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Post by machination on Nov 20, 2015 16:48:55 GMT -5
I sure hope you guys are right about vote rigging and fraud since the vote's going to be so close. I've got a bottle of champagne I'm waiting to pop open if it passes. Though (tho) if it FAILS 49-51 i guess your theories on that get exposed as just more bullshit, so either way I still win  |
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Post by machination on Nov 19, 2015 12:09:16 GMT -5
Im going to crawl in a whole* and stop asking questions. Don't worry about it man. There was a guy on here a while back talking about how foolish some people were. He kept calling them "fulls". And I'm pretty sure I know who he was in the plant and he graduated high school before I did. I'm guessing he didn't do too well in English-as-a-FIRST-language class. So it's all good brother. You can generally tell people who read books from people who wouldn't be caught dead with a book. Occasional misspelling everybody does, but if you see someone who can't fucking spell anything right, that guy doesn't do much reading, which is usually because he's a dumbass, and is TOTALLY ok with remaining a dumbass.  Heel bee da furst too tri too gife sumwon ELSE idvice an wat day shuld bee doin tho. |
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Post by machination on Nov 19, 2015 12:03:49 GMT -5
Guess that was directed at me? Sorry didnt realize you were doing the Google doc thing, ive been posting all the locals results since for FCA, GM and now us. Only suggestion I have is when you update it maybe change the subject to "updated at 10:00" so people on phones dont have to continuously click through seeing if it has been updated. I didnt realize you had Local 3000 results up or I would not have posted, dont want to spam the board with double post. Stay strong people! No no the sarcasm was based on the results for the equity of sacrifice it mysteriously passed remember? He's referring to the half-hearted allegation made by some that the UAW committed fraud. I say half-hearted because apparently not a single person brought suit against them for this. I could be wrong, but did ANYONE file a suit in court or even lodge a complaint with the NLRB over this allegation? And if so, a link indicating this would be good. I saw something in the sky I didn't recognize once. It was at night. That doesn't mean it was aliens. I concluded it was probably a distant helicopter. Maybe I'm just dumb for not thinking it was aliens. Sometimes vote results are split. That doesn't mean it's fraud. Anyone got proof? Didn't think so... www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdX1vK03hRw |
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Post by machination on Nov 19, 2015 9:10:57 GMT -5
You know, maybe they wont have to do much to tweak the deal enough for passage. Everybody got to make a statement and got the "no" vote out of their system. Maybe all Ford has to do now is give us 2,1,2,1% all in raises, keep everything else the same, and it might pass. A lot of people have gotten a lot off their chests with the no votes. I just hope Sterling Axle and especially LAP stay open for a long time.
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Post by machination on Nov 19, 2015 8:52:14 GMT -5
This is the first time I've dealt with a contract, so can anyone feel me in on a few questions I have. 1. How long will they take to draw out the next tentative agreement? Especially with a holiday coming next week. 2. Will this one move quicker? If a good deal, will it be ratified by Christmas? I'll FILL you in: 1. I would think a few weeks at most, but probably sooner, in my opinion. 2. It's not a good deal unless there's a pony and a 7 day all expenses paid trip to Disneyworld, so no and no. If the next deal is worse than the first one then I'm voting NO. I tried reason and rational thought but I think for the subsequent rounds I'm going to use my feelings instead, so you "anti's" may have just got yourself another no voter. Congrats. Surely we can't fail now because no one has ever regretted acting on their feelings instead of thinking things through right? Like if you're out having a drink and you really feel like punching someone in the face but your mind tells you its a bad idea and will get you arrested, just punch them in the face. You'll feel better for a few minutes, until the reckoning comes. And I'm not making fun of how you misspelled fill, I'm just pointing out that a lot of folks act on their feelings more than rational thought, in my opinion. I misspell stuff sometimes too. Funny coincidence though. |
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Post by machination on Nov 18, 2015 15:34:36 GMT -5
600... They're getting bullied today. Yes they are, id like to see a redo on bonus... 1000 for every year served, nothing else will probabaly change. Damn that's a great idea! A $20,000 bonus?! That's realistic!! But unless they throw in a brand new truck for every member, 4% raises every year, and a fucking pony with a built in jacuzzi hanging off it's pony ass it'll get a big NO vote from me! |
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Post by machination on Nov 18, 2015 9:43:28 GMT -5
I'm sure you're exactly right, on why people voted for that reason. But we were lied to in 2009, by 2011 we knew they were lies. But these plants still passed that bad contract. Lied to almost daily, raise my dues without letting me vote, make me work 11 hour days, damn right Im going to voice my displeasure the only way they hear me. I don't like lies and I don't want to work 11 hours either, but dues amounts should not be subject to a vote. Imagine it. We'd bankrupt our own union if we had control over that. It would be the inmates running the asylum, and that doesn't work out well for the inmates in the end. |
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Post by machination on Nov 17, 2015 16:31:43 GMT -5
we are just some dumbfuck dropouts that dont deserve a raise.....if you agree with that vote yes That's a real bullshit assessment, sorry. And I'm pretty sure you are going to get a raise... |
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Post by machination on Nov 17, 2015 15:43:52 GMT -5
I was only referring to time to reach full pay... Hopefully mach won't respond and say I'm wrong. He will..lol Scott you are absolutely correct. The 18 month time frame increased to 3 years starting with the 1993 contract, so anyone hiring in prior to the ratification of the 1993 contract got to top pay in 18 months. I hired in in 1995 and got to top pay in 3 years. And I couldn't agree more that the 8 year time-frame is absolute bullshit. I very, very much hope that 4 years from now the union will be able to get that time frame lowered so these folks don't have to wait 4 more years. This is a possibility. And if the 2019 contract tries to stop the in-progression people where they are, effectively preventing them from reaching top pay, as some people fear, I will NOT vote for it. |
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Post by machination on Nov 17, 2015 15:33:01 GMT -5
The Democrats could be doing a lot more to support the working class in this country that's for sure, that's one reason (of many) why I'm an independent belonging to no party, but since the Republican Party is openly anti-union and would love to weaken if not completely destroy unions leaving the working-class at the total mercy of companies without any voice whatsoever to improve anything in their work-life whatsoever (wages, benefits, working conditions, etc..), I'm afraid we're stuck with the democrats being the only major party of the two that at least pretends to support us. I'm just going by what I hear out of Republican politicians own mouths. Their own words, not mine. It's not like they try to hide it. |
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Post by machination on Nov 17, 2015 8:46:42 GMT -5
1. if you think this deal creates more tiers, you are either ignorant or lying. Please read pages 210A-212A and then see who is ignorant. I mean that in the best possible way. Lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified. These people are Ford workers in a Ford plant making less money. Aren't those the characteristics of a second tier? Characteristics? Haven't the workers in the parts plants ALWAYS made less than the workers in assembly plants? Welcome to 1950! I'd be ROFL right now if other people's ignorance didn't have the potential to be so destructive. Oh, I almost forgot. I read pages 210A-212A. As per your request, you sir are ignorant. |
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Post by machination on Nov 17, 2015 8:45:24 GMT -5
We all hired in and it took 3 yrs to reach top pay?Dont understand the different contact thing?1995,1999 were contract years and it took 3 yrs for top pay during a 4 yr contract? Jesus Christ. 1995 WAS NOT a contract year. They were 3 year contracts back then. 1993, 1996, then with the 1999 one it changed to 4 years, next was 2003, 2007, then 2011, now 2015. I hired in in 1995 at 70% of top pay. Remember how that worked? Of course not people. Too many folks, even back then, never bothered to read their own contract book and just whined about bs that they didn't even make an effort to understand. WE were at 70% pay, which at my hire date was $12.56/hour. Every six months you went up to the next higher 5% slot. The contract expired ONE year after I hired in, and guess what? They continued the same incremental increases for new hires. I got to top pay after 3 years. This is part of the problem, a very big part of the problem. There are some very vocal people on this board who SIMPLY DONT EVEN KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT. Sorry. By all means if they renege on the 8 year deal for newer workers in 2019, I WILL vote no on the 2019 agreement. |
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Post by machination on Nov 16, 2015 18:58:31 GMT -5
KC voting it down is big, the other 3 at least 2 are pretty small numbers employee wise. But looks like it could go either way right now. Big no here. some good in it but more bad that outweighs the good for me, nothing for retirees present or future to amount to anything, 8 years to reach top pay is ridiculous, especially when top pay will be less than $2 more an hour than 18 years earlier. Not nearly enough for legacy in my opinion & healthcare is still open to interpretation in a couple years and they really couldnt give back 6 minutes of break ?? Really? They could easily make them top out by contract end, give legacy at the very least 4 / 4% raises & still given a $10000 signing bonus without borrowing from profit sharing & it wouldn't put a dent in the BILLIONS in profit they have been raking in the last few years. I personally think with the rest the signing bonus wouldnt even need to be as big, but just my opinion. I would have said we dont even sit down to talk without a $2 /hr raise just to get things started, but we will end up with less than that over the life of the contract. i looked through my old, original contract book this weekend. believe in 2000 top out pay was about $22. it went up quite a bit before it quit going up at all. this deal puts us above $30, finally. i agree with damn near all you say. shit, its hard not to. but those concessions aren't coming back. pattern bargaining has ended that. our insurance is going to change, its going to have to change. everybody that has insurance is seeing major changes. also agree that there is not much in here for legacy. this is the result of being separated by tiers. but this deal ends tiers, and gets us on level ground so that we can all gain in the future. That's funny that you mention how this gets rid of tiers. I've seen a few folks on here say that this contract actually creates more tiers. They must have read something that we didn't, or they've been misled, or they're just simply delusional. I thought like you that it ends the tiers. That's how it looked to me. |
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Post by machination on Nov 15, 2015 10:47:18 GMT -5
I'm concerned with the last ten years we gave up 500 million in give backs to save ford motor company and our own jobs and retirements, One man comes in for 6 years and then leaves and takes 400 million dollars. We are the bad guys for wanting our cola back or over time after 8hrs... We're not bad guys for wanting that at all. I'm with you there. People who want more for the workers are the good guys in my book. |
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Post by machination on Nov 14, 2015 13:18:20 GMT -5
Well we're getting the holiday back, we don't pay premiums, and the truck prices have not doubled unless there are some $100,000 trucks here that i haven't seen yet. If you were any more full of shit you'd be a gigantic steaming turd, sorry bro. Don't know about double the price but when Ford admits HISTORIC RECORD PROFITS,that's saying something.We should get an HISTORIC RECORD CONTRACT.... We are. People are just pissed that we aren't getting every single thing back that we gave up, even though we are getting other things instead. This contract is a good contract. |
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Post by machination on Nov 14, 2015 9:47:09 GMT -5
Ok, I don't speak well but how much do you pay to go to the doctor now compared to the past? If you can't see what we've lost in the past 15 years perhaps it's not liquid that's got you in that shape. The price on these vehicles have doubled and we've lost $$ at the same time!!! It's now or never. Grow a backbone. Well we're getting the holiday back, we don't pay premiums, and the truck prices have not doubled unless there are some $100,000 trucks here that i haven't seen yet. If you were any more full of shit you'd be a gigantic steaming turd, sorry bro. |
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Post by machination on Nov 14, 2015 7:14:32 GMT -5
Hey jackass it's not about being lazy explain to me how 1500 people are going to get there and vote then get to work in 15 -20 mins. It will take 2 hrs just toget that many people to find a place to park vote and leave. Common sense would dictate that the vote been held on Wednesday that way B crew could have 2 different times to vote just like you, you moron. You have to be a dumbass democrap Waa waa waa!! I can't do this I can't do that cus the mean old union won't let me!.. I bet you were on welfare or living with mommy right before you got hired at ford weren't you? Excuse after excuse why you can't do something for yourself. Get up at noon then, for once in four years, and go vote instead of being such a whiny-ass titty baby... |
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Post by machination on Nov 13, 2015 19:12:38 GMT -5
I've talked to one person so far that said they were voting for this contract fwiw Most people are going to say they voted no even if they vote yes because they wont feel like arguing with people at work because that place is stressful enough without the added bullshit. Don't take that wrong. I'm not trying to attack your post, I'm just saying. |
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Post by machination on Nov 13, 2015 18:38:09 GMT -5
Need i say more ! flush this turd brothers... It's the best contract we've been offered since at least 2003, and in some respects it's the best one in 20 years. 20 years ago the top pay for an assembler (that's what they used to call VAT's) was $17.94 per hour. With shift premiums NOW, we can already make over $30, and base will be over $30 by the end of this contract, $30.51 for a fully ARPed VAT to be exact. Turd? Hardly. The 2nd tier people now have at least a path to top pay. Sure it can be reworked in 4 years. It can also be argued that the union negotiates for them to hit it in 2 after that, instead of 4 more. For people who think that we're powerful enough to refuse this contract and get something better, but don't believe we're powerful enough to do the same thing 4 years from now to accelerate the newer employees to top pay, a strange duality of thinking is at work, and it just doesn't make any sense. "We're strong and can get more!!" and "We're not strong and can't get more later!" to exist in people's minds at the same time is just kind of mind boggling to me. I think we are strong, but I don't think we're so strong that we will be able to force the company to do whatever we demand. If we were weak we wouldn't have been offered anything and the status quo would have been maintained, or worse. I'm a little surprised we got offered what we did. |
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Post by machination on Nov 13, 2015 18:31:34 GMT -5
Both raises = 1.74. We lost more than that in the concessions. Break times, lost holiday, health care premiums up. Ford is making record profits and were getting 1.74 cent in 15 years time. Facts of life!! Keep drinking the cool-aid that the uaw is serving. I'd rather have trump bargin for me. Uaw is circling the drain. I know it, they know it. Hell even yellow dog knows it. I wish we were getting the break time back, but we are getting the holiday back. I'm puzzled about the health care premium part though. Surely you're aware that we don't pay any premium for our health care. Sooo, you are mentioning the lost holiday without acknowledging it's return, and citing health care premiums which we don't even pay, claiming these untruths are "facts", and declaring that WE are drinking tainted beverages? I'm sorry man, but you need to check your own drink. |
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Post by machination on Nov 13, 2015 18:24:52 GMT -5
How will it be hard for B crew to get there to vote ? SERIOUSLY With not working Monday night, only way to vote is before work. SERIOUSLY WE GET 2-3 DAYS TO VOTE FOR COMMITTEEMEN AND ONLY 18 HRS FOR A CONTRACT!!!!! Oh no you might have to get up before 3pm! What a travesty! It's a conspiracy I tell ya. No other explanation. Although, maybe they do think the huffin' and puffin' crowd can't be bothered to vote without a THREE DAY window. I guess that could be possible. |
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Post by machination on Nov 13, 2015 17:00:36 GMT -5
Keep drinking the kool-aid. They love that. I'm afraid the people drinking the Kool-Aid are actually the ones who think we can NO our way into a $6 an hour pay raise. I wish I was wrong I honestly do. |
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Post by machination on Nov 13, 2015 16:58:42 GMT -5
We don't get to vote on any and every thing that we want to. Take a 40 hour week, that's around 173 hours per month. From that the union takes 2.5 hours pay for dues. That leaves you with 170.5. I made over 70k last year. If someone has a huge problem with having to pay 2.5 hours pay per month in order to get agreements that put your income at double the national average, allowing you to have a nice big house and a middle-class life, then they are truly ungrateful for what they have. Oh no, not 2.5 hours pay! How will I ever survive!... Ha, yea. And I believe the dues haven't been raised since what, sometime in the 1960's? Right to work is coming, then all the titty-baby leeches will be able to get what they've always dreamed of. High wages and benefits without having to contribute a dime. Then years from now when the unions are all gone and the companies get to dictate to you exactly what your pay and benefits will be, without us having ANY say in the matter whatsoever, you'll have all the leeches to blame for it. What about when people get out and then THEY raise YOUR dues????still don't see why the union HAS TO represent someone that's not a paying member..I'm sure some people could careless if they have representation or not,I say good ..ill still pay.. I agree with you. If enough people leave the union dues will eventually have to be raised, again, on remaining members in order to make up for the shortfall. I also agree with you that the union shouldn't have to represent non-members. It's the law though, unfortunately. I'm very glad that you will remain a member metalman. There's a lot at stake for generations to come. The only thing that will reverse the decline in the working-middle-class in this country is increased, not decreased, unionization. |
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Post by machination on Nov 13, 2015 15:30:03 GMT -5
Uaw has no problem upping our dues without us voting on it. We don't get to vote on any and every thing that we want to. Take a 40 hour week, that's around 173 hours per month. From that the union takes 2.5 hours pay for dues. That leaves you with 170.5. I made over 70k last year. If someone has a huge problem with having to pay 2.5 hours pay per month in order to get agreements that put your income at double the national average, allowing you to have a nice big house and a middle-class life, then they are truly ungrateful for what they have. Oh no, not 2.5 hours pay! How will I ever survive!... Ha, yea. And I believe the dues haven't been raised since what, sometime in the 1960's? Right to work is coming, then all the titty-baby leeches will be able to get what they've always dreamed of. High wages and benefits without having to contribute a dime. Then years from now when the unions are all gone and the companies get to dictate to you exactly what your pay and benefits will be, without us having ANY say in the matter whatsoever, you'll have all the leeches to blame for it. |
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Post by machination on Nov 13, 2015 13:48:03 GMT -5
I have no problem with right to work. That should actually force the union to be more active in helping people and negotiating better contracts. If they have to EARN your dues every month, better believe they'll work for it. The way it is now, they don't have to do shit and they'll still get our money. There are a lot of problems with local leaderships and especially national leadership. People would be more than happy to pay even in a RTW state if they see the UAW actually doing something. But instead, bad contracts are passed, half a billion dollars in the strike fund is used for..... what exactly? and we are still forced to pay every single month. If you have no problem with right-to-leech then you have no problem with people reaping good wages and benefits without having to contribute anything, further weakening the union, resulting in even worse contracts down the road, resulting in more leeches who don't get it, further weakening the union, resulting in even worse contracts down the road, and so on. Contracts where you wont be getting anything except continued employment. Gee lets make the union stronger by slashing the amount of money it gets! BRILLIANT!... |
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Post by machination on Nov 12, 2015 14:20:15 GMT -5
I believe our union has sunk to a new low make us come in to vote in the middle of a holiday weekend. Not to mention leaving the deer stand to come vote. I also need to mention that I saw on Facebook that if you don't show up to vote it's an automatic YES vote. I do not believe that but thought I would include in my post. The holiday was yesterday. We just get a Monday off the week after... because Ford will observe holidays whenever it damn well pleases regardless of the day it's actually observed on, because vets fought and died so fat supervisors can have a long weekend. I feel really bad that you might have to skip hunting that weekend for something so important... God forbid. Good thing theres not a UK game on during the voting or local 862 would have a 5% turnout... |
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Post by machination on Nov 10, 2015 18:57:13 GMT -5
So first of many things, we are suppose to feel sorry for C crew to have to vote on a Sunday yet no care about a Tuesday/Wednesday vote for the A/B crew people? Come on how is that fair for umm what did you say Pitufal us??!! Ignorant! How do you expect to accomodate 8,000 people for a Q&A and a vote? Whats your suggestion and did you show up at the union meeting today to suggest it? And you there that insulted Mr Esk I bet u didnt either to say crap to him and u wont show up to the vote to say what you have the balls to say on a computer to him. People on here kill me, this is only a vote that will affect the next 4 years of your life. It affects your pay, which affords you your deer stand and gas to live an hour away, and oh yeah its a holiday weekend I have to come vote-whiiine its because you have a contract and a union that you have a holiday weekend in the first place. Im sure you will come out of your house for less. But go ahead and stay home and complain while you give up your right to vote yes or no and remember all the other places you may have worked before Ford that you had no say in anything and now you do but all you wanna do is complain about its on a Sunday, its a holiday weekend, its too far. Thats the sad thing though instead of discussing the pros and cons of the contract its about where and when. Do all of us who are pro union a favor and just quit and go work at WalMart where you can see your C crew buddies picking up beer and hunting gear but cant get on the Xway and go vote. Pathetic. Keep talking like this and sooner or later when we go right to work state and you dont have a union to blame evetything on, see where you are at then. Remember Scott and your floor reps arent just the union YOU are the union. So close your computer or turn your phone off and go to a meeting and say what you do on here and get real answers and not just a bunch of other belly achers validating your tears. When you get off your knees at the union office read this...Why did you feel the need to become a new member on here???If you can't stand all the griping??Will the real Dumbass please stand up..As for the Pitaful CCREW remark ,that was in a joking manor.That being said if we worked till 530 then had to go all the way to Freedom Hall to vote that would suck..But if we voted a block away at OUR union hall that would be great ..Now you get it????Now that's ignorant.. |
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Post by machination on Nov 4, 2015 13:44:24 GMT -5
It's real simple. Even if you quit paying dues and cease being a member, your wages, benefits, etc., will continue to be negotiated FOR YOU by the UAW. The UAW will still have to provide a minimum of representation FOR YOU if you ever find yourselves in trouble for something. The UAW can only exist if there are dues paying members. ANY organization requires some level of funding in order to function.
Therefore, those of us that will continue to pay our dues will effectively be SUBSIDIZING the economic welfare of those of you who will not be paying dues. The only way that this would NOT be the case is if the non-payers had to negotiate their own pay and benefits package, independently, on their own with the company, like some people do with other companies, such as managers, etc. Even if you were allowed to do that, you would never be able to negotiate wages and benefits for yourselves as high as the UAW has for you. SO, you will still be DEPENDENT on the union for your wage and benefit structure, and therefore dependent on those of us who will continue paying dues to support the existence of that union.
It's actually pretty disgusting and hypocritical how you so-called anti-welfare, individualist, anti-leech "I get mine on my own!" types don't have any problem leeching off everyone else as soon as you get the first chance. If you're going to have the UAW negotiating your wages for you, but refuse to pay a cent to them for such an important service, then you're a leeching, ingrate bum. Make sure you thank a continued union member from time to time for keeping your life afloat for you.
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Post by machination on Nov 4, 2015 9:15:45 GMT -5
Kentucky just elected the republican. So, how many of you are going to cease being our union brothers and sisters once your much longed for right-to-be-a-leech, I mean right-to-work, passes?
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Post by machination on Sept 24, 2015 9:57:56 GMT -5
Maybe some confusion with Double time on SUNDAY came with the START time. The contract stated that any work done on Sunday BEFORE 6pm Start time on Sunday was paid DOUBLE TIME. May of us on C crew would come in and work ciwg clean up for 4 hours a week early Sunday... ie; The Carpet machine needed cleaned every week. paid 4 hours X 2 on Sundays fyi... Yes, coming in EARLY on Sunday was still double time. The double time provision was waived for start times between 6pm and midnight. People are acting like the normal C-crew Sunday of 6pm-4:30am was all double time. This is FALSE. This isn't rocket science people. |
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