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Post by machination on Sept 24, 2015 9:37:01 GMT -5
Actually that 48 hours should read 52.8 base pay hours, forgot the 10% premium. Same shift now based on a 10 hr day would net you 44 base pay hours (40 hrs plus 10% of 4 hrs). The cost savings there alone for the company is astronomical when you factor in profit per truck. You're partially correct. I was referring to the straight time hours. C crew still got an additional 10% shift premium. 52.8 would be total compensation including the effect of your shift premium. 52.8 was NOT "base pay hours". Base pay does NOT take into account overtime premiums or shift premiums. I think you might have meant STRAIGHT TIME hours, which was 48 as I stated. 52.8 is also 7.7 hours less than the 60.5 I've seen tossed around on here a few times, and if they were also meaning straight time hours, the correct 48 is 12.5 hours less than the untrue 60.5. |
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Post by machination on Sept 24, 2015 9:06:03 GMT -5
Ok, somebody had to do this so I guess it will have to be me. After reading some of the flat out dishonest, revisionist history bullshit that some folks seem to be convinced of and intent on spreading, I'm compelled to make some corrections. To make sure that my own memory isn't failing I reviewed the 1999 and 2004 local agreements, and the 1999 and 2003 national agreements. (Yes, there is a year off for the local because it took that long to ratify..) I have every copy of every agreement since I hired in over 20 years ago, so here we go bubble popping:
1. C-crew never got double time all day for working Sunday.
Holy shit what a revelation! Yes, it's true. "Memorandum of Understanding - Alternative Work Schedules - Kentucky Truck Plant" dated Sept. 8 1997 in the 1999 local agreement waived Article IX - Section 10 of the National Agreement which is the specific spot in the national that requires the company to pay us double time on Sundays IF we are on a traditional schedule, so before your panties get all bunched up and you see red understand that this is how it had been since the beginning of 3-Crew and if you had managed to turn ESPN off long enough to read your contract you would have already known this. It's ancient history. But to all you folks who can't trouble yourself with reading the contracts and PROPERLY UNDERSTANDING THEM, SURPRISE! Welcome to 1999......
There is a spot in the wording on the LOU (That means Letter of Understanding for you folks who don't comprehend acronyms) that looks like we could have gotten double time for hours worked after midnight, however I worked that crew and I distinctly remember SATURDAY being the big money day for 1.5 time (That means time-and-one-half...). The language referring to working between 6pm-midnight is indicating the Sunday START time. It's poorly worded but we all understood what it meant back in the day, well, most of us did...
Note: Coming in EARLY on Sunday was still double time. Working your normal shift Sunday was NOT. This is what I am referring to.
2. C-crew did not make 60+ hours of pay for working 40 hours.
SATURDAY was the big money day. Here is a breakdown of the equivalent straight-time hours for working C-Crew for 40 hours back then:
Friday 11 hours, Saturday 15 hours, Sunday 11 hours, Monday 11 hours = 48 hours.
The people saying "back in my day we got 60.5 hours for working 40! RAWR!!!!" are full of shit, sorry. Completely and absolutely FULL OF SHIT. We got time-and-one-half (1.5) for hours worked over 8 in a single day, and all day on Saturday. So kids, you take the 2 hours past the 8 hours for a 10 hour day and multiply them by 1.5 (2x1.5=3) and add that to the 8 hours, for a total of 11 hours. Since Sat. was 1.5 all day, you take 10x1.5= 15.
3. Some people DO like the AWS (Alternate Work Schedule) because it means we only have to work 2 days and 2 nights INSTEAD of 5 nights on the GRAVEYARD SHIFT.
Back when this all started in the 20th century (the late 1990's) nearly everyone I knew was very happy with the idea of working 4 days instead of 5. Working 5 10 hour days was getting old, but even if they had been 8 hour days everyone was thrilled with the idea of only working 4 days, and having the middle of the week off. The people who act like the AWS is universally hated are either LYING or are so damn ignorant that they believe just because they and a few loudmouth malcontents hate, EVERYONE DOES. It's called projection. You're PROJECTING your feelings onto other people, assuming they MUST feel or be the same way. It misrepresents reality and the truth.
4. People who disagree with you are NOT simply doing it because they are "idiots" or don't understand.
The truth is, some people take the time to PROPERLY understand things, whether it be contract wording, alternatives to current or past shift patterns, effects these have on various peoples' lives, etc... but TRUTH is very hard to find here from what I've seen. It's shocking that some people who have worked at KTP over TWENTY YEARS don't seem to have been paying very good attention all this time. Spreading things that are not true and trying to rewrite the past to fit your current arguments does a terrible disservice to the new hires who might be trying to learn something from you people. It's very important that we don't misrepresent the truth, or at worst tell flat out lies.
There. Hopefully I just did a much needed service correcting some of the bullshit. I'll go put my 16 year old contract books back on the shelf.
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Post by machination on Sept 1, 2015 14:22:50 GMT -5
This is definitely a different case than working through lunch, especially considering this is a contract year. It helps us in that we can bank more money in case of a strike, and bank the holiday for an extra personal day, which you can use to AWOL on these fuckers sometime, or at the very least have available if you have an emergency. Working a holiday at double time and getting an extra personal day is a win for us. Working through lunch is chump change and not really a win for anyone except the area bosses, who will make sure to fuck you later for doing it for them.
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Post by machination on Aug 30, 2015 11:17:04 GMT -5
Nothing ford does makes sense. The sooner you understand that the better off you are. People understand that, but do you have any solutions to at least attempt to restore dignity and fairness even a little bit, or are you resigned to get on your hands and knees with a broken broom and a piece of cardboard while the bosses stand over you giggling instead of mopping the bathroom themselves? Your resignation is part of the problem. "Why does it matter, we will have to clean anyway!!" Well then, here's an idea. When the brooms and rags are handed out, people should pass one back to the boss and ask him where he's sweeping? Give the supervisor a rag. "It's not his job!!" you say? Why not? The bosses are EMPLOYEES just like you. They can clean too and still listen to their radio for further instructions while they're doing it. Hand the supervisor a broom. Give the superintendent a stack of rags. Tell the "process coach" to process that pile of dirt into that trash can. And have Voith grieve it ALL! |
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Post by machination on Aug 30, 2015 10:56:21 GMT -5
We fill the system and still have to come in and clean tonight while night shift got a robo call for Friday night? They should of had to come in and clean too then.. Fuckin joke, i'm voting no to everything. B crew paint and body worked 9.5 hours Friday night- we had nonrobo call. I believe he's referring to final, which would be chassis, etc. They got Friday night off. They did not have to come in and do Voith's jobs. |
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Post by machination on Aug 30, 2015 10:34:47 GMT -5
You would think that..Our union should say no to cleaning!!!Have some balls you let them out source clean up anyway!Shit I would stay home for no pay!That should be an option! I hear you, but I think you should get paid sww AND get to stay home. It's not your fault the gantry broke, and you guys did your jobs and filled up the system. Are they going to make the bosses clean toilets when there's nothing else to do? I don't think so. And why not? Because they aren't janitors, and neither are you. AND nothing against janitors or the clean up people AT ALL. They do their jobs and deserve respect, just like we do. WE are vehicle assembly technicians, not clean up. Just like the bosses are supervisors, coaches (whatever the fuck that means), etc., not toilet cleaners. Do the bosses have to clean up when they're all standing around doing nothing? I don't think so. But you all do. Because American workers have had their dignity bred out. It's no different than if they made Voith workers start loading parts and bolting doors on. It's not their job. And before any suckasses decry the "it's not my job" sentiment, why don't the suckasses feel the same way about a broom in the boss's hand? Because they're sheep that's why. dictionary.reference.com/browse/obsequiousIf a single bristle of a broom touches the floor outside of a specific workstation (because cleaning your own workstation IS actually your job), if a single fiber of a cloth rag touches a railing, Voith should fill a grievance, for each instance. That is, if Voith's leaders are able to muster their balls and are willing to argue. "oh but we need to maintain a good working relationship with the company blahblahblah". Maybe the company would have more respect for the workers from the get go if the workers representatives had more backbone. Union leaders' jobs are to advocate for the workers, not make excuses for companies. The company won't respect the workers at all if those workers' "LEADERS" are sycophantic boot lickers. |
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Post by machination on Aug 30, 2015 10:25:49 GMT -5
If they make you people go in tonight to "clean" it kind of looks like punishment. Did they make final come in and "clean" Friday night? Didn't think so. And why not? Because they're better than body shop? Because the bosses in final are more dignified? These are rhetorical questions. I, like you, am trying to make sense of it, and nothing is adding up. Why does final get the night off, but a crew that already sacrifices it's weekends, and the time with family on those weekends, and works through lunch in a cooperative spirit with the company, has to come in not to build trucks (since you already busted ass and filled the system up) but to get on their hands and knees to scoop up dirt, probably with a piece of cardboard for lack of shovels? Anyone who works through their lunches again after being treated with such low regard and disrespect for their hard work and sacrifice is nothing but a pathetic coward, and if you can't survive without the extra 2 hours a week then you're idiots who are incapable of managing your money, sorry. Have some respect for yourselves for Christ's sake.
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Post by machination on Jul 21, 2015 5:32:17 GMT -5
you --->   <---ex-Metalman |
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Post by machination on Jul 21, 2015 5:28:55 GMT -5
Prez of local or POTUS? Dunn not running for re-election?
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Post by machination on Jul 21, 2015 5:24:01 GMT -5
Simple (but never noted yes so)?Raise of a substantial amount,early retirement at 20yrs(not expecting full ret.amount)no mandatory working hrs after 10 hrs.,One minute break back,day after Easter Sunday back.COLA back.2 tiers going nowhere,so that's off the table,And if none of that a large buyout so they can hire more low end employees....that's it.I would love to be gone come 2016..So I'm praying.. Early retirement at 20yrs isn't going to happen in any form other than a pension severing buyout. So your badge of "NO" honor isn't in any danger of being replaced with a "YES" badge of shame anytime soon ex-metalman. Congrats! |
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Post by machination on Jul 21, 2015 5:12:39 GMT -5
It's obvious that he's asking about applying directly without an employee referral.
Call the union hall and ask them if you can speak with an official who knows, hell the benefits reps might know ask for one of them. If they don't they could tell you who to ask that would know. I know in the past people applied at the unemployment office downtown (6th and Cedar) but I think they only took them if Ford was actively hiring at the time. Whether 6th and Cedar is presently taking them for Ford I'm not sure but someone in the union will be able to tell you that. Don't call the inplant office because any old committeeman on phone duty may not be in a position to know.
Obviously the first 2 replies were made by our retarded brothers in toil who are totally unaware that not every single new hire in there got an employee referral but *poof* here they are with a job. Its probably the water in the plant. Don't drink the water kiddos. Your $1.75 will be well spent... |
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Post by machination on Jul 13, 2015 12:52:51 GMT -5
Your a disgrace for a man ! You sound like a big ungrateful cry baby. Have a terrible day. This is social media This had me lmao |
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Post by machination on Jul 13, 2015 12:51:58 GMT -5
Here we go, big tough guy Mr.Company suck ASS Worked the first week of vacation. Enough said. Lol Yea we've got people in there all hard about the plight of the workers while at the same time having regular giggle sessions with the supervisors and bashing the union to the point of wanting it gone (which is absolute idiocy). I've seen them complain all hard-workin-union-blue-collar-like about someone working through lunch on occasion but then they'll come in every fucking holiday, work multiple rdos a year, and volunteer to work shutdown, which is pretty fucking ironic. You butthurt hypocrites can google that word if you're not sure what it means, and the other one. Damn near everybody in there works for a living so those boasting loudmouths who think your opinion outweighs everybody elses can eat shit. Oh, and before you slick ignorant suckasses use your magical suckass powers to declare that you know what or who I am, magically, through your computer screens, like you have in the past, ill answer in advance: No I'm not a union official secretly trolling. No I'm not a new hire. No I'm not in management. So, peace out shit heads. |
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Post by machination on Dec 21, 2014 20:55:04 GMT -5
Why don't you get on your knee's and take another pole\poll? That's better! Bravo! |
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Post by machination on Dec 21, 2014 17:45:26 GMT -5
Finally we agree on something!!!Lets drop the liberal and go with DUMBASS DEMOCRAT ..I'd rather jump off a cliff than abide by the liberal ways that are ruining american family's.. you mispelled it....it's Dumb-A-Crap....if you neeed a definition...I will be more than happy to oblige Dumb-a-crap, that's pretty clever. What is the repub version, Re-pubic-cons or some shit? How bout those In-deep-end-aunts? Or the Tee-potty? Hah this is fun |
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Post by machination on Dec 20, 2014 18:42:26 GMT -5
I'm sure you're going to sign on blueoval under another name with a different POLL about giving up something else. We all got your number, I had it many years ago, others are just catching on!! You IUAW guys come around every four years trying to get a feel for what the members are willing to give up. I can't speak for anyone else but the answer to your question is NO!!!! ^ ^ This Hey I'm not IUAW! You two guys are full of crap! I work on the line!  But seriously, I work on the line. Hey new guys, some of us old timers have got your backs! I want a raise too, but for ALL of us! SO how about this: Legacy gets a 2% base wage increase each year of next contract, we all get COLA back, and new hires automatically go up to 70% our pay plus 5% more for every additional six months they've worked until they reach top after 3 years? Plus other stuff we've lost. That sounds good right? |
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Post by machination on Dec 20, 2014 16:43:09 GMT -5
Only a liberal could do such a thing!! Isn't the word liberal way overused? I agree with you in principle, but that fox news/right-wing radio shepherd is riding your sheep-ass all the way to the cliff, and i promise you he's gonna jump off right before you go over the side LMAO BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAsplat! |
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Post by machination on Dec 20, 2014 6:40:44 GMT -5
Hahaha this thread is a riot. Bargainers parking turns into gate 0 rules equate to racial discrimination. You people are fucking crazy lmao. Bravo!
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Post by machination on Dec 13, 2014 19:39:48 GMT -5
My pleasure.
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Post by machination on Dec 13, 2014 19:33:26 GMT -5
Deleted some posts. You all fight too much. Man you were on that fast. I was adding some to mine and then POOF it was gone, lol. It's probably for the best. Look, I understand that some people hate my guts. OF COURSE I want a raise, cola back, and everything else we lost returned, in addition to some gains, and I would like to see 2-tier gone and pensions for the new people as well. OF COURSE I've had crappy committeemen before and I've been pissed off at IUAW and some of the chairpersons that we've had. I've told off committeemen before who were way wrong, and I've openly disagreed with a chairperson. But I've also known good people in union positions, people who really do care, even about the so-and-so who hates their guts. I see a benefit for US long term if we had more solidarity. I'm going to take up for the new people. I grew up with union family who believed that we stick together. It was reinforced when I hired into heavy truck at KTP around guys who got hired in the 70s and some that got hired at LAP in the 60s and transferred to KTP when it opened in 1969. I didn't expect my opinion to be shared by everybody, but it is my opinion. And I'm not the least bit sorry about it. That's all. |
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Post by machination on Dec 13, 2014 18:59:48 GMT -5
I don't believe that is the case at UPS. Don't know if that is Teamsters or just UPS. Does anybody know an UPS or Teamsters worker to verify this? I'm no expert, but a quick Google search showed that pensions have no effect on amount received from ssi What they're saying is that our PENSION decreases once SS kicks in, which you can see is true if you run a pension projection on the benefits website. As far as whether or not other companies pensions reduce once SS kicks in, I don't know. I would think that most companies would reduce it since the company would save money, unless they are very generous or can't due to some other arrangement. You can also select whether or not your spouse will take up receiving your pension if you predecease them, by a percentage. The more they can receive after you pass, the less you will receive while you live. You can take the full amount allowed to you if you like, but if you die then the spouse gets nothing and the payments stop. FWIW I will probably take the lower amount just to make sure my spouse will continue to get my pension once I pass. This is how I understood it from the benefits site. If I'm wrong about any of this I will stand corrected. |
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Post by machination on Dec 11, 2014 16:13:51 GMT -5
I was hoping this poll would provoke a good, strong discussion of this issue, and I'm glad it has. One thing is certain: We, as workers who only have the good aspects of what we have (the middle-class life) due to the efforts of decades of unionized negotiation and the blood, sweat, and tears of the parents and grandparents and beyond that came before us, who fought harder for what we have than we have, must be united and have each others backs. We don't want to be the generation of workers that failed to help the next. We must be united. That's what a real union and brotherhood, that everyone seems to say they want, is.
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Post by machination on Dec 11, 2014 16:00:15 GMT -5
From members like you saugerman. You would do far more damage to this union than any nepotistic, greedy, official could. At least they don't want to bust the union. Notice I said members, and not brothers. Anti-union people don't understand brotherhood. Since you have so much knowledge on the union and they way everything should be let me give you a little advise from a old man that has been around the block a time or two. Before you post anymore troll polls or post anymore stupid rants..look in the mirror and say over and over again till it takes...." I don't have to act like a whining bitch..I don't have to act like a whining bitch. When your done acting like a 10 year old who can't get his way come back and try again. The only one acting like a 10-year old whiny bitch is you saugerman. LOL, you absolutely hate my guts for taking up for the new hires. If I've said anything offensive to anyone it's been in response to the irrational hatred that's been thrown by them at me. People like to dish it out but, like you, can't take it. And I don't give a shit how many blocks you've been around buddy. You don't impress me, not even a little bit. And I don't have to get my way, I was just provoking a thoughtful discussion. It was only after the rage and insults and personal attacks thrown my way that I gave it right back. You're way too thin-skinned to handle someone who disagrees with you, so you resort to low blows and insults. If you're truly an old man you should be ashamed of yourself. You're not acting respectably. |
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Post by machination on Dec 11, 2014 15:44:11 GMT -5
A lot of people here don't want a union, which is why they support right-to-work legislation. If right-to-work ever came to Kentucky these same people would quit paying dues but would expect the same pay, benefits, and representation that the uaw provides, given to them for free, without having a pay a cent for the service of having someone else negotiate for them. They would become leeches to be subsidized by the members who continued to pay dues. This is exactly what these narrow-minded, anti-union, right-to-work people are. They may be members, but they aren't brothers and sisters, because they have no concept of brotherhood. But they would be very very good leeches on those of us that do. Speaking of brotherhood where were you sitting in the union hall when all of this went down may years ago?  I wasn't. It's called respect for those who came before us and appreciation for all that they'd gained for us. Obviously I wasn't one of the ones who came before me, that's just stupid saugerman. |
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Post by machination on Dec 11, 2014 15:42:29 GMT -5
Whoo every man and woman for ourselves!! We wouldn't need a union then! hey the powers that be in the union taught this....they have no problem voting themselves raises,union due increase,and hiring every loser worthless relative they can. So where do you think the It's all about me attitude came from? From members like you saugerman. You would do far more damage to this union than any nepotistic, greedy, official could. At least they don't want to bust the union. Notice I said members, and not brothers. Anti-union people don't understand brotherhood. |
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Post by machination on Dec 11, 2014 15:38:05 GMT -5
Whoo every man and woman for ourselves!! We wouldn't need a union then! A lot of people here don't want a union, which is why they support right-to-work legislation. If right-to-work ever came to Kentucky these same people would quit paying dues but would expect the same pay, benefits, and representation that the uaw provides, given to them for free, without having a pay a cent for the service of having someone else negotiate for them. They would become leeches to be subsidized by the members who continued to pay dues. This is exactly what these narrow-minded, anti-union, right-to-work people are. They may be members, but they aren't brothers and sisters, because they have no concept of brotherhood. But they would be very very good leeches on those of us that do. |
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Post by machination on Dec 11, 2014 12:11:18 GMT -5
I was hoping this poll would provoke a good, strong discussion of this issue, and I'm glad it has. One thing is certain: We, as workers who only have the good aspects of what we have (the middle-class life) due to the efforts of decades of unionized negotiation and the blood, sweat, and tears of the parents and grandparents and beyond that came before us, who fought harder for what we have than we have, must be united and have each others backs. We don't want to be the generation of workers that failed to help the next. We must be united. That's what a real union and brotherhood, that everyone seems to say they want, is.
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Post by machination on Dec 11, 2014 11:59:13 GMT -5
The KTP board seems more supportive of their union brothers than the LAP board. So much for "Happy Land"  |
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Post by machination on Dec 10, 2014 20:16:43 GMT -5
Justaworker, as a moderator would you please clarify for me and everyone else why you considered removing my thread which covered this topic on the LAP forum. By the way, the poll was posted in both forums so that people who only read the forum that pertains to their plant could comment and/or vote, which is precisely why we have a forum for each plant, and this is a major issue for all plants. I don't believe I've violated any forum rules that would warrant the removal of my thread or poll. Please clarify why it was considered for removal.
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Post by machination on Dec 10, 2014 20:11:18 GMT -5
Whoever police's this site should have this poll taken down!!!! I thought about it, but the 3rd grade logic behind it made me laugh. You, as a MODERATOR, thought about taken this thread down because you personally disagree with it? I'm just trying to understand your statement better. I'm curious to know what forum rule I broke that would warrant my thread being deleted by a moderator. I could be wrong, but I don't think it would be ethical if it was removed due to someone simply disagreeing with it. That would be censorship. Would you, please, clarify what in the original post would legitimately warrant the removal of the thread or poll. |
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<---ex-Metalman
