HEAT BREAKS YET.? DONT BE DEAD.. GO TO MEDICAL

[lucero]

Aug 12, 2010 12:48:30 GMT -5 kessinger said:

Lucero,
I know you got gatoraide, CAP said it was first time ever. But, you sure you got heat relief? When I called and asked they laughed at me and gave me a sarcastic "yea right"

well kess, having family and friends at KTP and hearing about the lack of representation there, I find it hard to believe that the union is doing much let alone calling up to CAP to verify a claim about heat breaks. We did get an extra long break one day, I was told it was due to the heat. But I can tell you that everyday there has been ice and water and our upgraders have been making sure we are getting it.

[jmudd]

the only heat break you are gonna get is when u fall out. and even then you will still have to walk to medical

[kessinger]

Lucero I know you feel lied to by 862. I don't know you, or why you feel that way, but I am sure you have your reasons. That doesn't make all of us liars. I have read the thread you started on the CAP thread on this site, and it seems your fellow LAPers don't have the same opinion of CAP is better than LAP you do.

Let em be clear, I don't think we do everything better than everyone. We have places to improve on as other plants do. I understand their are things you like better at the plants you come from and we try to take the ideas that are better and use them.

But, let me give you an example. We tried to make TL's a bid job last time and the KTP membership hated the idea. Now, most of the folks from LAP liked the idea of bid TL's and said so on this site back then. The people that hated the thought of bid teamleaders the most were those from Atlanta, they came from a plant that had bid TL's and they rabidly hated it unless they were teamleaders. So, people from different plants feel differently about the same subject.

[86gn]

Aug 17, 2010 9:52:19 GMT -5 kessinger said:

But, let me give you an example. We tried to make TL's a bid job last time and the KTP membership hated the idea. Now, most of the folks from LAP liked the idea of bid TL's and said so on this site back then. The people that hated the thought of bid teamleaders the most were those from Atlanta, they came from a plant that had bid TL's and they rabidly hated it unless they were teamleaders. So, people from different plants feel differently about the same subject.

From what I was told about this example, the reason no one wanted this is because the union wanted to "grandfather everyone in" who was already a teamleader. I would vote that down too, but I do think ATL should be a bid job started with a clean slate. I do not think the leadership @ KTP has any clue or dont much care what most of the membership out here wants. I think some of ya may want changes to be made but either bow down to what the company wants or what the higher up union people want.

IMO.. The company( and some of the union ) loves the modern operating agreement over the traditional because the confussion it causes with differerent rules between the teams we spend much of our time blaming each other and the union they just get to do what they want. I cant tell ya how many times since I have been @ KTP that when I have a problem the only thing I get from my committeman is " well what did your team vote".

[marcus]

Great post 86gn

[ScottR@KTP]

Team Leaders should be voted...plain and simple. When a team leader opening occurs (example Team K, shift 3, body), a bid should be posted for that job. People act as if it's easy to get a shitty team leader removed, but it really isn't. They get 2 years, and if during that 2 year period, you want them out...the procedure to do so is quite ridiculous. All they have to do is behave for a while and they keep their job.
Considering KTP has over 3 times more people than LAP but probably less bid jobs is ludicrous. I assume it's all about the MOA vs. COA.

[marcus]

So few bid jobs, how hard is it going to be on people when they get 20Plus years in.Talk about medicals.

[ScottR@KTP]

Noticed I left out a key word in my last post...NOT. TL should not be voted, but put on bid board.

[ktp399]

Team Leader should be voted by team. They are the ones that know the people, jobs and area. If it was a bid job, it would be a total disaster. You gave your good and bad team leaders in the plant, and to get rid of one should be an easier process. It all comes down to how well you work together.

[ktpnightshift4life]

team leaders need to be voted on by the team, not by bid. The majority are pretty good and those that aren't end up back on the line. Frankly there have been no complaints about voting in teamleaders until many transferred from LAP and found out that it was a voted postion by the team, not a a bid job. The KTP membership overwhelmingly turned down the last local contract because of this issue alone when the company wanted to make it a bid job. Once this was dropped and teamleader remained a voted job the contract was passed.

[JoePieper]

Ok we have gone from heat breaks to Team Leader. Lets lock this thread and start a new one for the TL argument.

[ScottR@KTP]

LOL...I agree.

[inspect96]

If a TL needs to be a team vote because they know the jobs and the people then relief should be a team vote and thats not going to happen. It easier to vote out a union rep than a TL. Put it up for bid !!

Kess, you said you guys take ideal from other places..then you guys really need to fix the overtime system..its never be right and never will. Someone somewhere has to have a better system.

[lucero]

Aug 17, 2010 9:52:19 GMT -5 kessinger said:

Lucero I know you feel lied to by 862. I don't know you, or why you feel that way, but I am sure you have your reasons. That doesn't make all of us liars. I have read the thread you started on the CAP thread on this site, and it seems your fellow LAPers don't have the same opinion of CAP is better than LAP you do.
Well, first off I dont "feel" lied to, I was lied to many times. "just vote for this COA and nobody gets laid off, its okay we got a note from Joe Bob that says so" is one example. And yes it does make you all liars. " Be your brothers keeper" isnt that one of the nice little sayings you guys like to use? Well when one of your fellow representatives is out spreading bad info or not doing what they were elected to do then yeah, your gonna get some heat for it. As far as me thinking CAP is better than LAP , I know the local up here needs improvement, but they also recently cleaned house of old leadership who were ineffective and replaced them with younger minds who have a vested interest in the future of the plant. Something that I personally believe the membership of 862 should have done a long time ago.

[bo862]

Your leadership at lap misinforms you so your going to blame ktp leadership? Sounds like you should be on lap boards ripping their ass.

Ktp has already cleaned house of old leadership who were ineffective and replaced them with younger minds who have a vested interest in the future of the plant. I believe this happened around 2007.

As far as heat breaks, I dont know what you all are whinning about but it feels like they turned the AC on for c crew!

[trinitus]

Now it is time for me to piss you all off AGAIN. I want to adress a couple or three things on this thread.

1. Here in the Ohio Valley during the months of June, July and August it has always been hot. Always has been always will be so just effin deal with it. For those of us who have lived here all our lives we have accepted the way of life now time ot get over it because August is almost over and you still have no had damn extra heat breaks that wasn't caused by a mechanical breakdown. We might not like the heat but we have learned to cope with it the best we can.

2. Lucero and Kess quit your bitch slapping and hug. I am sure the Union Reps at LAP just like the ones at KTP have lied to you Lucero, now is time to let it go. Kess I can't understand why you feel so strongly in defending this local while you yourself know that lies have been made and told by both the Union and the Company. Here is a shocker to both of you as well as the rest of the membership, al plants have the lies from both sides of the fence, we can't stop it so we bitch about it here.

3. Kess earlier I made the comment about how the union rigs the elections yet you have failed to comment on this subject. Why is that Kess? could it be that I am right or is it you just can't think of a better story to tell about how great the system is.

4. Lucero and bo862, yes KTP cleaned house of the old leadership but we did it in 2002 or 2003 when Dicky retired and Mike Stewart got in. Boy look how that turned out. Mike Abel got in back in what was it 2005 or so, look what happened there. He appointed some of the committeepeople to better Union positions and had his Son placed as a Benefits Rep without letting the membership know of the potential opening. I feel this Union leadership is just as bad as the rest.

5. For the Issue about the TL and my take on it go over to that thread.

[marcus]

Nobody should ever be allowed to appoint there own son to a union job thats PURE BS!!!!!!!!!!

Im for NO appointed union jobs all voted on.

[kessinger]

trinitus,
Where did you post that we rig elections? If i was dirty enough to rig an election I assure you I wouldn't have had my first local crash and burn by 90 plus percent. If we rigged elections than how did Dicky and Stewart ever get voted out? Did they rig it for the other guy? Wow, that seems like a strange thing to do. If we rig elections explain the last two examples? This is an old argument and kinda floats around without any proof.

Why do I defend KTP trinitus, because people like to make claims with no facts to support them. Like "rigged elections". If you think it's rigged "man up" (to use your favorite term) and run for the election committee. Or be like Bo on here and come to the polls as a challenger. It is open to any member to come watch the tallies or watch people vote as long as you don't campaign or obstruct. Bo speak up here, I know you do this. Don't play the victim trinitus, now lets hug and make up.

Lucero, ok you got lied to. I can't help you there. I have been lied to before to, yet I don't blame you for that.

I have posted my TL arguments on that thread. Look forward to future arguments with all of you.

[trinitus]

Kess check your PM.