryano on May 12, 2012 16:34:43 GMT -5
Wait and see what happens in the next elections when LAP has more people than KTP. The president and vp and board jobs may change a lot. Seniority only matters if you have it with these guys. By the time they have more than everyone else they will have so many new hires in here that they will screw themselves. They have forgotten what it's like to work on the line, if they ever even had to for very long. All they know is to say that management can do what they want and they don't want to take a stand on anything.
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Post by dave7293 on May 12, 2012 21:41:45 GMT -5
The new union card, Derby pin, and commemorative coins must not be boosting morale. What commemorative coin...... now see I would of voted yes if they gave me a coin.... LOL.......A BIG JOKE is what our local and national is. And greed is what started it all.....a dealy sin.
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Post by dave7293 on May 12, 2012 21:44:48 GMT -5
Until people in this place seniority matter's, we will be doomed. The membership HAS to see that it matter's from the top. That means our top FIVE union leader's has to take a stand. 1. Todd Dunn 2. Scott Eskridge 3. Bryan Kessinger 4. Rodney Janes 5. Royce Epperson. These five need to understand SENIORITY MATTERS. If not to them, then to us it does. Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by tryingtomakeit on May 12, 2012 23:41:50 GMT -5
Well said Scott.Bid tl with no grandfather and create jobs I personally don't want to bid TL jobs, I want a say in who represents me in this position, and I also want a way to get rid of a suck ass tl. Well, then enjoy your 30 years on the line.
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Post by rky792 on May 13, 2012 6:52:50 GMT -5
I personally don't want to bid TL jobs, I want a say in who represents me in this position, and I also want a way to get rid of a suck ass tl. There's a big problem with the current way to get rid of a bad TL...it's nearly impossible. They want you to believe it can be done, but it is a long drawn out, nearly impossible task. If you have a yearly election how is it impossible? And how would you ever get rid of a bid tl?
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Post by marcus on May 13, 2012 7:31:34 GMT -5
Its two years for TL insnt it..30 years on line will cost ford millions on medicals
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Post by ScottR@KTP on May 13, 2012 7:38:47 GMT -5
The same way ppl lose bids all the time...get disqualified for attendance, performance, medical, inability to perform...several ways. As for the current way...petition the union...petition the company...and this takes at least 6 months...and all the TL has to do is start performing and they can't be replaced under the current removal process. TLs hold their position for 2 years...not every year.
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Post by Ktp1989 on May 13, 2012 11:39:41 GMT -5
Union-seniority............bid the jobs. Even those who don't agree will one day when the get seniority...this is crazy that this is even up for discussion. Bid the jobs...do the right thing.
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Post by ScottR@KTP on May 13, 2012 12:17:04 GMT -5
That is what has baffled me from day one...we have union brothers/sisters doing all they can to remove seniority from a union shop. It is ALL we have...it only sucks when you are near the bottom...but one day, you will love to use your seniority to get a better job.
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Post by nvsked1 on May 13, 2012 17:33:14 GMT -5
We will have to sit back down to see "what now". Though Bid team leaders was complaint we heard it was not from a lot of people. And since only around 26% of the membership voted, I'm not real sure if/when we change that it doesn't get voted down again. The majority of the plant didn't voice their opinion one way or the other. I would rather it been a resounding 2000 against so the message was clear instead of an "i don't care". I know I will get flamed for this but if the plant wanted bid team leaders that badly they would have come out in numbers. But, what else can we do but fix that? And see how it goes, this is just my opinion there are 5 people bargaining. The trades is a more identifiable fix. Read more: scottrlap.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=rumors&action=display&thread=11633&page=1#ixzz1un6ZZ1WNKess.... I question if your personal opinions cloud your judgement, on the team leader issue. Ever wonder how those exit polls predict elections with 1 percent of the voting reported. Surveys are all math, if you poll 1000 people and 66% say NO then its easy to predict the out come of an election. If 1000 people vote, and 600 say No... then if 3000 vote, 1800 will say no plus or minus 2 %... Its how life insurance is sold, elections predicted etc... Statistics and probability. The vote is saying (as one poster pointed out) the problem with this plant is the the management staff treats people like shit. Our seniority must be respected, its about all we have. The management staff sticks together better than this membership, management bullies the membership and our big brother the equalizer the union says I'll write a grievance or show me the contract violation.... I appreciate you coming on here, looking for the issues.... The union needs to use all the tools that the contract provides to represent this membership, and it starts respect / seniority.... Read more: scottrlap.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=rumors&action=display&thread=11633&page=1#ixzz1un70QfzXWe fixed it last time to what the membership wanted, we will fix it again. The next proposal will have TL bids along with some of the other thing that need to be addressed. The $1.50 being over arps. You never heard that from me, i have posted here stating that it would not be over ARPS. The national pay rate was lower than the ARPS rate we have received for years at KTP and the TL rate over that national rate is around $1.50. So if you feel lied to about this you will have to take that up with someone else, I have been clear about this. As to walking areas, we walk areas all the time, granted the areas I walked were on nights due to being on nights right now, but the signal I got was not the signal that showed up at the ballot box, so not sure that process worked right. Some said they feel people may not want to voice their concerns directly to us, so we are meeting with the TL's ands asked them to get a pulse from their teams. Maybe people feel more comfortable with a messenger. As we see here, many prefer to post under a fake name, maybe its the same thing. Read more: scottrlap.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=rumors&action=display&thread=11633&page=2#ixzz1un7ogM4wWe will fix it. And we are trying to figure out the grandfather issue. It is something the company is totaly opposed to, so we will have to work around that. Also be aware that the teamleaders that want them to be bid jobs obviously want the TL's to be grandfathered, so this issue will be splitting the pro teamleader bid vote either way it goes, not sure how to fix that but we will see if we can. We will have to try to come up with something. I AM NOT SAYING THIS IS GOING ONE WAY OR ANOTHER........we have to sit down with the company to get the ball rolling. Just responding Read more: scottrlap.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=rumors&action=display&thread=11633&page=2#ixzz1un8kpVv9I seriously doubt that. If the KTP BC foolishly concludes that 60% voted "no" and two thirds stayed away over a single issue they will see a second ratification defeat. This is one angry, cynical and disaffected membership. That took years to create. It may well take years to fix. Read more: scottrlap.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=rumors&action=display&thread=11633&page=2#ixzz1un93IaScsorry some of this stuff was worth the re-post
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Post by ScottR@KTP on May 13, 2012 22:06:22 GMT -5
There was no change with the TL situation...so what exactly would ppl come out in droves and vote against. Put the language in the contract...bid TLs and no grandfathering and see how many show up to vote...maybe that will motivate ppl to vote...whether they are against or for???
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Post by nvsked1 on May 14, 2012 6:42:26 GMT -5
If the KTP BC foolishly concludes that 60% voted .....and two thirds stayed away over a single issue they will see a second ratification defeat. This is one angry, cynical and disaffected membership. That took years to create. It may well take years to fix. Read more: scottrlap.proboards.comSorry quote should have read as listed above
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Post by badcat555 on May 14, 2012 12:08:20 GMT -5
I agree with Ktp1989..Bid the TL jobs!!..BC needs to listen to the people not the Team Leaders!
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ace4
New Member
Posts: 2
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Post by ace4 on May 14, 2012 13:45:17 GMT -5
I can't stand it no more -------> enough with the bid TL jobs. Put that on the next local contract and you'll have 75% turn it down. I understand all points of views on this topic (pros and cons) , but the majority don't want it . -------> Please put it to rest and move on to something else.
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