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Post by thevocalmajority on May 4, 2015 12:26:58 GMT -5
My god who ever said anyone owes me a thing!!!! Go back and read the original post! All I said was it wouldn't be within the principles of a union for tier one to get a raise while there is still such a pay gap and that you all should have understood this in 2007. You people really think your entitled and better than us. Again 90% of us " leeches" are your family members. Wow this is even worse than I imagined.
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Post by nra4life on May 4, 2015 12:42:04 GMT -5
My god who ever said anyone owes me a thing!!!! Go back and read the original post! All I said was it wouldn't be within the principles of a union for tier one to get a raise while there is still such a pay gap and that you all should have understood this in 2007. You people really think your entitled and better than us. Again 90% of us " leeches" are your family members. Wow this is even worse than I imagined. You know what we understood in 2007? We got out of bed in the morning wondering if we still had a job. Both GM & Chrysler went under. We checked the paper/news every morning to see if the dam place was still open or not. Our own union lied to us to get us to give up shit that we will never get back. It was us, legacy employees, against Ford & the UAW. Its nothing but luck and the fact neither Ford or UAW was smart enough to take $5 an hour away from us because believe me they could have asked for it & the UAW would have scared enough to vote for yes for it. Only way we are going to get anything back is to hit the streets & im betting most dont have the nuts to walk when push comes to shove. Unless we walk none of us are getting a raise. Will be more b.s signing bonuses. Damn shame the memebership is fighting against each other while the UAW & Ford are in bed together. Gona take a revolution to change things, hope we have 51% of the people willing to do it. |
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Post by thevocalmajority on May 4, 2015 13:04:50 GMT -5
My god who ever said anyone owes me a thing!!!! Go back and read the original post! All I said was it wouldn't be within the principles of a union for tier one to get a raise while there is still such a pay gap and that you all should have understood this in 2007. You people really think your entitled and better than us. Again 90% of us " leeches" are your family members. Wow this is even worse than I imagined. You know what we understood in 2007? We got out of bed in the morning wondering if we still had a job. Both GM & Chrysler went under. We checked the paper/news every morning to see if the dam place was still open or not. Our own union lied to us to get us to give up shit that we will never get back. It was us, legacy employees, against Ford & the UAW. Its nothing but luck and the fact neither Ford or UAW was smart enough to take $5 an hour away from us because believe me they could have asked for it & the UAW would have scared enough to vote for yes for it. Only way we are going to get anything back is to hit the streets & im betting most dont have the nuts to walk when push comes to shove. Unless we walk none of us are getting a raise. Will be more b.s signing bonuses. Damn shame the memebership is fighting against each other while the UAW & Ford are in bed together. Gona take a revolution to change things, hope we have 51% of the people willing to do it. I did lose a job at ktp during those times, in fact I was layed off twice in a single year from two different employers.so I understand and I agree with you. I honestly don't mean disrespect to most of you. I'm a third generation ford employee, I just can't understand that closing the gap as much as possible isn't issue #1. A .25 raise for 80% legacy would equal $1 raise for the 20% entry level. Just seems like the right thing to me. |
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Post by bluelu on May 4, 2015 13:16:37 GMT -5
I agree With the op. I have been at ford since 1999. I voted no back then and I will always vote no until it is equal pay for equal work.......................
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Post by Ex-metalman on May 4, 2015 13:17:55 GMT -5
I said 18 to 25 dollars an hour..Also I know it would be more than what you settled for here..Don't sit and get drunk in the lot(but I have) .I'm 51 and have 8 more yrs to retire so I don't need some dildo telling me shit..I worked trim 9 yrs and that's my hazing into this place.When you get 10 yrs in maybe you can have a gripe .Till then either suck it up like WE ALL HAD TO DO..or quit there is no other options.NOBODY IS ON YOUR SIDE ...Plus I have a mobile welding business and I have made in the 100s of dollars an hour so ?
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Post by thevocalmajority on May 4, 2015 13:40:47 GMT -5
I said 18 to 25 dollars an hour..Also I know it would be more than what you settled for here..Don't sit and get drunk in the lot(but I have) .I'm 51 and have 8 more yrs to retire so I don't need some dildo telling me shit..I worked trim 9 yrs and that's my hazing into this place.When you get 10 yrs in maybe you can have a gripe .Till then either suck it up like WE ALL HAD TO DO..or quit there is no other options.NOBODY IS ON YOUR SIDE ...Plus I have a mobile welding business and I have made in the 100s of dollars an hour so ? I'd say 28% of ford, 44% of Chrysler and 20% of gm are on side. As well as some of the family members that got those people hired! And by the way, you and your buisness is so cool. Why didn't you tell everyone again how you an entrepreneur! |
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Post by saugerman on May 4, 2015 13:51:36 GMT -5
I said 18 to 25 dollars an hour..Also I know it would be more than what you settled for here..Don't sit and get drunk in the lot(but I have) .I'm 51 and have 8 more yrs to retire so I don't need some dildo telling me shit..I worked trim 9 yrs and that's my hazing into this place.When you get 10 yrs in maybe you can have a gripe .Till then either suck it up like WE ALL HAD TO DO..or quit there is no other options.NOBODY IS ON YOUR SIDE ...Plus I have a mobile welding business and I have made in the 100s of dollars an hour so ? I'd say 28% of ford, 44% of Chrysler and 20% of gm are on side. As well as some of the family members that got those people hired! And by the way, you and your buisness is so cool. Why didn't you tell everyone again how you an entrepreneur! back peddling and whining.....just let it drop..your on the wrong side of history dude...nobody that was here during those times cares about you or your family...get in line with the rest of us..we have been screwed over too much to care about newbies at this point (sorry). If you had been through what the older people have you would have the same attitude So suck it up or go somewhere else where they will treat you better |
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Post by saugerman on May 4, 2015 14:02:10 GMT -5
I pray for your sake that u are NOT the vocal majority!! Put ur ear bud in grab ur tools and get to work youngbuck..let the adults decide what's best for us!! Remember there are more of us than there are you!! We are the reason u have a JOB in the first place!!Now wait ur damn turn like the rest of us have and it will all work out in the end!! it is not all about us..It's all about him lol....wish ford would once hire some new ones with some sort of mental ability |
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Post by thevocalmajority on May 4, 2015 14:04:35 GMT -5
Saugerman
No I get it! all you care about is yourselves you guys have made that perfectly clear. Which is fine, it just proves that you all are hypocrites. So take the Uaw sticker off your crew cab cause that not what you stand for!
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Post by saugerman on May 4, 2015 14:32:37 GMT -5
Saugerman No I get it! all you care about is yourselves you guys have made that perfectly clear. Which is fine, it just proves that you all are hypocrites. So take the Uaw sticker off your crew cab cause that not what you stand for! before you post anything else stupid...go back and look at other posts on this...your not the first to think this up anyhow...I would gladly be a hypocrite than a self-centered uninformed moron..but please continue...... |
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Post by Ex-metalman on May 4, 2015 14:35:52 GMT -5
I figured from your first post that you were a loser..Prolly still live at home with your daddy that got you this job..All I stated was I can make it with out this place.Can you?I hope you don't get shit but more work added to your job..From what I've seen of the new hires you won't last..get you a mower and start cutting..Or maybe become a supervisor?
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Post by gocards on May 4, 2015 14:47:29 GMT -5
I just don't really understand the gripe about the united we stand. To me you are the one with the problem. You threw out the equal pay for the same day work when you accepted to come to work under the new set of rules.The problem you want we have and was told you would never get it. I hate what they did with the 2 tier I also voted NO. But by you and only you accepting the terms of your employment don't bitch at us legacy employee for asking for what we should of had years ago before you were even hired a raise. We all want more money or you wouldn't be working. I want everyone to earn more money but don't tell me I don't get a raise till you catch up with my pay. You are asking for a pot of fools gold. we all shoild be making more under the agreement we all have.
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Post by thevocalmajority on May 4, 2015 14:59:17 GMT -5
Saugerman No I get it! all you care about is yourselves you guys have made that perfectly clear. Which is fine, it just proves that you all are hypocrites. So take the Uaw sticker off your crew cab cause that not what you stand for! before you post anything else stupid...go back and look at other posts on this...your not the first to think this up anyhow...I would gladly be a hypocrite than a self-centered uninformed moron..but please continue...... Self centered, wow your an idiot too! This entire thread was me trying to explain that the legacy people who think their raise is more important than equality are wrong AND SELFISH. This is not what the union was build on and is not what has been fought for. That is an opinion and a point of discussion. And actually I am very well informed. I'd be happy to debate my knowledge with you at anytime. I feel like I'm lord helmet but instead of assholes I'm surrounded by idiots!!!! |
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Post by thevocalmajority on May 4, 2015 15:05:58 GMT -5
So your answer is widen the gap further as long as you get a raise from $28.That's brilliant! I wish you people had the slightliest clue what these 10,15,20 yrs of skills you've learned would bring you in today's real work force. You would all be singing an entirely different tune I promise! Straight ignorance!
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Post by badcat555 on May 4, 2015 15:13:26 GMT -5
Dam man I think they said it best when they told you to just quit. I have been here 26 years and I don't think I have ever heard somebody cry as much as you. You have no idea what kind of blood & sweat we have been through. We so deserve a raise over you cry babies that just come off the street and think you should just get it handed to you. If you want the job just lay in there and get it like we have all of these years. If you don't just get the hell out!.. quit crying. No body here wants to listen to a whining ass.
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Post by thevocalmajority on May 4, 2015 15:17:01 GMT -5
Another idiot, Jesus! are you and sauger cousins?
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Post by nra4life on May 4, 2015 15:18:24 GMT -5
So your answer is widen the gap further as long as you get a raise from $28.That's brilliant! I wish you people had the slightliest clue what these 10,15,20 yrs of skills you've learned would bring you in today's real work force. You would all be singing an entirely different tune I promise! Straight ignorance! I dont give 2 fucks what it brings anywhere else, i know what it brings st Ford and i be damned if im giving up another nickel without a fight. Company has record profits, big shots are shoving money in their pockets and im fed up. i hope for your sake the 2 tier ends but im looking out for me this time around, fucking union wont |
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ktpgirl
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A journey of 1,000 miles begins with a single step.
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Post by ktpgirl on May 4, 2015 15:26:54 GMT -5
You know what we understood in 2007? We got out of bed in the morning wondering if we still had a job. Both GM & Chrysler went under. We checked the paper/news every morning to see if the dam place was still open or not. Our own union lied to us to get us to give up shit that we will never get back. It was us, legacy employees, against Ford & the UAW. Its nothing but luck and the fact neither Ford or UAW was smart enough to take $5 an hour away from us because believe me they could have asked for it & the UAW would have scared enough to vote for yes for it. Only way we are going to get anything back is to hit the streets & im betting most dont have the nuts to walk when push comes to shove. Unless we walk none of us are getting a raise. Will be more b.s signing bonuses. Damn shame the memebership is fighting against each other while the UAW & Ford are in bed together. Gona take a revolution to change things, hope we have 51% of the people willing to do it. I did lose a job at ktp during those times, in fact I was layed off twice in a single year from two different employers.so I understand and I agree with you. I honestly don't mean disrespect to most of you. I'm a third generation ford employee, I just can't understand that closing the gap as much as possible isn't issue #1. A .25 raise for 80% legacy would equal $1 raise for the 20% entry level. Just seems like the right thing to me. If you have family here, why didnt they get you on during the 98-99 big hiring? Since you missed it for whatever reason and just got in, you want to try to make the people making the good money feel bad? Nice try but it wont happen here. I earn every dollar I make, just like Im sure you feel the same way. Just work and be patient. |
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Post by thevocalmajority on May 4, 2015 15:43:06 GMT -5
Well cause I graduated hs in 2000 so there's that....People I gonna say it as clear and simple as I can since it's obvious some of you are struggling.
Two tier is a clear violation of what the union stands for. And if you agree that legacy gets a raise before that violation is addressed then you should be ashamed to be a member!
Never argue with fools because people from a distance can't tell who is who.
And on that note my message board days are done!
Thank you and good night
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ktpgirl
Amateur
A journey of 1,000 miles begins with a single step.
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Post by ktpgirl on May 4, 2015 15:49:36 GMT -5
Well cause I graduated hs in 2000 so there's that....People I gonna say it as clear and simple as I can since it's obvious some of you are struggling. Two tier is a clear violation of what the union stands for. And if you agree that legacy gets a raise before that violation is addressed then you should be ashamed to be a member! Never argue with fools because people from a distance can't tell who is who. And on that note my message board days are done! Thank you and good night Mission accomplished!! Goodbye to you |
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Post by blackbird66 on May 4, 2015 16:10:00 GMT -5
It's a shame all this hatred, and name calling.
Although no one on here admits to it, I know I worked on the line with plenty of people who had no problem reopening a contract to give back raises and benefits.
If the majority voted to give those things away, then the fault lies with us.
If the UAW lied about the results, then we the represented are still at fault for our lack of oversight.
Two tier only exist because we allowed it.
It is our fault.
When I hired in 20 years ago my wage of around $14/hour once adjusted for inflation, is more than what the new hires make now. I have no idea what it would be like to come in and run these jobs for a salary that is well below middle class.
We are in a very bad situation. We work side by side with second class workers who obviously can't do any better than sub standard wage jobs, and we are partly to blame.
And I fear things will get worse still, before they ever get better.
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Post by rotinhellslugs on May 4, 2015 16:18:52 GMT -5
Thanks ChairGuy! You go & do something stupid, now half of the membership is in a war with each other! That's some great leadership I tell ya!
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Post by rotinhellslugs on May 4, 2015 16:33:36 GMT -5
It's a shame all this hatred, and name calling. Although no one on here admits to it, I know I worked on the line with plenty of people who had no problem reopening a contract to give back raises and benefits. If the majority voted to give those things away, then the fault lies with us. If the UAW lied about the results, then we the represented are still at fault for our lack of oversight. Two tier only exist because we allowed it. It is our fault. When I hired in 20 years ago my wage of around $14/hour once adjusted for inflation, is more than what the new hires make now. I have no idea what it would be like to come in and run these jobs for a salary that is well below middle class. We are in a very bad situation. We work side by side with second class workers who obviously can't do any better than sub standard wage jobs, and we are partly to blame. And I fear things will get worse still, before they ever get better. Finally somebody speaks that is touching on reality! Two Tier has done nothing but make 75% of what goes on in our plants much more difficult which totally affects quality of product. It has negatively affected company jobs also. One thing for sure, it's made the upper echelon much wealthier. Two Tier ain't goin' away! |
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Post by lap65 on May 4, 2015 18:19:53 GMT -5
Thanks ChairGuy! You go & do something stupid, now half of the membership is in a war with each other! That's some great leadership I tell ya! Actually as reprehensible as what he has done is & as much damage it will & has already done to reinforce the public's disdain for us & the company's lack of respect as well as the membership's lack of trust for him.....we can't blame him for the animosity over the 2 tier system, its been there all along & will continue to be as long as it exists. I don't like it, I think it was a bad decision & I did not vote for it, but honestly I have no faith in our votes anymore. I believe the whole system is rigged so that the upper union leadership get what they want no matter what. But I seriously doubt that is ever going away, everything about this country has changed drastically in the last 20 years, from unions, to wages, to healthcare, & on & on. We've turned some corners that there is no going back from, like it or not. Go ahead & do all you can to change it, hopefully it will but if it doesnt, we the legacy employees will have to deal with what we have now, what they give us or what they take away, once it happens there isn't a thing we can do about it, we can gripe & complain but it wont change it, we will have to live with it or find another job. The 2nd tier worker is in exactly the same boat, you will have to deal with what you have now, what they give you or what they take away, you can gripe & complain also but you will have to either live with it or find another job. Hating each other isn't going to change it, but it will make your time here even more miserable than it already is. |
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Post by Ex-metalman on May 4, 2015 18:24:17 GMT -5
I had ZERO to do with the 2 tier..I'll walk out right now and strike if they call for it and if would stop the 2 tier.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2015 19:59:52 GMT -5
Shame on us Legacy workers! Its our fault some of these idiots took 2nd tier jobs because they were to fucking dumb to know what the fuck they were getting into.
My heart pumps purple piss for you. You give the rest of the 2nd tier a bad name. For the most part the 2nd tiers I worked with and trained are good people willing to take their licks and move forward. No one put you in a god dammed choke hold and told you to come to work here.
You wanted attention and you got it. Go pay your child support, car payment and cell phone bill and enjoy your moms basement.
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Post by JoePieper on May 4, 2015 20:18:09 GMT -5
Hey genius go read the current contract. Tier 2 DID get raises while tier 1 DID NOT. So go fuck yourself you idiot. Read the Fuckin contract before you run your mouth.
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Post by bulldognuts on May 4, 2015 20:47:45 GMT -5
We all know in 2007 tough decisions had to be made and they were. Concessions were made and many gains of previous negotiations were lost. As a young adult in the Great Recession I understand you all did what you thought you had too for your families and the companies survival. That being said the union that drew up those concessions and the membership that voted for them should have understood and accepted this: There shouldn't be any pay raises for the legacy employees until the pay scale is equal for the entry level employees. It is such a slap in the face to hear Dennis Williams say "We need to close the gap( not eliminate) and get a raise for our legacy employees who haven't had one in nearly ten years". Why do you( who voted this mess in) feel that you deserve a raise? when whatever ford gives you could be added to whatever the entry level people get. Because if you think they(ford or Uaw) plan on doing away with two tier your wrong. So instead of closing the gap from 40% to 20% why don't you all accept what you already agreed to and give us your raise. And close the gap even more. We are you sons,daughters, nieces and nephews. SHAME ON YOU! Attachments:
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Post by JoePieper on May 4, 2015 21:29:09 GMT -5
I bet you are a Liberal too.
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Post by truthbearer2014 on May 4, 2015 21:54:08 GMT -5
STRIKE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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